I changed my mind about guns...

[Used and Abused]

I probably will go ahead and buy a gun sometime in the near future. I'm a young person who lives alone in what is becoming a more and more violent world. I thought about it today--if I saw someone attacking one of my friends or anyone from my family, I would have absolutely no problem pulling the trigger.

[LynneSin]

1. I've lived alone now for the last 16 years

and I'm even in a neighborhood where you would think I would want a gun.

And yet I've never found any real reason to own one. I figured if I had a gun in my home it'll probably be the gun that ends up doing harm to me (although not in the suicidal way).

btw, I'm a single female.

After reading your post I just wanted to congratulate you on buying into the fear. You don't need a gun trust me!

[Used and Abused]

2. I honestly see your point

That's the way I felt too.

But now I'm very afraid. Every night on the news I hear about a new murder. Take the latest mass murder in Florida, for instance. A gun in the house could have saved lives! I never want to be in the position of being helpless.

[LynneSin]

8. That gun will never protect you but give you a false sense of security

which will make you even more unsafe.

I live in a very urban area of Wilmington Delaware and I have never felt unsafe even once in my home. Sometimes I realize I forgot to lock & chain my door at nights and yet in 4 years no one has ever broke into my apartment (my car was broken into once, but i left a bunch of CDs on the car seat). You think I'm kidding? My zipcode was listed in a recent article in the local newspaper as being an area with a high problem of Heroin addiction.

Do you think somehow your world will be safer because you have a gun? It won't be and in fact it could be more dangerous. Someone breaks into your home and surprises you, that gun could be the biggest liability in your home. There is nothing so valuable in my life that I must own a gun to protect it including my own well being. Your naivety on the protection you believe you would feel by owning a gun frightens me.

[alwynsw]

96. I must disagree

I'm a survivor of a home invasion. Back then, we just claaed it breaking and entering. The nurglar shot, I shot back. I got a bandage. He got a casket. Fair exchange. My wife and new son were also in the house.

I heard a noise, got my .45, called out, and went to investigate. As I rounded the corner into the hallway, he shot without warning.

Training? I'd been well trained. Military and two weeks at Gunsite. I practiced at least a couple of times a week at the range. I still practice a couple of times a week in my back yard since I'm back on the farm.

[BOHICA06]

3. You really don't need a gun .... until

you really need a gun and then nothing else will do.

One of those crappy oxymorons that can cost you your life if the proper tool isn't handy and/or you haven't train to use it.

[LWolf]

42. You make a vital point here.

Whether or not to own a gun isn't the point; I'm not "gunning" for the 2nd amendment. It's the reason why.

Owning a gun because you are afraid is a recipe for disaster, imo. I am also a single female, I've never owned a gun, and I live in a "risky" neighborhood. Risky enough to have had a teenage showdown on the street in front of my house, with one carrying a sawed-off shotgun. Risky enough to rate a heavy presence of black and whites.

I've just never been afraid. I seem to be lacking the fear gene. And, guess what? I don't attract trouble. I mind my own business, and stay non-confrontational, and the neighborhood ignores me. Or waves as they pass the house.

I think that fear attracts the very thing you are afraid of. Kind of like a pheromone, lol.

If I had a gun, I would be more likely to be shot with it than to shoot someone. Or, if I was really a fearful person, to shoot the wrong person by accident.

It's understandable that there are people "buying into the fear" out there; they're susceptible to the constant barrage of terror alerts, and the general atomosphere of fear in America since 9/11. Not that carrying a gun would have helped the folks in the WTC, and they sure wouldn't have been allowed on any of the planes involved.

It's just that participating in it feeds it; the fear gets stronger and more widespread.

We need to let go of the fear. Just my opinion. One way to start is to banish tv and radio news.

[Warpy]

69. I live in an area called the War Zone

I moved here from a worse neighborhood in Boston. I have never felt compelled to own a gun, and I've faced down bad guys with guns twice and gotten out with my property, virtue, person, and life intact.

This is bear, coyote and cougar country so I'd never secondguess any person here who owns a gun. I just don't want one, myself.

I'm much more dangerous without one.

