What is the purpose of "Guns in the News"?

[OpSomBlood]

No hostility, I just really am not sure what function this daily thread serves. It seems like a rather morbid "tradition" that is only contributed to by two people.

Are we supposed to read these stories about gunshot wounds and suddenly realize how EVIL guns are (you gotta capitalize EVIL to get the point across)?

Really, I'd like to know why you guys do it.

[MrBenchley]

1. Koresh forbid

that anybody ever see the true cost of letting the corrupt gun industry and the GOP set public policy.

[billbuckhead]

2. The daily death toll and decrease of civilization caused by lax

regulation of guns needs to noted. It's a unfortunate all the gun crime and terror goes unreported but life affirming people need to bear witness to losses.

[MrBenchley]

3. Exactly so....

The bullets for brains bunch doesn't mind that all these folks are terrorized, wounded or killed...they just want them to be terrorized, wounded or killed in silence.

[Randall]

7. Lax control of criminals too

Don't forget about the lax control of criminals, because that is the biggest problem we face. I don't care if people own guns, but the people should be locked up forever when they use them in criminal ways.

[Lamorat]

45. It's far easier

than the hundreds of millions of 'Guns not in the News' that should be posted.

[CO Liberal]

81. And They're Easier to Find.....

...than stories about people in the pro-gun leadership who make sense.

[el_gato]

87. Of course the dems lost congress and the Presidency

due to the gun grabber agenda

thus we have no leadership

I'm so glad Kerry isn't running around saying the types of things said by the gun grabbers in this forum. We've lost to many elections due this agenda.

[CO Liberal]

90. And America Has Lost Too Many Innocent People.....

...due to your agenda, IMHO.

(Edited to fix typo.)

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TX-RAT]

93. Come on CO

That means nothing to his agenda.

[el_gato]

97. What about all those car deaths!!! OH THE HORROR!!!!

but you don't give a fuck about them do you rat?

[TX-RAT]

100. When you've responded to as many accidents as i have.

Then we'll talk about car deaths.

[el_gato]

110. If your so up on car deaths then you should be more worried about them

than guns

[TX-RAT]

Actually I'm more worried about your agenda.

It seems cause a lot of death in its self.

[el_gato]

116. Just shows you don't care about the DEATHS

[Lamorat]

101. Explain..

I am against death of any type. I simply want to be free to protect my own life.

[TX-RAT]

105. And you are.

[Lamorat]

106. I am

due to my CCW, yes.

[TX-RAT]

112. What did you do before your CCW

Hide in a hole. I think not.

[Lamorat]

115. Felt a lot less secure

And was a lot less secure too.

[el_gato]

4. just someone's pet agenda

not to be taken seriously

[CO Liberal]

6. I've Never Taken Your Agenda Seriously, Gato

:-)

[el_gato]

21. Thanks for the favor, if this country is to be saved from fascism

we need people who actually care about their own freedom
so that leaves you on the sidelines

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[el_gato]

35. you're the one that apparently lives over at those gun wanker forums

I couldn't give a rats ass what a bunch of right wing dipshits have to say. How does that translate into some stupid ass asumption that people on the left should not have guns? It doesn't which makes me question your real agenda.

[MrBenchley]

39. Too fucking funny....

"I couldn't give a rats ass what a bunch of right wing dipshits have to say"
Gee, and just a few posts ago you were sweating and moaning about "fascism." Guess we see what a steaming pantload that was.

"which makes me question your real agenda."
Gee, and yet I'm not the one dancing around frantically to avoid saying anything pro-Democrat out loud. But then I happily and proudly support John Kerry's call for gun control and the current proposals in the Senate.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TX-RAT]

44. It's OK gato

Roscoe's just fine.

[el_gato]

49. a nice non-effort

[MrBenchley]

55. I think it's funny as hell...and TELLING

that gato is willing to do anything he can to keep this dark future from happening....EXCEPT say something even mildly pro-Democrat to his peers at the gun wanker forums.

