GUNS IN THE NEWS June 24, 2004

[Scout]

Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:

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[Scout]

1. 8 people wounded in Hart Plaza shootings --Detroit

http://www.freep.com/news/locway/shoot24_20040624.htm

Melee erupts in crowd as Freedom Festival begins

A Hart Plaza packed with fireworks fans became a bloody crime scene Wednesday night after gunfire ripped through downtown Detroit's International Freedom Festival.

Four men and four women were shot at the intersection of Woodward and Jefferson in the minutes after the 46th annual Marshall Field's Target fireworks began popping just after 10 p.m., police said.

<snip>

Reports that one victim died at the scene were premature, said Detroit Police Chief Ella Bully-Cummings late Wednesday. She said at least three people were in critical condition, and a relative of another victim said he was in stable condition. The conditions of the others were uncertain.

The gunfire sent crowds rushing from the intersection as the fireworks continued booming overhead. Police said an argument broke out, a man pulled out a gun and started shooting, then he dropped the gun and ran.

The victims appeared to be bystanders watching the show who were not specifically targeted.
---------------------------------------------------

over sunglasses, for fuck's sake ...

No info yet if the shooter legally owned the gun, or has a criminal background. I'll try to follow up if I get more info, or other DUers feel free to add updates.

[iverglas]

2. nice

It's called the International Freedom Festival because it is a Canada-US (Windsor-Detroit) affair. (It isn't actually "Detroit's".)

Canada Day is July 1 (the anniversary of the 1867 Confederation), US Independence Day is July 4. Border towns have a history of cooperative/coordinated celebrations.

http://www.woodwardheritage.com/events/freedom.festival.html

The International Freedom Festival is the world's most extensive international festival and honors the long-standing friendship and freedom that has existed since the founding of Canada and the United States. The celebration officially lasts 13 days and brings together an astounding assortment of experiences for people of all ages including musical performances, art exhibits, food, carnival rides and the largest annual fireworks display in North America.

Good time and place for a shoot-out. Why not invite the neighbours over and impress 'em with a little local hospitality, eh?

Apart altogether from the horrible tragedy this is for the people directly affected, do we really not suppose that this sort of thing might just have some effect on things like the tourist industry? One more casualty of the firearms free-for-all south of that border.

[slackmaster]

6. A couple of gentle wagers

1. The shooter was intoxicated.

2. The shooter did not have a licence to carry the gun concealed in public.

Make that three gentle wagers.

3. The shooter has a criminal background.

[CO Liberal]

7. But Don't Forget The Following Facts

1. The shooter used a gun.

2. The shooter did not use a baseball bat, swimming pool, harpoon, sword, or any other object mentioned on this board lately in an attempt to deflect attention away from this country's gun problem.

3. Regardless of whether the shooter was intoxicated, not carrying the gun legally, or had a criminal background, his victims lives were endangered by his actions with a gun.

[slackmaster]

8. Yes, it's a tragedy

A life wasted, and all those laws and good intentions didn't prevent it from happening.

[MrBenchley]

16. And plenty of bad intentions DID help it...

starting with the RKBA movement and the corrupt gun industry...

[Lamorat]

15. Would you feel better

if he was stabbed?

[CO Liberal]

23. I Would Feel Better....

...if this society was less violent. Guns just make it easier to inflict violence on others.

[Scout]

33. would not have been 8 wounded

from one knife, I'm willing to bet...

you have at least a chance of defending yourself against a knife attack, where the attacker must get close enough to you to risk injury themselves. I'm pretty sure your average attacker is NOT skilled at knife throwing, and therefore must risk his own life/limb to hurt me.

any asshole with a gun can wreak much more havok, and from a greater distance than can any asshole with a knife.

And just to clarify, no one was killed, thank Goddess.

[RoeBear]

49. Since you aren't a gun banner...

...what law would you suggest that would have stopped this person?

If he had no access to a gun do you think nothing would have happened that night?

[CO Liberal]

51. If he had no access to a gun...

...eight people would not be recovering from gunshot wounds today.

[RoeBear]

61. No, but...

...there may be even more people recovering from being run over. This is Motor City you know.

[iverglas]

9. another sure bet

The shooter was on the US side of the US/Canada border.

And of course: the victims were on the US side of the US/Canada border.

Inquiring minds might wonder what factors were at work in this phenomenon: that in the course of an international, cross-border event, gunfire broke out on one side of the border and not on the other.

Canada has drunks ... Canada has people who aren't licensed to carry concealed firearms in public ... Canada has criminals ...

[RoeBear]

50. Please explain...

...this: "Canada has drunks ... Canada has people who aren't licensed to carry concealed firearms in public ... Canada has criminals ..."

[CO Liberal]

52. And Fewer People Get Shot In Canada

How do YOU explain that, RoeBear????

:shrug:

[RoeBear]

55. First you'll...

...have to tell me what Iver was going for.