[gatlingforme]

101. That's funny, I knew a guy who was murdered, but they did not

murder me. I feel much safer now. Whew!!!So there you have it.

[ContraBass Black]

4. If you're going to get one, be sure you know how to use it.

Take marksmanship/saftey classes.

That said, it might not be such a good idea. a gun in anyone's hands can make a volitle situation more dangerous for everyone. How will you have your gun on hand for such a thing? What kind will it be? What are the laws in your area? What if an attacker disarms you?

If you fire your gun and you miss, the results could easily be catastrophic.

[foslrock]

5. The 2nd..

This is an area that I completely disagree with the dems platform. I believe guns are the eighth necessity after water, air, food, sex, shelter, intelligence, and energy.

Remember, the saying - "politician's love unarmed peasants... Of course, when one owns a gun, one should also own a good set of common sense, as well.

[LynneSin]

11. Guns are never ever a necessity in life

Not that I have a problem with gun ownership. But people who own guns because they feel that the gun will somehow make their world safer probably live in a world where their head is more in the sand than outside realizing what is truly happening. I prefer to not live in a world such as that.

Guns should be purchased because you enjoy hunting or shooting (as a sport). But anyone who is buying a gun for protection should first have some serious analysis of their life. Those type of owners frighten me!

[RUSTY SHACKLEFORD]

13. "Those type of owners frighten me"

Well, don't worry. Those of us who pack will protect you.

[Used and Abused]

15. I don't agree with hunting

and the senseless murder of animals.

Lynne, I think its a little easy for you to not want a gun. You live in Delaware!! I don't know much about the state, which leads me to believe that it can't be all that bad. The area that I live in is 50% more violent than average.

[LynneSin]

23. Then you've never been to Urban Wilmington Delaware

Believe me, we rate up there with the best of the small cities out there and even some of the large cities. We have one of the highest increases in AIDS because of the out-of-control Herion use in our city. And if you have high percentage of junkies in your city then someone is out there trying to find a way to get their next fix.

And for someone who is willing to buy a gun because 'he's frightened' better not judge me or my family for hunting. Don't even get me started on that topic. In your honor I think I'm going to cook up that last Venison Steak in my fridge

[gatlingforme]

123. I am not sure I see anywhere in Used and Abused post that judged

you!!!, The person stated an opinion and I agree with it as well, hunting for sport should be regarded as animal abuse.

[foslrock]

43. the suburbs are a self-confined reality

Life feeds on life. That is how it's been, and how it will always be. Get out of the self-confined suburbian prison and take a real walk in the woods. One thing, you'll notice is how new life needs old life to survive.

[gatlingforme]

128. wherever you are there you are.

[skippythwndrdog]

94. I do hope you're a vegetarian or vegan.

Otherwise your post may be construed as hypocritical.

I hunt regularly. I eat what I shoot. If I don't eat it, I don't hunt it with one exception; predators and varmints who kill livestock and/or damage crops. If you are a veg of some stripe, you should appreciate the fact that I and others in rural areas protect your food crops.

[gatlingforme]

125. OH pahleeeeze---

Who says you have to be a vegan to be against hunting? that is absurd. In your case you hunt what you eat. that's good, I can't stand hunters who hunt for the sport. I think it's sick. BUT that is IMHO. A person who is raped gets an abortion and is still against abortion.... is that person a hypocrite? this all or none argument
presupposes that everyone is perfect. ugh.

[skippythwndrdog]

162. You stopped a little short in you statement. Thanks for clarifying.

After a while reading the Gungeon posts, one tends to get a little reactionary when someone says that they oppose hunting without qualifying it.

Apologies.

[gatlingforme]

163. I do that too. no prob.

[alwynsw]

98. Post 96. n/t

[Johnnyvegas1965]

161. :)

Guns should be purchased because you enjoy hunting or shooting (as a sport). But anyone who is buying a gun for protection should first have some serious analysis of their life. Those type of owners frighten me!


Can I own one for all three, or does that frighten you too?


Wondering in Washington

[Union Thug]

9. Agreed..

There's absolutely no sense in owning a gun unless you possess a certain level of expertise in its use.