[el_gato]

60. Ooohhhhh, the forums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your beloved forums

[MrBenchley]

62. Like I said, TELLING

[el_gato]

65. Not all of us are so obsessed with forums

but I do get a kick out of your posts

[MrBenchley]

69. I get an even bigger kick out of

how many excuses our "pro-gun democrats" sprout rather than say anything even slightly pro-Democrat over where the gun wankers actually hang out.

Says volumes about their courage...and their real agenda.

[el_gato]

73. Your assumption that all gun owners are the same is absurd

but it's the same binary thinking that bush engages in

[CO Liberal]

78. And Your Assumption....

...that everyone who favors gun control marches in lock-step is absolutely absurd.

[el_gato]

82. I don't hold that assumption contrary to you're false claims

Some support all gun confiscation
Some just support stricter laws
Some lie and say they support stricter laws but
as soon as those are passed they will push for more
And then some are individuals who have unique thoughts

The world is a complicated place but you wouldn't know it
from the anti-gun rhetoric thrown around here.

[MrBenchley]

79. And it's STILL telling....

"the same binary thinking that bush engages in"
Gee, and that fucking ignoramus is pro-gun all the way. Even more telling.

[el_gato]

83. But yet you engage in the exact type of rhetoric that he uses

very telling indeed

[MrBenchley]

89. No, gato...that would be YOU

[el_gato]

94. It's your binary thinking not mine

of course at this stage of the debate you start pulling out
jpegs instead of discussing the issues.
What's a matter, running out of talking points?

[Lamorat]

98. Hey

Don't bash on the jpg's. They just make our position look stronger when that's all he has.

[MrBenchley]

99. It's your agenda...and Chimpy's

and there's nothing in your "argument" worth a real response...

[el_gato]

104. Right wingers love your agenda benchy

it helps them win votes

[MrBenchley]

108. Gee, gato, and yet they've GOT your agenda....

[el_gato]

117. Oh, how wrong you are

Right wingers hate gun-owning democrats, since it blows thier one solid plank in the culture war.

[MrBenchley]

I'm right on the money....

You spout the same dishonest gun nut rhetoric that they do every day.

"Right wingers hate gun-owning democrats"
Gee, and yet on the gun wanker forums there's hardly a cross word said about them. They spend their time ranting and raving about gun control, exactly as you do.

[TX-RAT]

109. And you consider your rants as helping the Democratic party?

[el_gato]

113. I bet I do more to fight back than you do

and I don't go around spouting arguments that caused Tennessee to go for Bush.

[MrBenchley]

118. It sure doesn't include

saying anything pro-Democrat where gun nuts are apouting right wing horseshit.

"I don't go around spouting arguments that caused Tennessee to go for Bush."
Sure you do, gato...all you do is piss and moan about people grabbing your popgun. That's EXACTLY the same horseshit the NRA was telling its inbred supporters.

[el_gato]

121. yep it doesn't include trolling on right wing forums, unlike you

I don't have time to waste hanging out with right wing retards.
I don't know why you spend so much time doing it. It's bad for
your blood pressure and coming back here to vent doesn't help either.

[MrBenchley]

123. Gee gato, they're NOT SUPPOSED TO BE right wing forums....

but then who is really fooled by what's peeking out from unde that pro-gun sheet?

"I don't know why you spend so much time doing it."
Itr's funnier than the clowns at the circus...and it demonstrates what a dishonest puddle of pus the whole gun rights movement is. IN SPADES.

"coming back here to vent doesn't help either."
It sure doesn't help those trying to pretend those cesspools are havens of courtesy and reason...but then who was ever dumb enough to belive that malarkey?

[TX-RAT]

120. Lets see

3yrs army 69 to 72, wounded in battle, 1 purple heart
21yrs law enforcement
8 yrs Co Judge

Let's hear about your fight "gato".