[CO Liberal]

58. I Did

Re-read the title to my Post #52.

[RoeBear]

60. To the best of my knowledge...

...Canada has lower rates of murder with all instruments. Knives, clubs, garrots, so it's not just gun ownership in play there.

[iverglas]

67. concealing multitudes of sins

Canada has lower rates of murder with all instruments. Knives, clubs, garrots, so it's not just gun ownership in play there.

http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/research/other_docs/notes/canus/default.asp
(These figures are slightly out of date, but not wildly outdated.)

There are more than 30 times more firearms in the United States than in Canada.

There are 9 times as many people in the US as in Canada. That makes more than 3 times as many firearms per capita in the US as in Canada.

(Some people seem to be under the impression that Michael Moore has said that firearms ownership rates are the same in Canada and the US. If he did, he seems to be wrong. Although it's entirely possible that firearms owners have more firearms on average in the US than in Canada.)

A much higher proportion of homicides in the United States involve firearms. For 1987-96, on average, 65% of homicides in the U.S. involved firearms, compared to 32% for Canada.


Firearm homicide rates are 8.1 times higher in the United States than in Canada.

Handgun homicide rates are 15.3 times higher in the United States than in Canada.

Rates for non-firearm homicides are nearly 2 times higher in the United States than in Canada.

So ... saying "Canada has lower rates of murder with all instruments" doesn't quite accurately depict the situation, does it? I mean, it's not like Canada has half as many murders overall, and half as many firearms murders. Nooo. Nowhere anywhere near. See the pretty picture:



Any more theories?

[RoeBear]

68. My statement seemed to be VERY accurate...

"saying "Canada has lower rates of murder with all instruments" doesn't quite accurately depict the situation,"

Per your chart: Canada has about half the rate of US non-firearm homicides. Assuming Canadians have pretty easy access to knives and clubs I will state again that there is something else going on in Canada to account for their lowered rates of homicide.

[iverglas]

72. and I will again state

Canada has about half the rate of US non-firearm homicides. Assuming Canadians have pretty easy access to knives and clubs I will state again that there is something else going on in Canada to account for their lowered rates of homicide.

... that what you actually need to find is something that explains how or why Canada has ONE FIFTEENTH THE RATE of US handgun homicides when it has ONE HALF the rate of non-firearm homicides.

Like I said ... we got drunks, we got criminals, we got drunken criminals ... and I can't think of anything that would explain why our drunks, criminals and drunken criminals would kill somebody half as often without firearms as the ones in the US do, but one fifteenth as often with handguns as the ones in the US do.

Oh, oh -- maybe I can.

Our drunks, criminals and drunken criminals are just a reaally, reallly lot stupider than the ones in the US. They're several times more willing to expend pointless energy and to risk injury at the hands of defending victims, or the failure of their homicidal little plans, than their USAmerican counterparts are. And that makes them quite a lot stupider. That must be it. Am I right here?

[Scout]

77. yup, that's it

Canadians are dumber than US Americans!
:evilgrin:

[iverglas]

65. well first

... before I go to a whole lot of pointless effort ... did you try reading the post I was responding to?

[Scout]

70. update

from TV news at 6pm.

Nine people were wounded, not eight. One was near death, but fortunately survived.

The fight started over a woman, not sunglasses, and one man was knocked to the ground. He drew a 9 millimeter handgun and got up firing.

Police have received over 30 tips from witnesses, about 5 of which seemed to be good solid leads.

Shooter is still at large.

[iverglas]

73. old news ...

... but the report on the Windsor Star web page is here:

http://www.canada.com/windsor/windsorstar/news/story.html?id=ee8d6ce3-71f4-4c3f-a701-162d2fe1f859

The shooting marred what was
otherwise a successful fireworks
night. An estimated one million
people took in the show on both
sides of the border.

Windsor police reported no
problems related to the fireworks
crowd.

[Scout]

76. thanks for the link

You know, I've lived close enough to Detroit/Windsor all my life to have gone to the Freedom Festival, and have never done so. I always wanted to get a hotel room on the river to watch the fireworks.

Maybe next year I'll finally do it, but cross over to Windsor and watch from there.

[CO Liberal]

3. Jury asks if gun activist will know where they live (CO)

People like Rick Stanley make all gun activists look bad. The sad thing is he doesn't realize how his actions are working against the advancement of his agenda. - Wayne

* * * * *

Jury asks if gun activist will know where they live

By Hector Gutierrez, Rocky Mountain News
June 24, 2004

BRIGHTON - The jury deliberating the case against Rick E. Stanley asked the judge a rare question Wednesday that didn't sit well with the gun rights activist.

"Does Mr. Stanley have the names and addresses of the jury?" was the question posed to retired Supreme Court Justice Joseph R. Quinn, who is presiding at the trial.