Take the classes mentioned previously. Then get to the gun range as often as possible so that you become very comfortable with the gun. You NEED to know exactly how it works. Learn to field strip and clean it thoroughly.

None of this is difficult. It's just a matter of doing it. Who knows, you might, like me, enjoy going to the range!

[Used and Abused]

hmmm

I know this sounds stupid but I'm assuming that if I ever have to use a gun it will be at close range. Can't go wrong at that short a distance...can I? Then again, maybe I'll take one course. Even if I'm robbed or something, I will not use the gun unless my life is in true danger. I won't be irresponsible with lives--I always hate when I hear about people who shoot young teens for breaking in their cars, etc.

[ContraBass Black]

36. Yes you can go wrong at short range!

Especially if it's a pistol!

It is critically important that you be trained.

[Union Thug]

40. You'd be surprised...

There is a certain point and shoot component to gun handling at close range, but you'd be surprised how much more difficult things become with the added adrenelin component thrown in --- even with sporting competition like trap shooting.

But more importantly is gaining comfort and confidence with your gun. only regular trips to the shooting range can help you there.

If you are looking at home defense ONLY, I would recommend you get a shotgun. Point and shoot ability maximized. IF you ever had to use it, the pellets will not penetrate your walls and pass through your neighbors' walls like a .45 or a .357 might. Much simpler to use than a semi-auto handgun.

[mac56]

44. Plus - the sound of a shotgun being pumped is often all you need

to scare off an intruder.

[LynneSin]

57. You'll take just one course????

:scared:

Please don't move anywhere near me in Wilmington. We have enough scared folks with guns.

If you are buying a gun I would take a serious of courses so you can be an expert marksperson. If you can't be bothered with taken classes to learn how to properly use a gun you might as well just hand your gun over to whomever is attacking you because it might be safer that way.

[RUSTY SHACKLEFORD]

6. Not owning a gun is a foolish mistake.

It's not the responsible, honest gun owners that society has to worry about. It is the 10% of society's thugs, who will always have access to guns regardless of law.

Protect your family; buy a gun. Learn to use it. Don't expect that the cops are going to protect you and yours, because they're not.

And we all should own a gun, if for no other reason, to scare the living hell out of the government. Make your leaders think you're a gun fanatic and that you live for the sole reason to string up bankers and politicians. They might just be so afraid of revolution that they'll possibly be willing to listen to what you have to say.

[LynneSin]

16. You are so wrong in that statement

I've managed to almost pass 4 decades of life without owning and/or using a gun. I've lived in both rural, suburban and now urban areas and still don't feel a need for a gun. I refuse to allow the media or gun nuts to convince me that I'm unsafe because I don't own a gun.

Gun ownership is a personal choice which I would never take away from anyone even though the 2nd ammendment is totally misinterpretted by the NRA and other gun-nuts.

I am not frightened by the thugs out there carrying guns but frightened by people made so afraid by the media that they feel they need to buy a gun. To me, they are the most dangerous gun owners out there because they feel that somehow their life is more safe by a piece of metal. They are the ones either have the gun turned on them by someone criminal-type or accidently use it because something 'frightened' by them.

There is nothing that I own nor even my own well-being that justifies my owning a gun. If anything, I feel 110% safer without one than with one

[Kitka]

24. I simply couldn’t agree with you any more…

And I live in a high crime area.

I do own guns, because they are family heirlooms from my great grandfather and my husband’s uncle… but they’re dismantled, in the attic, and we have no ammunition.

[RUSTY SHACKLEFORD]

28. "not frightened by the thugs out there carrying guns"

If you're more afraid of honest and decent Americans who simply wish to protect their families from the criminal element in society, then IMHO you are misguided.

You have a right to NOT carry a gun if you so choose. You do NOT have a right to disarm me and leave my family defenseless from thuggery in whatever form it may take.

[LynneSin]

62. Who said I was disarming you?

What I'm doing is discourage someone who is buying a gun because they are frightened.

Don't go freaking putting words in my or anyone elses mouth here. Damn irritating if you ask me. As a child of 3 generations in the Pennsylvania State Game Commission AND NRA, I highly doubt I would ever take guns from ANYONE out there. However, I'm smart enough to know that it's people like this 'used & abused' poster that is giving gun owners a horrible reputation. Buying a gun because he's 'afraid' and now I read where maybe he'll take one class on how to use it.