[CO Liberal]

5. Pro-Gunners Used to Complain....

...that the first page of the J/PS board was being taken up with gun-related stories. So I suggested putting them all in a single daily thread. We've been diong this for about six months now and it seems to be working very well, but occasionally a pro-gunner complains about the daily threads.

I guess they want up to stick our heads in the sand and ignore the death and mayhem spread by guns, they way they have....

[TX-RAT]

8. Exactly

Its a non issue to them. They don't care how many lives are affected by gun violence.

[CO Liberal]

10. I've Noticed That

Many pro-gunners seem to not care how many people die, as long as they can get their grubby little hands on all the guns they want.

[Liberal Classic]

29. That's rather unfair

I get the same thing from the right wing in discussions of the prohibition of drugs. "You don't care about how many children die so long as you have your precious pot" sort of comment.

:(

[CO Liberal]

38. It's Actually True

People who are now tombstoned have actually posted those sentiments on this board.

[Liberal Classic]

42. I disagree. It's a patently unfair statement on many levels

Not the least of which is you shouldn't base your opinions of so many people including your's truly as being bloodthirsty savages based on a few loud-mouthed internet cranks.

[el_gato]

43. I guess you love the drug war too then CO

not surprising, given your love of paternalistic control

[TX-RAT]

46. Alright

Guns and drugs, now thats a combo.

[el_gato]

50. I guess you love the drug war too?

[TX-RAT]

53. Yea right

I've seen first hand the damage drugs cause.

[FeebMaster]

56. Hilarious as it is

all of our gun grabbers here in the dungeon, all of the ones from the US at least, are War on Drugs supporters.

[el_gato]

59. We all must be protected from ourselves. LOL!

[Retired AF Dem]

114. And yet they whine about the gun violence that

is caused by the war on drugs.

[el_gato]

119. So true, The drug war is a huge source of gun violence

talk about a holding two simultaneously contradictory positions.

[FeebMaster]

125. It's not contradictory.

Both positions are authoritarian. Plus, the gun violence from the drug war gives them something to whine about when they're crying about guns.

[MrBenchley]

64. Sure seems similar somedays....

Our "enthusiasts" sound like junkies willing to babble any lie as long as they can get their "fix"....

[el_gato]

66. Just more ad hominem attacks from benchly

sadly the gun grabbing drug warriors won't be happy until the whole country is one big prison

[CO Liberal]

84. I Don't Use Drugs, and I Don't Use Guns

And I believe that reasonable controls are appropriate for both.

[el_gato]

92. Do you think the drug war has been resonable?

you ever heard of Tulia?


The drug war has been a complete catastrophe not to mention
totally fucking fake.

[CO Liberal]

111. Do You Think The Gun Situation In This Country is Reasonable?

You ever heard of Columbine?

[MrBenchley]

57. Jeepers....

it sure is funny that your new found concern for politeness and courtesy seems to have evaporated while gato is hysterically spewing his rubbish....

[el_gato]

14. Wait till the brownshirts march, then you'll see gun violence

as soon as the general populace fully unarms itself you can kiss your freedom buh-bye.

But then we'll here the usual refrain of "it couldn't happen here!"

Never mind the fact that Georgia has been turned into a fucking police state right this very moment.

Yep, Orwell was right the future looks like the bottom of a boot and it's primarily because people behave like sheep instead of free individuals.

Luckily there are atleast a few vigilant people left in this country
or we would already have gone over a cliff.

[el_gato]

9. Pro-fascists will spew the gun grabber agenda

until we're all prisoners in our own country

The one thing the gun-grabbers and the rethuglicans have in common is the constant effort to turn this country into a bunch of sheep living in a prison.

The old adage is true: Politicians love unarmed peasants

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

12. You'll notice el gato never has word one to say

over on the gun wanker forums where those "rethuglicans" he wants to scream about here actually DO hang out.

But then it's blindingly obvious how desperately our "pro-gun democrats" swerve out of their way to say anything in the least bit pro-Democrat.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

24. And gato hasn't got shit to say to actual Republicans

on those gun wanker forums.