<snip>

Adams County prosecutors and Stanley's defense lawyers agreed to let the judge tell the jurors that Stanley will have access only to their names, not their addresses.

<snip>

Stanley, 49, is on trial on two felony counts of attempting to influence a public servant. He is accused of sending Thornton Municipal Judge Charles J. Rose and 17th Judicial District Judge Donald W. Marshall Jr. a "notice of order" demanding that they reverse his conviction on a weapons violation or face arrest by the Mutual Defense Pact Militia and a trial for treason.

<more>

http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_2986283,00.html

[MrSandman]

25. Rick Stanley makes...

Nearly anyone else look good...

[CO Liberal]

31. One Thing We Can Agree On, MrSandman!!!

:-)

[CO Liberal]

4. One dead in Dickey County shooting (ND)

More death and mayhem in the heartland, thanks to the availability of guns. - Wayne

* * * * *

One dead in Dickey County shooting

Associated Press

OAKES, N.D. - A shooting in Dickey County left one person dead and one injured, and a suspect was in custody, authorities said Wednesday.

The superintendent of the school in Edgeley told The Forum newspaper in Fargo that the person who was killed was a recent graduate.

Authorities released few details.

"One person is dead as a result of the shooting," State's Attorney Gary Neuharth said. "Another person was shot but the wound is not life-threatening.

"A male is in custody. He's going to be charged with murder," Neuharth said.

<more>

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/state/8995744.htm

[CO Liberal]

5. Bronx man charged in deaths of girlfriend, her visiting sister

Another family shattered by a gun. - Wayne

* * * * *

Bronx man charged in deaths of girlfriend, her visiting sister

June 23, 2004, 7:15 PM EDT

NEW YORK -- A Bronx man who shot his girlfriend and her sister to death during an argument over the sister's extended visits has been charged with first-degree murder, prosecutors said Wednesday.

Edelmiro Cesareo, 30, fled to Puerto Rico after the June 8 shootings and was arrested there in the southern city of Arroyo and flown back to New York last week, Bronx District Attorney Robert Johnson said.

Prosecutors said the bloodshed happened in the Throgs Neck apartment Cesareo shared with Loreen Merchan, 32.

According to Johnson, Cesareo was angry over the lengthy visits of Merchan's sister, Yasmin Merchan, 27, of Waterbury Conn., and held a gun to her head.

<more>

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ny--sisterskilled0623jun23,0,3836993.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire

[Romulus]

11. NYC has gun registration and licensing

with hefty fees for both ($300 for three year license)

Any bets this guy DIDN'T have a license or registered firearm?

[CO Liberal]

12. It's Easy to Get A Gun There

All you have to do is drive over the George Washington Bridge or take the Lincoln or Holland Tunnel, and you're in New Jersey.

What we really need is nation-wide gun purchase standards. And an up-to-date database of those who are ineligible for gun purchases.

[MrBenchley]

14. Good thing the Republicans and the corrupt gun industry

have done everything they could to bypass and subvert those laws, eh?

[Lamorat]

17. Yeah..

Blame anyone but the criminal.

[MrBenchley]

18. Lam-O-Rat

[PopeyeII]

20. Summary of New Jersey Gun Laws (For information only.)

The Long Form:
http://www.firearmslawcenter.com/content/newjersey.asp

Reader's Digest Edition:
http://www.educatetheusa.com/newjersey/gunlaws.html

NEW JERSEY'S GUN LAWS


Handgun ownership: restricted, firearms identification card required

Rifle and Shotgun ownership: restricted, firearms identification card required

Semi-automatic "assault weapon" ownership: highly restricted, all military-pattem semi-automatic weapons are banned
from entering the state

Machine Gun Ownership: individual ownership of machine guns is prohibited

Firearm law uniformity: firearm laws are uniformly strict throughout the state

Concealed carry: license required; application through local police, issuance through state agency, valid throughout
state; no reciprocity for nonresidents; New Jersey will issue permits to non-residents

Vehicle carry and transportation: firearms may not be carried in a vehicle without a firearm identification card.

Travelers to New Jersey should be prepared for highly restrictive laws regarding the carry and ownership of
firearms. Handgun, rifle and shotgun possession requires a firearm identification card. This card is also required for
vehicle transport of firearms. Strict exceptions (home to place of repair, etc.) exist which allow the transport of
unloaded and securely cased firearms in a vehicle's trunk without a card. However, general transport within the state
is prohibited. Travelers who are not attending a recognized shooting event or engaged in lawful hunting should leave all
firearms at home unless they are engaged in a through journey (see introduction).