My god, this frightens the hell out of me. Although I don't own a gun my father took me to a series of classes at our local sportsman club back when I was 12 years old. One class will teach this person NOTHING! So now we have another frightened, uneducated gun owner out there - Makes me thing of that great cartoon featured in "Bowling for Columbine" with all the scared folks owning guns. They are the people to be feared them and folks like you that assume that either you're a die hard gun nut or you are some bleeding heart liberal who wants to have all the guns melted. Take YOUR head out of the sand and stop stereotyping everyone when it comes to guns. It's damn offensive!!!

[goju]

79. Im confused

You are not threatened by thugs carrying guns, but you are threatened by law abiding citizens with guns?

[MrBenchley]

20. Rubbish...

"we all should own a gun, if for no other reason, to scare the living hell out of the government"
Yeah, NRA life member AshKKKroft is shaking in his boots over you and your popgun....which is why he does everything he can to kowtow to the gun lobby...

"Make your leaders think you're a gun fanatic and that you live for the sole reason to string up bankers and politicians. They might just be so afraid of revolution that they'll possibly be willing to listen to what you have to say."
Or they might think you're just another run of the mill loony....

Amazing how many "let's shoot some citizens for the glorious revolution" posts DU has started to sprout after Rush Limbaugh called us a "left wing hate site", isn't it?

[RUSTY SHACKLEFORD]

34. "just another run of the mill loony"

Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. What do I care what THEY think of ME? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Amazing how many Americans are simply willing to lay down and let their government steamroll over them. I'm sure that's the way the founding fathers intended it to be. {/sarcasm off}

[MadHound]

29. LOL friend, that is exactly what the government does

When it sees gun owners trying to rationalize their gun fetish as "protecting society from the government"

Face it, it doesn't matter any more how big or bad ass your guns are, if you are going to get into it with the government, you're going to lose. Sure, you can go out blazing with two AKs, a rocket launcher, and your trusty 9mm semi auto, but the government will simply send in a couple of Abrams tanks, or better yet, come over with one of those nifty Stealth fighters, and your ass is history.

Protecting ones self from criminals is much more legit, but really all you need is a twelve gauge shotgun for that. In fact, that is what the NRA recommends for home defense, in either double barrel or pump version. No need for handguns, etc.

But thinking you and your friends can keep the government quaking in their boots because of your armament is ludicrous on the face of it. Hell, my father in law has one of the biggest gun collections I've seen, and is a dedicated gun enthusiast, and even he is under no illusion about who would win if he took on the government.

So please, disillusion yourself of the false notion that you are somehow keeping the government honest. You're not, and they aren't really afraid of you either.

[Used and Abused]

32. lol nt

[RUSTY SHACKLEFORD]

37. Obviously you've never heard of Posse Comitatus.

If there's ever a revolution, the troops will be on my side.

[MadHound]

89. Obviously you've never seen a Stealth bomber in action

I would make your ground troops into so much hamburger, no matter what small arms you had with you.

And yes, I've heard of Posse Comitatus, the US is violating that act now.

And how do you know the troops will be on your side? Because of your magnetic personality:eyes:

[iverglas]

112. hey, I have!

and I was just reading about it this a.m., and writing about it in another thread.

Here ya go.

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Posse%20Comitatus

The Posse Comitatus is a loosely-organized survivalist militia group that opposes the United States federal government and believes in vigilantism. They are considered racist as well, since the racial beliefs of Christian Identity are a part of the group's ideology. The name of the group translates from Latin to mean "power of the county," and the Posse believes that all governmental power is rooted at the county, not Federal, level.

http://www.maxwell.syr.edu/maxpages/faculty/merupert/Research/far-right/berlet.html (from 1995)

Behind the militias is a history in this country of anti-democratic right-wing paramilitary groups that want to create a private army bent on accomplishing a series of authoritarian or theocratic goals that include rejecting federal laws and regulations, treating people of color as second-class citizens, stopping abortion by force, putting homosexuals to death, and targeting Jews by claiming they are conspiring for evil purposes. It is important to remember that one of the most famous militia movements in the U.S. is the Ku Klux Klan that arose as a militia during the turmoil of Reconstruction. In recent months a series of overlapping right wing social movements with militant factions appeared to be coalescing into the militias to create a potential for violent confrontation against the targeted scapegoats. These sectors include:

- Militant right wing gun rights advocates, anti-tax protesters, survivalists, far right libertarians, and persons promoting a variety of pseudo-legal theories.