[el_gato]

26. cry me a river, you obviously give a shit or you wouldn't be huffing

so sad for you, ha ha

[el_gato]

61. The gun grabber agenda cost us the Presidency

[MrBenchley]

71. Blame pro-gun Jeb Bush

or for that matter, you might blame the lying fuckwits at the NRA.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CO Liberal]

20. WRONG!!!!!

I await your retraction.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CO Liberal]

27. You're The One Who Whines

Every time someone posts something that goes against your agenda.

[el_gato]

32. how cute, projection makes you feel better

I don't post in the gungeon very often but every now and then I get a kick out of seeing the gun-grabbers get all worked up because not all of us want to bend over and lick boots.

I do get a laugh out of your whining though. Thanks.

[TX-RAT]

13. Sure a lot of unarmed peasants in the US....."NOT"

Probably more guns than people.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TX-RAT]

25. Call me

When the Federal government confiscates it's first weapon. Then we'll talk about martial law.

[el_gato]

30. you obviously don't pay attention

does pine ridge ring a bell?

Killing American Indians for protecting their own land.

You don't seem to read very much.
Nor have you ever seemed to look into the history of
organizations like the FBI.

[TX-RAT]

36. Wasn't at Pine Ridge

Never killed a American Indian.
Never a member of the FBI
Whats your point?

[el_gato]

37. what's your point?

I don't give a shit what you've done.
You asked a question about the feds and come back
with a non-sequitor about your personal activities.

[TX-RAT]

40. Have they confiscated even one weapon yet " gato "

[el_gato]

47. Look at some facts

Here's some info for you about pine ridge:

"Well, you know what it was like," she started. "Them FBIs was every place, and they never come alone. Always three, four, five cars of 'em, all dressed like soldiers, carrying guns, running around like they owned the place.

"I got shoved around by them many times. Many times they come here, asking questions about people, pushing, threatening, pointing guns. Even at the kids. Four and five and six years old, had guns pointed at them. "One time, I was in a sweat, and them FBIs come, ripped open the lodge in the middle of a ceremony! It was cold. All we had was towels. They pointed their big guns into the sweat lodge and ordered everybody out. I don't know if they were looking for someone or just wanted to be mean. But they had no respect for our ceremonies. They come in, pointed their guns, laughed. If they just wanted to freeze naked women in the snow, at least they should have waited until we finished praying."

This was not the only incident of religious harassment I would hear, nor was it the only story of the FBI's fondness for cold as a weapon. Oscar Bear Runners son had been forced to take off his T-shirt and stand, rigid, in ten degree below zero weather until he was frostbitten.

We heard more horror stories as we traveled around the reservation the following days-about the Goons shooting at old people driving down the road, about the FBI invading Oglala as if it were a battle front in Vietnam. Everyone had lived in constant fear of death. So many years later, the trauma was still fresh. Young adults pulled up their shirts and pant legs, showing us wounds they received as children-from bullets that scared their arms, legs, and chests. People as exhibits...



AIM Casualties on Pine Ridge, 1973-1976

4.17.73-Frank Clearwater-AIM member killed by heavy machine gun round at Wounded Knee. No investigation.

4.23.73-Between eight and twelve individuals (names unknown) packing supplies into wounded Knee were intercepted by Goons and vigilantes. None were ever heard from again. Former Rosebud Tribal President Robert Burnette and U.S. Justice Department Solicitor General Kent Frizzell conducted unsuccessful search for a mass grave after Wounded Knee siege. No further investigation.

4.27.73-Buddy Lamont-AIM member hit by M16 fire at Wounded Knee, Bled to death while pinned down by fire. No investigation.

6.19.73-Clarence Cross-AIM supporter shot to death in ambush by Goons. Although assailants were identified by eyewitnesses, brother Vernal Cross-wounded in ambush-was briefly charged with crime. No further investigation.