Open or concealed carry of a firearm on one's person without a license to carry is strictly prohibited. New Jersey,
unlike most other states, does not differentiate between open or concealed carry. Both methods of personal carry are
prohibited unless one is engaged in a hunting related activity in an area officially sanctioned for such pursuit. Issuance
of licenses to carry concealed is permitted for New Jersey residents through application to their local chief of police.
Nonresidents may apply directly to the Superintendent of State Police. However, such licenses are granted on a highly
discretionary basis with no reciprocity available for non-residents with carry permits from their home states. Citizens
have found it almost impossible to obtain one absent a "compelling" need.

Personal ownership of military-pattern semi-automatic weapons and fullauto machine guns is prohibited. Travelers
should take care to leave all such weapons behind when traveling to New Jersey. However, through travel, with no
intrastate stops, is permitted if the weapons are secured in the trunk.

[slackmaster]

21. New Jersey? Surely you jest.

According to the Brady Center, the state of New Jersey requires a license for ALL gun sales including private-party transfers.

See http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/reportcards/2003/details.pdf

Nice try. I'll bet a crook who wants a gun in NYC has no more trouble getting one than a junkie scoring heroin.

[CO Liberal]

24. If They Can't Buy In New Jersey....

...Pennsylvania is less than an hour's drive away. And several other states can be reached within a few hours of driving.

[MrBenchley]

26. For that matter

the Republicans have Schumer's bill to fight gun trafficking bottled up in committee...and there are criminals who make a pretty good living running guns from gun shows in backwards sumps like Georgia and South Carolina to NYC.

[slackmaster]

27. So you would impose NYC's restrictions everywhere?

That would be the only way to ensure that someone in NYC couldn't drive to another state to buy a gun.

That would be a logical position to take if you insist that gun control is the only way to stop gun-related crime, but politically completely unrealistic and disregards the rights of people outside of NYC. You'd never be able to sell the idea in most states.

[CO Liberal]

30. I Have Always Been in Favor of a Nationwide Standard

It would be up to the powers that be to develop that standard.

[slackmaster]

32. On this we agree

But it would never come anywhere near the draconian restrictions of New York City. State-level gun control laws are pointless in a nation with open borders.

[PopeyeII]

37. The instant background check was supposed to take care of that.

A little experiment for you, see how fast you purchase a handgun. If you can't then the law works, if you won't then you really don't have the experience to be the pretend expert you think you are. If you do manage to purchase a firearm, complete the 4473 and take legal posession of it I will admit in public I am wrong.

[slackmaster]

40. CO is referring to private-party transfers

Not subject to background checks in most states (though they are in NJ). NICS by law cannot be used by private individuals.

[PopeyeII]

43. NY-NJ

No way there could be a legal person-person handgun transfer.

[slackmaster]

44. Clearly not legally

There's no way to stop someone who doesn't care how many laws get broken in the process of buying a gun or anything else.

[CO Liberal]

45. Exactly

That's why each and every transfer of ownership of a gun needs to be registered. Similar to the filing of a bill of sale when you buy a car - whether it's registered for use on the road or not.

[slackmaster]

46. You're suggesting adding another layer for criminals to ignore

Even if your scheme was implemented today guns that are already in the black market would not be affected, nor would guns that get stolen and put into the black market, nor illegally imported guns, nor homemade ones.

[CO Liberal]

47. But It Would Be a Start

Stiffen the penalties for black market activity, and put it out of business.

[slackmaster]

48. You present a starting point but no end point

Fodder for slippery-slope accusations.

[iverglas]

75. what language are you speaking?

You say:

You're suggesting adding another layer for criminals to ignore
Even if your scheme was implemented today guns that are already in the black market would not be affected, nor would guns that get stolen and put into the black market, nor illegally imported guns, nor homemade ones.

CO Liberal says:

But It Would Be a Start
Stiffen the penalties for black market activity, and put it out of business.

You then say:

You present a starting point but no end point
Fodder for slippery-slope accusations.

Is your own attention span this inadequate, or do you just imagine that someone else's might be?

What can you possibly mean by "a starting point but no end point"??

What was under discussion was ILLEGAL TRANSFERS OF FIREARMS. That's it, that's all.

What exactly might the "end point" of a scheme to inhibit the illegal transfers of firearms be, other than stopping all illegal transfers of firearms? And ... is that a bad thing?

What exactly are you insinuating that it might be, without offering anything, not a single piece of evidence, to suggest that it might indeed be whatever you're insinuating it might be?

What can you possibly mean by "slippery-slope accusations"??

That perhaps someone will accuse an advocate of measures to inhibit ILLEGAL TRANSFERS OF FIREARMS of plotting to do something quite else?

On what basis? And why should anyone care?


A requirement for background checks on all transfers of firearms, including the most private and intimate, would provide "another layer" for LAW-ABIDING GUN OWNERS to willingly and law-abidingly comply with.

The only way that a criminal would ever have the opportunity to ignore this provision would be if the criminal had got the firearm from a law-abiding gun owner, whether by purchase, gift or theft, or if the criminal had got the firearm from a source outside the country.