- Pre-existing elements of racist, antisemitic, or neo-Nazi movements such as the Posse Comitatus, Christian Identity, or Christian Patriots.

...

Funny how often you find those "militant right wing gun rights advocates" in company with those "racist, antisemitic and neo-Nazi movements", ain't it?

[goju]

83. Hypothetical question

Were this "revolution" within the US to occur, would ALL the military support the feds or would some of them refuse to fight, or even support the citizens?

Silly question in a silly debate but I cant imagine everyone in uniform following orders in that situation. Otherwise, it wouldnt be a revolution, it would be a riot/uprising by a few and put down in short order.

[MadHound]

91. Something we would have to see

Judging from Hitler, and other totalitarian dictators, our chances wouldn't be good. Most troops stay with the hand that is feeding them.

[goju]

93. Entirely dependant on the circumstances

Id have to say that the US is far more polarized than Germany ca '33

[iverglas]

113. what "citizens" are they?

Were this "revolution" within the US to occur, would ALL the military support the feds or would some of them refuse to fight, or even support the citizens?

Would they be the same citizens who idolize Rush Limbaugh, think "liberals" are un(US)American, hate Muslims and anybody else who isn't white and anglo and christian, agree that "white children deserve the same rights as anyone else", etc. etc. etc., and VOTE FOR GEORGE W. BUSH?

If you can't persuade the bleeders to vote against the Bush cabal, you think you're gonna persuade 'em to take up arms against them??

Or hell, maybe it's only Democrats who own firearms, and nobody would be taking up arms against the good citizens defending liberty etc.

What colour did these folks say the sky was in their universe?

[mac56]

39. Somewhere, Sigmund Freud is reading this thread -

and laughing his ass off.

[Bridget Burke]

41. Yes, all we DU'ers must buy guns to kill bankers & politicians!

I believe the government has bigger ones than you do.

[ContraBass Black]

58. Remember Ruby Ridge?

You and your gun will have one hell of a time breaking the government's winning streak.

[Killarney]

7. Just know that you have a higher chance of

the gun being used on YOU than on anyone else.

[MrBenchley]

22. Or your family and friends...

[seabeyond]

10. i had to sit with this

female, older, always i opposed guns, didnt like them at all

i have children now, little ones, and have had to ask myself, if someone came into my home would i kill. without a doubt. i wouldnt feel guilt, hate anger.....has simply bottom lined to this person chose to invade space. i have to assume he intends harm.

again a really spiritual person, but came to, life is a game of choices. i dont sit in judgement. the choice of one to do harm to another. and the choice of i survive. and my children.

[Bridget Burke]

45. To be useful in defense, the gun should be loaded & handy.

Just be really, really sure that your kids don't find it first.

[ContraBass Black]

54. If it's loaded and it's handy, and the children are able bodied?

There is nowhere you can put it that they won't have access to. If it's properly secured, it won't be handy.

[seabeyond]

70. yup

tis true tis true

[alwynsw]

99. It's always handy and secure on your hip. n/t

[seabeyond]

65. you know what

i am kinda a good parent. after 9 years i have faith in me. thanks

[mac56]

50. You "have to assume he intends harm"?

Why?

[Used and Abused]

55. uhhh

because he broke into her home in the middle of the night? lol

[mac56]

56. uhhh

Where did she say that in her scenario?

[ContraBass Black]

61. I would hope that's what she meant by invading the space.

If not than there's a problem, because people often look frightened of me when I pass them on the street, and I really wouldn't like to be shot because the sidewalk is narrow and I don't look friendly.

[mac56]

66. Thank you! My point exactly.

One never knows what another will perceive as a threat.