4.14.73-Priscilla White Plume-AIM supporter killed at Manderson by Goons. No investigation.

7.30.73-Julius Bad Heart Bull-AIM supporter killed at Oglala AIM supporter killed at Oglala by "person or persons unknown." No investigation.

9.22.73-Melvin Spider-AIM member killed Porcupine, South Dakota. No investigation.

9.23.73-Philip Black Elk-AIM supporter killed when his house exploded. No investigation.

10.5.73-Aloysius Long Soldier-AIM member killed at Kyle, S.D. by Goons.No investigation.

10.10.73-Phillip Little Crow-AIM supporter beaten to death by Goons at Pine Ridge. No investigation.

10.17.73-Pedro Bissonette-Oglala Sioux Civil Rights Organization (OSCRO) organizer and AIM supporter assassinated by BIA Police/Goons. Body removed from Pine Ridge jurisdiction prior to autopsy by government contract coroner. No investigation.

11.20.73-Allison Fast Horse-AIM supporter shot to death near Pine Ridge by "unknown assailants." No investigation.

1.17.74-Edward Means, Jr.-AIM member found dead in Pine Ridge alley, beaten. No investigation.

2.27.74-Edward Standing Soldier-AIM member killed near Pine Ridge by "party r parties unknown." No investigation.

4.19.74-Roxeine Roark-AIM supporter killed at Porcupine by "unknown assailants." Investigation open, still "pending."

9.7.74-Dennis LeCompte-AIM member killed at Pine Ridge by Goons. No investigation.

9.11.74-Jackson Washinton Cutt-AIM member killed at Parmalee by "unknown individuals." Investigation still "ongoing."

9.16.74-Robert Reddy-AIM member killed at Kyle by gunshot. No investigation.

11.16.74-Delphine Crow Dog-sister of AIM spiritual leader Leonard Crow Dog. Beaten by BIA police and left lying in a field. Died from "exposure." No investigation.

11.20.74-Elaine Wagner-AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by "person or persons unknown." No investigation.

12.25.75-Floyd S. Binais-AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by Goons. No investigation.

12.28.74-Yvette Loraine Lone Hill-AIM supporter killed at Kyle by "unknown party or parties." No investigation.

1.5.75-Leon L. Swift Bird-AIM member killed at Pine Ridge by Goons. Investigation still "ongoing."

3.1.75-Martin Montileaux-killed in a Scenic, S.D. bar. AIM leader Richard Marshall later framed for his murder. Russell Means also charged and acquitted.

3.20.75-Stacy Cotter-shot to death in an ambush at Manderson. No investigation.

3.21.75-Edith Eagle Hawk and her two children-AIM supporter killed in an automobile accident after being run off the run by a white vigilante, Albert Coomes. Coomes was also killed in the accident. Goon Mark Clifford identified as having also been in the Coomes car, escaped. Investigation closed without questioning Clifford.

3.27.75-Jeanette Bissonette-AIM supporter killed by sniper at Pine Ridge. Unsuccessful attempt to link AIM members to murder; no other investigation.

3.30.75-Richard Eagle-grandson of AIM supporter Gladys Bissonette killed while playing with loaded gun kept in the house as protection from Goon attacks.

4.4.75-Hilda R. Good Buffalo-AIM supporter stabbed to death at Pine Ridge by Goons. No investigation.

4.4.75-Jancita Eagle Deer-AIM member beaten and run over with automobile. Last seen in the company of provocateur Douglass Durham. No investigation.

5.20.75-Ben Sitting Up-AIM member killed at Wanblee by "unknown assailants." No investigation.

6.1.75-Kenneth Little-AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by Goons. Investigation still "pending."

6.15.75-Leah Spotted Elk-AIM supporter at Pine Ridge by Goons. No investigation.

6.26.75-Joseph Stuntz Killsright-AIM member killed by FBI sniper during Oglala firefight. No investigation.