Background checks on private purchases are not going to stop theft. DUH. But secure storage laws to be complied with BY LAW-ABIDING GUN OWNERS will sure go a ways toward reducing thefts. Mind you ... they won't do anything to stop illegal voluntary transfers ... stop ... I'm getting dizzy ...

Background checks on private purchases are not going to stop smuggling. But ratifying and complying with international conventions for the reduction of small arms trafficking, and demanding compliance by treaty partners, might do something in that direction.

Background checks on private purchases ARE going to stop transfers to disqualified persons by LAW-ABIDING GUN OWNERS who choose to continue to be law-abiding gun owners, and who, like, give a shit about whoever might get killed by a disqualified purchaser they sell to ... or even about getting caught not having got the background check done if their firearms turn up someplace where they oughtn't to be and are traced back to them.

Background checks on private purchasers ARE going to make it possible to trace a firearm to its last law-abiding owner, given that a background check would have been performed on that person ... oh, unless, I suppose, nobody's allowed to keep a record of those checks. What moronicity, if so. The rules are beyond me, I'm afraid. But I gather that there is some way of tracing a firearm to its first law-abiding owner, so that's a start. (Eek, eek, where's the end?)

Background checks on private purchases aren't going to harness the tides in the Bay of Fundy or keep your ice cream frozen. But they would deter SOME law-abiding gun owners from passing their firearms on to criminals. What on earth is bad about that? And what devilish slope can it be alleged to lead down?

[RoeBear]

56. Knock, Knock...

Hello?


We all ready have one.

[CO Liberal]

10. Shooting suspect wants statements to police tossed (PA)

I guess ALL "law-abiding gun owners we don't have to worry about" feel they have the right to shoot their neighbor at Home Depot. Remind me to shop at Lowes. - Wayne

* * * * *

Shooting suspect wants statements to police tossed

NORRISTOWN -- A Chester County man accused of shooting his neighbor in the abdomen at a Home Depot store challenged in court papers Tuesday the legality of several pieces of prosecutorial evidence.

Philip Costantini, through his lawyer, Timothy Wood-ward, asked a judge to prevent prosecutors from using Costantini’s statements to police as evidence at his trial. Woodward argued any statements Costantini gave to investigators were not legally obtained.

<snip>

The charges stem from a Feb. 5 shooting at the Home Depot on West DeKalb Pike in King of Prussia, during which Douglas Lawson, Costantini’s 42-year-old neighbor, was injured.

Costantini and Lawson had been embroiled in a dispute since March 2003 about an addition that Lawson wanted to build to his home. The pair crossed paths at 10 a.m. at The Home Depot, and a verbal confrontation ensued. The altercation escalated, with Costantini brandishing a semiautomatic handgun from the waistband of his pants and shooting Lawson, detectives said.

<more>

http://www.pottstownmercury.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=12076759&BRD=1674&PAG=461&dept_id=18041&rfi=6

[MrBenchley]

13. Register employees shot at while stocking news rack (AL)

"MOBILE, Ala. (AP) - Two newspaper circulation employees were shot at early Wednesday morning as they filled newspaper racks in Eight Mile.
The Mobile Register employees, single copy district manager Chuck Harrell and a first-night trainee, were shot at twice.
Harrell, who has worked at the Register for about two years, said the incident began around 2:30 a.m. when he and the trainee stopped at the newspaper rack at Elba Street and U.S. 45. Harrell said two men pulled up near them in a burgundy car as he got out of his truck.
Harrell said he was opening the news rack when he heard one of the men say something. The man, who appeared to be wearing a black ski mask, then got out of the car and aimed a sawed-off shotgun at Harrell and the trainee. "

http://www.wpmi.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=B2105597-A67F-4A77-9896-C617E69CCDFA

[MrBenchley]

19. Store agrees to pay $1 million to officers shot with gun it sold (WV)

"CHARLESTON, W.Va. - A South Charleston pawn shop has agreed to pay $1 million to two New Jersey police officers who were shot with a gun the shop sold.
Kanawha County Circuit Judge Irene Berger on Wednesday approved the settlement between Will Co., doing business as Will's Jewelry and Loan, and Orange, N.J., police officers David Lemongello and Kenneth McGuire.
The officers sued the pawn shop after they were shot with a Sturm, Ruger 9-millimeter semiautomatic handgun in January 2001. Both were disabled and have retired.
The shop sold the gun and 11 others through a "straw sale" in July 2000. In a straw sale, someone without a criminal record buys the guns, the turns them over to a gun trafficker.
The gun used to shoot the officers was bought by Tammi Lea Songer of South Charleston, who turned the guns over to James Gray, a convicted felon who could not buy guns. Gray sold them to convicted felons, including Shuntez Everett, who shot the officers."