[ContraBass Black]

73. Looking agian, I see that she specified her home.

[seabeyond]

76. again, having put thought in it

i am pretty comfortable in my preceived threat line

[seabeyond]

75. i said a person crawling into window

yup yup i think i was clear on that point

[mac56]

81. Not in your original post.

Aahh - forget it.

[seabeyond]

86. came into my home would i kill

not crawled in window

corrected, thanks

[seabeyond]

72. why, because knowing someone is in home or possibly in home

he must be willing to do harm to meet his end result. cant see that he will crawl into a window to only say, oh oh someone here. sorry to intrude. will come back when you are not at home.

nope, in responsiblity of two little ones, defenseless. this is what i sat with. that i would have to assume, yes assume, this person means harm. adn if not sorry, but couldnt take the risk with my responsibility in life.

as i say, choices

[ContraBass Black]

52. I'd be willing to take extreme measures in extreme circumstances as well.

However, I'd prefer a simple blunt or sharp object.

[seabeyond]

78. lol lol i cannot swat a fly

but i can use raid, lol lol couldnt hit.....could press a trigger. and i dont want any little bullet have to aim thing, i want to point in direction and take down

i am not good at killing. not my thing

[ContraBass Black]

104. Neither am I.

That's one reason why I would prefer less effective means.

[RoeBear]

118. You're writing is interesting...

...really. Is that a haiku?

[seabeyond]

124. i left all the rules and restriction

of the english language. i talk in song, song of spirit. i am an odd kinda of person, and allow my words to communicate beyond the limited 3d world. i believe we have a better language in purity of sound

have to be kinda naked and free of control to sometimes follow my words. many have issue, and that is cool, nifty you find "interesting"

[iverglas]

127. Unfortunately ...

... the purpose of language is to communicate.

"again, having put thought in it
i am pretty comfortable in my preceived threat line"

I'm still trying to figure out what that was supposed to be communicating.

But unfortunately, the use of language to obfuscate rather than communicate is all too common.

And I just can't help seeing something like "in my perceived threat line" as just such an attempt. It essentially closes off discussion, by saying something that is incapable of being responded to. What the hell is a "perceived threat line", and how is one "comfortable in" it?

I have always assumed, from your writing and your stated location, that English is a second language or "third language" for you. In such situations, I exert the effort to find the meaning that the speaker intended to communicate. But I had indeed concluded that your odd use of language was not entirely unintentional -- although the effect which you intended to be achieved by the intentional odd use might have been impeded by the unintentional odd use. The non-native speaker might therefore be well advised to avoid intentional and idiosyncratic odd use.

Me, I just find it disrespectful when someone speaks in a way that is not meant to be understood by the intended listeners, and that's what I often feel you are doing.

And I think you really must have noticed the problems it causes, for you as well as your audience.

[seabeyond]

130. #66..............perceive as a threat.

my post and using the words i did, came directly from the post i answered. mac had talked about where i saw that threat. my perception of threat, the line i draw is when someone enters my home. it is what i am comfortable with, having put thought into it. a threat to me and my children. why this is hard for you to comprehend, i do not know. i dont think it is a challenge. but again, if you dont like the way i talk, that is cool. the choice, dont read. that simple. ours to do. wink

btw, this afternoon talking to a young black man, 20, i asked who he was voting for. and the more we talked about his life and his experience i found out he had been to jail for theft. asked him if he was afraid walking into a home and he wasnt and i told him about this conversation on the board. talking about guns, and how i have to assume someone coming into my home would do me harm, and how sad it would be for the loss of his life, the beauty he is, because i was afraid and wasnt willing to wait to see if harm was meant towards me and mine.

was interesting chatting with him, after having talked this on the board.

[mac56]

12. Pardon me for saying so

but someone who identifies himself or herself as "used and abused" maybe should look at why he or she really wants a gun. Just sayin'.

[foslrock]

25. 2nd...

It would be nice if all people lived like Gandhi, however that is not reality.

And the minute that the Dem's take control, again. One issue, I will fiercely oppose is any law, or regulation regarding gun ownership. Four years of an administration like dubya's is enough to make one a solid believer in the second amendment.