7.12.75-James Briggs Yellow-heart attack caused by FBI air assault on his home. No investigation.

7.25.75-Andrew Paul Stewart-nephew of AIM spiritual leader Leonard Crow Dog, killed by Goons on Pine Ridge. No investigation.

8.25.75-Randy Hunter-AIM supporter killed at Kyle by "party or parties unknown." Investigation still "ongoing."

9.9.75-Howard Blue Bird-AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by Goons. No investigation.

9.10.75-Jim Little-AIM stomped to death by Goons in Oglala. No investigation.

10.26.75-Olivia Binais-AIM supporter killed in Porcupine by "person or persons unknown." Investigation still "open."

10.26.75-Janice Black Bear-AIM supporter killed at Manderson by Goons. No investigation.

10.27.75-Michelle Tobacco-AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by "unknown persons." No investigation.

12.6.75-Carl Plenty Arrows,Sr.-AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by "unknown persons." No investigation.

12.6.75-Frank LaPointe-AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by Goons. No investigation.

2.76-Anna Mae Pictou Aquash-AIM organizer assassinated on Pine Ridge.. FBI involved in attempt to conceal cause of death. Ongoing attempt to establish "AIM involvement" in murder. Key FBI personnel never deposed. Coroner never deposed.

1.5.76-Lydia Cut Grass-AIM member killed at Wounded Knee by Goons. No investigation.

1.30.76-Byron DeSersa-OSCRO organizer and AIM supporter assassinated by Goons in Wanblee. Arrests by local authorities resulted in two Goons-Dale Janis and Charlie Winters-serving two years of five year sentences for "manslaughter." Charges dropped against two Goon leaders, Manny Wilson and Chuck Richards, on the basis of "self-defense" despite DeSersa having been unarmed when shot to death.

2.6.76-Lena R. Slow Bear-AIM supporter killed at Oglala by Goons. No investigation.

3.1.76-Hobart Horse-AIM member beaten, shot, and repeatedly run over with automobile at Sharp's Corners. No investigation.

3.26.76-Cleveland Reddest-AIM member killed at Kyle by "person or persons unknown." No investigation.

4.28.76-Betty Jo Dubray-AIM supporter beaten to death at Martin, S.D. No investigation.

5.6.76-Marvin Two Two-Aim supporter shot to death at Pine Ridge. No investigation.

5.9.76-Juia Pretty Hips-AIM supporter killed at Pine Ridge by "unknown assailants." No investigation.

5.24.76-Sam Afraid of Bear-AIM supporter shot to death at Pine Ridge. Investigation "ongoing."

6.4.76-Kevin Hill-AIM supporter killed at Oglala by "party or parties unknown." Investigation "still open."

7.3.76-Betty Means-AIM member killed at Pine Ridge by Goons. No investigation.

7.31.76-Sandra Wounded Foot-AIM supporter killed at Sharp's Corners by "unknown assailants." No investigation.

It should be noted that, using the preliminary figure of only 61 homicides of AIM members and supporters during the same period, researchers Bruce Johansen and Roberto Maestas, in their book "Wasichu:The Continuing Indian Wars (New York:Monthly Review Press, 1979, pp. 83-4), arrived at the following analysis of its implications: Using only documented political deaths, the yearly murder rate on Pine Ridge Reservation between 1, 1973 and March 1, 1976, was 170 per 100,000. By comparison, Detroit, the reputed murder capital of the United States, had a rate of 20.2 per 100,000...An estimated 20,000 persons were murdered in the United States during 1974. In a nation of 200 million persons, a murder rate comparable with that of Pine Ridge between 1973 and 1976 would have left 340,000 persons dead for political reasons alone in one year; 1.32 million in three...The political murder rate at Pine Ridge between March 1, 1973, and March 1, 1976, was almost equivalent to that in Chile during the three years after a military coup supported by the United States deposed and killed President Salvador Allende...Based on Chile's population of 10 million, the estimated fifty thousand persons killed in three years of political repression in Chile (1973-1976) roughly paralleled the murder rate at Pine Ridge.


http://www.dickshovel.com/Aim.Pine.html

[TX-RAT]

51. Who fired the first shot?

[el_gato]

52. Go do your own research, I'm not your mama

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

[TX-RAT]

54. Nice dodge

Who fired the first shot "gato"

[el_gato]

58. Nice non-effort

You tell me all about this whole affair since you seem to know everything about it.