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/104-06232004-321074.html

[MrBenchley]

22. Boy, 9, dies in handgun tragedy (IL)

"A family of four adopted boys was ripped apart Wednesday when one of them died after accidentally shooting himself with a handgun found in their home.
Nine-year-old Terry Jones apparently found the weapon inside his home in the 700 block of North Lockwood. The weapon accidentally discharged, and Terry was shot in the chest about 6 p.m., said Chicago Police Sgt. Robert Cargie.
The bullet then went through a window or a wall, striking a 14-year-old boy who was in the backyard, Cargie said. Terry was hospitalized in critical condition and died after surgery at Mount Sinai Hospital.
The 14-year-old was taken to West Suburban Hospital Medical Center in Oak Park, where he was in stable condition late Wednesday."

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-shootings24.html

[MrBenchley]

28. Student pleads guilty to bringing gun to school (CT)

"BRISTOL (AP) -- A student at Bristol Central High School is facing prison time after pleading guilty to taking a loaded gun to school.
Seventeen-year-old Adashia Bailey was arrested in April, just minutes after a loaded handgun fell out of her school bag. Police say Bailey left the school building after a teacher reported the weapon to school administrators. Police took Bailey into custody near the school driveway and while searching her found a quantity of marijuana, packaged for sale. "

http://www.wfsb.com/Global/story.asp?S=1965732&nav=1VGmOAIp

[MrBenchley]

29. Taunton teen charged with firing gun in field (MA)

"TAUNTON — A man fired a gun Wednesday at the East Taunton softball field where two groups of youths met for a brawl, according to police.
Christopher Sands, 18, of 170 Middleboro Ave., East Taunton, is being charged with assault and battery with a dangerous weapon, a gun.
Police said about 30 youths went to Sikorski Field off Middleboro Avenue shortly after midnight for a fight.
Sands is one of four men who were arrested last Sunday in connection with the stabbing and beating of an East Taunton man outside the Portuguese-American Civic Club on School Street."

http://www.enterprisenews.com/articles/2004/06/24/news/news/news15.txt

[MrBenchley]

34. Fatal N.C. Shooting Prompts JSO To Revisit 30-Year-Old Case

"A Jacksoinnville woman who claimed self-defense in the fatal shooting of her ex-husband in 1973 has been charged with second-degree murder for the death of her second husband, prompting local investigators to revisit the old case. In both shootings, Barbara Sue Osborne claimed she was provoked during a domestic altercation.
Barbara Sue Osborne, now 57, was 25 when police were called to the Sherwood Forest neighborhood in northwest Jacksonville in January 1973 to find Welton "Paul" Flantos lying dead in the front yard.
Osborne told police she shot Flantos in self defense and the case was closed. Police in Cabarrus County charged Osborne Monday with second-degree murder for the fatal shooting of Ted M. Osborne, her second husband. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/wjxt/20040623/lo_wjxt/2260689

[MrBenchley]

35. Teen on Probation Was Able to Legally Buy AK-47 (MI)

"A Michigan teen on probation through juvenile court for involuntary manslaughter was allowed to legally purchase an AK-47 semiautomatic rifle, the Ann Arbor News reported June 3. The gun was used last week in a gun fight that left Steven Gyori dead and two police officers seriously wounded.
In 2002, Gyori was charged in the shooting death of his father following an argument in their Farmington Hills home. But oversights and loopholes in the system allowed Gyori to avoid jail time and purchase the AK-47. According to Brighton Police Chief Michael Kinaschuk, Michigan law prohibits convicted felons from owning a firearm. However, the law doesn't apply to juvenile convictions.
Oakland County Chief Deputy Prosecutor Deborah Carley said Gyori would have gotten jail time if the courts knew that he had purchased a gun while on juvenile probation. "That juvenile-court judge would have locked him up in a heartbeat if she knew he bought an assault weapon after he killed his dad," Carley said. "

http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/summaries/reader/0,2061,572026,00.html

[MrBenchley]

36. N.D. shooting leaves 1 dead, 1 wounded

Another family made safer by guns....

"A shooting Wednesday afternoon in Dickey County, N.D., left a teenager dead and his mother wounded.
Wade Radermacher, 33, is in custody for the shooting that happened about 1 p.m. on the family's farm three miles north of Monango. He was taken to Stutsman County Jail in Jamestown and will be charged with murder, Dickey County State's Attorney Gary Neuharth said.
Radermacher's teenage stepson, Kylie Heinle, was killed. Lisa Radermacher, Heinle's mother and the suspect's wife, was wounded, but it is not lifethreatening, Neuharth told The Associated Press. "

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=61631§ion=News

[MrBenchley]

38. Man convicted for ordering son to shoot intruder (AL)

"PHENIX CITY, Alabama (AP) -- A father was convicted of murder Wednesday for arming his 11-year-old son with a shotgun and ordering him to open fire on an intruder.
The boy testified he did not want to shoot Andre Scott on May 10, 2003, but said "my daddy told me to." Scott died several hours after the attack."