[LWolf]

47. It is reality when more people just "live like Gandhi."

If you warn people off from making that choice, out of fear, no one ever will, and it will never be "nice."

That's the point. It's not about gun ownership, or legislation about gun ownership.

It's about pandering to fear.

[library_max]

131. "Four years of an administration like Dubya's . . . "?

I guess I'm missing the logic. Has George W. Bush been the worst pResident in American history because some 190 million guns in the US aren't enough? What would the Second Amendment potentially do to rein in Bush? You think you and your gun are going to fend off the US military?

[HamdenRice]

14. Why I'll probably buy a gun ...

I wouldn't think of buying a gun for protection. Studies I've come across show that you are more likely to shoot someone accidentally in your family, or worse, have an intruder turn your gun against you, than you using the gun successfully. This applies mostly to hand guns, which is what people buy for so called "protection."

But I grew up making annual trips to my grandmother's farm in rural Virginia in the 1960s. Some of our happiest times were shooting an old 22 bolt action rifle that my late uncle had "bought" in the 1930s or 40s, by sending in box tops from soap. My late Dad taught me and my sister how to shoot and all about gun safety. Once, at a big party/reunion, the men folk had a shooting contest, but my sister, then about 15, won it by shooting a quarter, that had been stood up on its edge on a post, from a distance of about 50 yards!

Because of resurgent wild life, especially snakes and bears, we always had to carry that little 22 when we went hiking for miles into the woods.

I would like to start hiking and exploring that part of Virginia again, and I also, despite being a liberal Democrat would like to start hunting. Not for the sport of killing, but to take maybe one deer per year, plus a couple of rabbits and possums, to reduce my demand for cruelly raised factory farm animals. This would require buying a simple safe long gun. But I wouldn't ever buy a handgun.

[foslrock]

33. the 3 bears...is a myth

Don't get me wrong....fear of the wilderness has it's benefits. However, the chance of having a little eastern black bear attacking you is kind of funny. Living in the west (griz and cougar country), and hiking around the west (most of the times without a gun), I have yet to have any bears come running at me, and i've seen my share.

I can't understand the fear that most have, that big menacing creatures in the woods are out to kill everything. That is not the case.

[HamdenRice]

108. It's a southeastern thing

I think that in the southeast, because it is so old and so influenced by early modern English culture, there were a lot of myths that were handed down. Even though we are an African-American family, in retrospect, I recognize a lot of old English ideas. Not only did they talk about bears, but about wolves, of which there were none at all.

But more realistically, this being the south, there was the occasional escaped convict. One morning a convict (a white guy) actually knocked on our door to ask for food. My step grandpa, shotgun in hand, politely declined to invite him in. The state troopers arrived a few hours later with the blood hounds.

Also, people worried about accidentally running into moonshiners, and while the purpose of a gun wasn't to shoot it out with the brewers, backwoods conversation with moonshiners tended to be more civil if both parties were at least lightly armed.

By the 1970s, the worry was also running into marijuana growers, that crop being the biggest export of that part of Virginia by those days.

Maybe the bear/wolf worry was sublimated worry about varmints of the two legged variety.

[ContraBass Black]

48. Is a bolt action rifle really good for snakes?

From what distance would you spot them? Do you miss? If you do, how fast can you reload and aim?

[HamdenRice]

109. Bolt action is nice and slow

I don't recall us ever actually shooting a snake, but if we saw one, we would politely make a big circular move around them. The gun was more in case of an emergency with, say, an eastern rattle snake or a water mocasin.

We would spot snakes from maybe no more than ten yards, because they were usually well camoflouged (sp?). We had two 22's -- one the single shot my late uncle had gotten from the soap company and the other which loaded about 10 bullets. The single shot was really slow -- put a bullet in, bolt it in, take off the safety, shoot, eject with the bolt; then put another bullet in.

The more modern gun, which was already decades old, allowed you to put about 10 bullets in a tube that was underneath the barrel. Pretty much the same process, but you didn't have to get each bullet out of your pocket.