Why was the FBI running all over Indian land?
Why were people mysteriously being blown up and why was the FBI refusing to investigate any of these crimes?

You seem to act like you know everything about it so share you wisdom.
LOL!

[TX-RAT]

63. Who fired the first shot " gato "

You seem to bee the historian here, I'm just asking a question.

[el_gato]

67. You tell me

do you know?

[TX-RAT]

68. Obviously not

Thats why i asked the question.

[el_gato]

70. More information

Excerpts from THE COVERT WAR AGAINST NATIVE AMERICANS
- by Ward Churchill

There is a little considered aspect of the covert means through which the United States maintains its perpetual drive to exert control over the territory and resources of others. It concerns, however, matters internal rather than external to the geographical corpus of the U.S. itself. It seems appropriate to quote a man deeply involved in the struggle for African liberation, Kwame Toure (formerly known as Stokley Carmichael). In a speech delivered at the Yellow Thunder demonstrations in Rapid City, South Dakota, on October 1, 1982, he said: "We are engaged in a struggle for the liberation of ourselves as people. In this, there can be neither success nor even meaning unless the struggle is directed toward the liberation of our land, for a people without land cannot be liberated. We must reclaim the land, and our struggle is for the land - first, foremost, and always. We are people of the land."


The Propaganda War

In pursuing such a policy the U.S. power elite has replicated the tactics and conditions more typically imposed on its colonies abroad. First, there is the matter of "grey and black propaganda" through which U.S. covert agencies, working hand in glove with the mainstream media, distort or fabricate information concerning the groups they have targeted. The function of such a campaign is always to deny with plausibility public sympathy or support to the groups in question, to isolate them and render them vulnerable to physical repression or liquidation.

As concerns AIM, grey propaganda efforts have often centered upon contentions (utterly unsubstantiated) that the "Indian agenda" is to dispossess non-Indians of the home-owner, small farmer or rancher type living within the various treaty areas.

In terms of black propaganda, there have been a number of highly publicized allegations of violence which, once disproven, were allowed to die without further fanfare. This has been coupled to "leaks" from official government sources that AIM is a "terrorist" organization.

The propaganda efforts have, in large part, yielded the desired effect, souring not only the average American citizen's perception of AIM, but - remarkably - that of the broader U.S. internal opposition as well. The latter have been so taken in upon occasion as to parrot the government/corporate line that Indian land claims are "unrealistic", "not feasible", and ultimately a "gross unfairness to everyone else".

http://sisis.nativeweb.org/sov/covert.html

[el_gato]

72. Even more

Those in power in the United States understand these principles very well. They know that even under their own laws aboriginal title precedes and preempts other claims, unless transfer of title to the land was is or agreed to by the original inhabitants. They know that the only such agreements to which they can make even a pretense are those deriving from some 371 treaties entered into by the U.S. with various Indian nations indigenous to North America.
http://sisis.nativeweb.org/sov/covert.html
Those in power in America know very well that, in consolidating its own national landbase, the United States has not only violated every single one of those treaties, but that it remains in a state of perpetual violation to this day. Thus, they know they have no legal title - whether legality be taken to imply U.S. law, international law, Indian law, natural law, or all of these combined - to much of what they now wish to view as the territoriality of the United States proper.