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06/23/shooter.son.ap/index.html

[iverglas]

39. allow me to admire your restraint

The boy, now 13, testified that the father awakened him the night of the slaying to check on an empty unlocked trailer the family owned. He said they found Scott, a former friend of the father, asleep on the couch in the trailer.

The boy testified Scott "took off running" when he saw the boy and his father holding guns. "Shoot him!" the boy quoted his father as saying.

The youngster said he hesitated, then fired the .410-gauge shotgun down the hallway without aiming.

The Garretts went outside but could not find Scott, who fled after being shot. According to the boy, Charlie Garrett said, "If you don't tell nobody, I won't tell nobody."

Did Snuffy have a kid?

If so, I bet he knew better than to talk to the durn revenooers.


But cereally, folks, what an incredibly sad tale.

[MrBenchley]

41. Another case of self defense (snicker)

[MrBenchley]

42. Man shot to death on street, police say (IN)

"A man was shot to death Wednesday night while walking on a Near-Eastside street, police said.
The victim, identified as Charles Iles, 30, of the 1400 block of Olive Street, was declared dead about 40 minutes after the shooting, which was reported at 7:36 p.m.
Indianapolis police said they were told that a man wearing a yellow shirt was on the ground on St. Paul Street just north of Pleasant Run Parkway, North Drive.
Officers said they were told that a green Pontiac with two men inside was seen driving south on St. Paul Street and onto the parkway."

http://www.indystar.com/articles/6/157422-7216-009.html

[MrBenchley]

53. Teen shot to death in car outside Seattle-area apartment

"A young man was shot to death as he sat in a car outside a suburban apartment building, King County sheriff's deputies said.
After gunshots were reported at the Empire Terrace Apartments in the Skyway area about 11:30 p.m. Tuesday, deputies found Michael D. Ervin Jr., 19, lying wounded on the ground at a nearby gasoline station, sheriff's Sgt. John Urquhart said.
Ervin died after being rushed to Harborview Medical Center in Seattle. "

http://www.kgw.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D83DCVL80.html

[MrBenchley]

54. Healing Soldier Shot To Death In Southland

"LOS ANGELES -- Authorities say an Army paratrooper who served in Afghanistan and Iraq was shot to death outside his mother's home in Victorville, Calif.
Daniel Maldonado has been recuperating from back injuries suffered in March when he fell from a helicopter in Iraq. The 20-year-old was supposed to have reported to Fort Bragg, North Carolina Thursday for training and was expected to return to Iraq.
Authorities say he was outside the home with his girlfriend and two other friends just after midnight Wednesday when a man approached and an argument ensued.
Moments later a car pulled up and a passenger fired at least one shot that hit Maldonado in the chest. He ran back and collapsed in the garage where he later died."

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/3455362/detail.html

[MrBenchley]

57. Shooting at Albany apartment complex

"Albany police are looking for three armed men believed to be involved in a shooting at an Albany apartment complex early this morning. No one was injured, but up to four shots were fired at an apartment in the 1100 block of Oak Street S.E., according to Albany police.
Police were called to the area at 1:36 a.m. for a report of shots fired. They found that one of the apartments had been shot at. There were five adults inside at the time of the shooting but none were hurt. "

http://www.democratherald.com/articles/2004/06/24/news/local/news03.txt

[MrBenchley]

59. Drive-by Shooting Injures Teen, Two Others (PA)

"Pittsburgh (KDKA) Three people -- including a 15-year-old boy -- are recovering from gunshot wounds after a drive-by shooting early this morning in St. Clair Village.
Around 1am, police responded to a call that shots had been fired along Fisher Street; authorities quickly learned there were multiple shooting victims.
The two victims were both taken to Mercy Hospital. While police were still at the hospital, a third person showed up with a gunshot wound to the arm. Police say the 20-year-old man lives in Beltzhoover, where they found a van that they say may be connected to the shooting."

http://kdka.com/local/local_story_176155029.html

[MrBenchley]

62. Police Respond To Shooting At Crash Victim's Home (OH)

"A shooting reportedly occurred overnight at the Toledo home of one of the people involved in Monday night's crash that killed six people leaving Cedar Point.
An armed man forced his way into the house of Andrea Bain, who was a passenger in a Chevrolet Blazer that reportedly caused the crash, WDIV-TV reported. Bain was riding in the SUV when it crossed the centerline on Route 2 and hit a tractor-trailer, causing a chain-reaction crash, according to reports.
Toledo police said the gunman is Bain's boyfriend. He shot her father and then turned the gun on himself, the station reported.
Bain's father is hospitalized in stable condition. The boyfriend was also hospitalized; however, his condition is not known. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/wesh/20040623/lo_wews/2259781

[MrBenchley]

63. House bars disclosure of gun records

Yeah, it's the party of "personal responsibility," all right...