Finally, they are aware that to acquire even a semblance of legal title, title which stands a chance of passing the informed scrutiny of both the international community and much of its own citizenry, the U.S. must honor its internal treaty commitments, at the very least. Herein lies the dilemma: In order to do this, the U.S. would have to return much of its present geography to the various indigenous nations holding treaty-defined and reserved title to it (and sovereignty over it). The only alternative is to continue the violation of the most fundamental rights of Native Americans while pretending the issues do not exist. Of course, this is the option selected - both historically and currently - by U.S. policy makers.

[TX-RAT]

74. Your just not going to answer the question, are you.

Who fired the first shot. I'll just assume you don't have a clue.

[el_gato]

75. I think the answer is clear if you would just read the information

Can you guess what it is?

I'll give you one guess.

[TX-RAT]

76. Already have.

[FeebMaster]

77. Does it matter?

To you, I mean. If a government employee fired the first shot, do you think the people at Wounded Knee were justified in defending themselves?

[TX-RAT]

80. I just asked who fired the first shot

If your doing an investigation that might be an important question.

[el_gato]

85. Are you doing an investigation then?

You don't seem to be trying to hard.

[TX-RAT]

88. Done a lot of investigations there " gato "

Oh wait, thats another question. Your batting 1000 on non answered questions.

[el_gato]

96. I don't serve your agenda, you have to engage in your own

Now, take one big ass guess as to who fired the first shot!

[TX-RAT]

103. Have you ever done anything other than talk, "gato"

Complaining and not doing anything about it is not much of an agenda.

[el_gato]

107. changing the subject now, eh rat.

What's a matter afraid of seeing the truth about this country?

Afraid of seeing the real agenda of those in power. Maybe if you
took a hard look at what is really going on you would understand
why this country is in such bad shape.

[TX-RAT]

122. Ready to answer the question "gato"

[CO Liberal]

86. And You Can Bring a Pro-Gunner to Facts.....

...but you can't make him think.

:-)

[TX-RAT]

95. Or answer the question

[el_gato]

102. Have you gotten a clue yet rat?

I'm trying to help you learn something here but I do everything for you.
Have you even ventured a guess as to who fired the first shot?
Maybe you should try at least once.

[TX-RAT]

124. But your the self proclaimed historian "gato"

That can't answer a question.

[FeebMaster]

34. Personally I'm not too worried.

The gun grabbers haven't even been able to get their useless assault weapons ban extended. How are they going to get guns confiscated at the federal level? They wouldn't even know where to start.

That's not to say the AWB won't be renewed or anything. Ironically, if it does pass, it will be yet another Republican signing yet another gun control law. The gun grabbers will love it, of course, but then it wasn't that long ago that they were pimping for John McCain to be Kerry's vice president.

[TX-RAT]

48. Not worried either.

( How are they going to get guns confiscated at the federal level? They wouldn't even know where to start.)

One of the few times we agree.

[Romulus]

15. I dunno

Any object can be misued, as was seen in my posts on "baseball bats in the news." Sure was a lack of interest in the death toll generated by those "weapons of war."



(notice the early "baseball bat" in the left hand)

[MrBenchley]

31. Oooooh! A toy!

Well now I'm convinced (snicker).

[PopeyeII]

17. Technique

The technique/motive is better known as "dancing in the blood of the dead". There have been murders using golf clubs, frozen fish and knifes? Do we hear of excess reporting of them? It's just cut and paste drivel from the agenda driven media.

[OpSomBlood]

19. As it was said in Bowling for Columbine:

Paraphrasing the news cameraman:

"Given a choice between a story about a drowned child and a story about a gunshot victim, we cover the gunshot victim every time. Guns equal ratings."

[Liberal Classic]

33. CO Liberal posted the answer

It's a method for combining topics under one section header.

If you read the top of the post, you'll notice that pro- or anti- posts are both allowed so long as they are current.

I support this sort of thing as Justice/Public Safety is already full to the gills with gun threads, but there is so much more to either justice or public safety than simply this issue.

[Wickerman]

126. Looks like its asked and answered

locking before the folks in the Health/Education/Social Policy forum feel the flames through the floor.