"WASHINGTON - A House committee gave a victory to the firearms industry yesterday, voting to bar the disclosure of some federal gun records for use in civil lawsuits.
The measure's sponsor, Rep. Todd Tiahrt, a Kansas Republican, said it was sparked by a recent court ruling in Brooklyn.
Magistrate Judge Cheryl Pollak ruled last month that New York City may access the records as part of a lawsuit the city has brought against 40 gunmakers and distributors for business practices the city claims let criminals obtain firearms.
The provision was criticized by New York Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, who said it would scuttle the city's lawsuit.
"It is an outrage," Bloomberg said. "This is an end-run by the to take away the Police Department's ability to get guns off the street and for us to hold gun manufacturers liable." "

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-te.passports24jun24,0,6123998.story?coll=bal-nationworld-headlines&track=rss

[slackmaster]

64. Saudi Arabia says foreigners can now carry guns for self-protection

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (Reuters) -- Saudi Arabia will allow foreigners who feel threatened by the wave of militant violence in the kingdom to carry guns for their protection, Interior Minister Prince Nayef bin Abdulaziz said.

"In principle a Saudi has the right to carry a weapon, if he has a permit. Likewise a foreign resident, if he felt in danger he could get a permit to carry a weapon," Nayef was quoted as saying by the official Saudi Press Agency on Thursday.

"I mean a personal weapon which a person can have in his own country," the prince said....

For full copyrighted article please see http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/24/saudi.foreigners.reut/index.html

Here's to the Saudis for giving legal resident aliens the same right to self-defense as their own citizens, just like we do for foreign visitors here in the USA.

:toast:

[MrBenchley]

66. Yeah, THERE's a bastion of enlightenment...

Shows what a truly idiotic idea concealed carry is, that it appeals to one of the most repressive and backwards societies on earth...

[Retired AF Dem]

79. You are correct

It is preferable to have your head cut off then to have the tools which would give you a fighting chance on keeping your head. Please excuse me while I wipe the laughter tears from my eyes.

[MrBenchley]

69. Second suspect held in gas station shooting (TX)

"Dallas police have arrested a second suspect Thursday in connection with the fatal shooting of a man at a gas station.
Adrian Rodriguez, 18, was arrested on the 5400 block of East Grand Avenue around 2:15 a.m., police said.
Police said Rodriguez is the suspected gunman in the June 11 death of Fidel Ramirez, 35. Ramirez was pumping gas at an Exxon station on the 1600 block of Inwood Road when he was shot. "

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/062404dnwebshootingsuspect.293994041.htm

[MrBenchley]

71. Suspect in Bailey's shooting death held without bond (TN)

"The man charged with first-degree murder in the shooting death of Jackson Police Sgt. Andy Bailey will remain in police custody without bond but also has until Monday to obtain the services of an attorney.
Michael J. Hart, the 20-year-old accused of snatching a purse at Old Hickory Mall on June 17 and leading police on a high-speed chase that ended in Bailey's death, was arraigned this morning in City Court.
The warrant said that Hart robbed a purse in the parking lot of Old Hickory Mall and fired a shot in the mall's court yard. The warrant went on to read that Hart struck two patrol units after fleeing the scene and, when Bailey pulled up to the driver's side of the suspect's vehicle, Hart got out of his vehicle and fired at least two shots into the open front passenger window of Bailey's police cruiser. Bailey was struck by two bullets, according to the warrant."

http://www.jacksonsun.com/news/20040624_shooting.shtml

[iverglas]

74. Friendly dog averts 'killing spree' (Toronto)

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1088080094223&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154

The man drove from the Maritimes with a carload of guns and ammunition intending to kill as many people in Toronto as he could, he told police. But a last-minute encounter with a woman and her dogs in a lakefront park convinced him Torontonians are nice too.

... Police said the suspect had a loaded gun in his pocket and a car crammed with more than 6,000 rounds of ammunition and had intended to start firing in the park on a sunny summer afternoon.

... After visiting the park, the man, who police describe as mentally ill, drove around the city looking for a police officer.

... Officers tallied the cache Wednesday night, counting carton after carton of bullets. The list included: a 12-gauge shotgun, a bolt action rifle with a telescopic lens, a 9-mm semi-automatic, a machete, throwing knife, camouflage ski mask, black leather gloves, and 6,296 rounds of ammunition.

Okay, no, I don't know how or where he got that stuff, but I imagine the Toronto police will be taking an active interest and I'll let you know if I notice any updates.

I just thought I'd let y'all in on the obviously effective Canadian approach to self-defence against armed lunatics.

Get a dog, walk it in the park, be friendly with strangers. Seems to work, even for the Torontonians that the entire country loves to hate.

[PopeyeII]

78. I want the truth!

Was the dog licensed?

[RoeBear]

80. Anything you would suggest to...

...prevent someting like this happening again?