In target practice we missed a lot, even though we were pretty good shots.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lebkuchen]

17. Glad we don't have these fear-factor issues in Europe!

The only thing I'm afraid of in Germany is driving on the autobahn and second-hand smoke.

[seabeyond]

19. ah and see i like the fastness

and i smoke. so i fear neither of those two. grinnin. hear ya

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

18. Time to watch Bowling for Columbine - To Blockbuster with you!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310793/

[slutticus]

21. I'm packin' heat right now.

I never come over to GD unless I'm fully armed. It's fuckin' dangerous in here!



:smoke:

[LynneSin]

27. I feel more protected because you & Patrick will protect me

I love Patrick from Spongebob!!

[slutticus]

30. Patrick can get pretty violent...

...when he's afraid or when he feels threatened.

He's got an Uzi under his rock... I don't know if you caught that episode.

[LynneSin]

64. is it made with the same material as all his furniture?

:shrug:

[Vickers]

26. I like weapons.

Lots of Dems do I think, but they are worried about mentioning it, both here and in "real life" since they don't want to offend fellow Dems.

I have a concealed weapon permit, I am very safe, I have taken safety and training classes both civilian and military (expert marksman ribbon).

Owning a weapon is not for everyone, but the option is right there in the Bill of Rights, and them fellers seemed to know a thing or two.

[LynneSin]

31. I feel scared when I read a post...

about someone who needs a gun because they feel the world is so unsafe. I don't think they need a gun - I think they need councilling and a free copy of "Bowling for Columbine"

You obviously are a responsible gun owner who probably didn't buy a gun after posting your fears about life here on DU. I would never be afraid to be around a gun owner like you because I know you are a smart & responsible one. But I would never ever want to be around someone buying guns because they are 'frightened'.

[seabeyond]

35. i feel sad, lol that you feel scared

reading this persons post.

[Used and Abused]

38. Thats not fair

I agree that there are people who should not own guns. Those are the people that assume that every black or brown face that passes by is planning to snatch a purse or something. Or who suspect every Muslim of being involved in terror. Or who put the value of personal items above the value of human life. Or the people who think that it is appropriate to leave a gun in the reach of children.

I'm glad I started this topic because prior to posting, I was just going to get a gun without getting the proper training, etc. on how to use it.

If I do decide to get a gun, it will only be used when the lives of myself or my loved ones are hanging in the balance. No exceptions.

[LynneSin]

67. and how will you determine who those people are?

seriously, you don't need a gun!

You need to watch Bowling for Columbine and realize that you are another victim of our media that wants to keep folks like you scared to death. No wonder gun violence is so high in this country.

[Union Thug]

46. I have a concealed carry and a C&R license

I like collecting old Soviet rifles and handguns. The conceaeled carry allows me to purchase a handgun without the waiting period and the C&R allows me to purchase certain 'curios/relics' without an FFL middle man.

I love collecting, I love going to the range. Geez, am i a horrible person? =)

[AngryAsHell]

49. Guns are EVIL!

If you wind up purchasing a gun for home protection the chances are soooooo much greater that you or someone in your family will be hurt than you will wind up using it to protect yourself.

If you wind up with this purchase, please be very careful...and remeber, guns don't kill people, it's those little bullets that do.

[Revolution1]

59. If you are not feeble minded

then you should know how to handle a gun. I have grown up with guns in the house. Locked away safely. It isn't a big deal. The world is not a perfect place. Why should criminals be allowed to carry a gun and innocent hard working civilians not?

[EstimatedProphet]

103. Let's clear up a misconception

Criminals are NOT allowed to carry a gun any more than law-abiding citizens are. That's a nonsense argument. If they do carry a gun illegally, they're breaking the law just like anyone else is. the point is that they are willfully breaking the law, whether through contempt or because they are more concerned about something besides the law.

[Revolution1]

60. A gun is an inanimate object.

A gun is not able to be evil. People are evil.

[iverglas]

115. wolves are big and bad!

And sheep are soft and fluffy!

I'll bet that in some language, sheep say "soooooo" ...

[Revolution1]

51. If you are a responsible individual then a gun is a good idea....

But make sure you have a permit if you plan to carry it outside your house....and if you have to shoot someone outside (Sometimes inside)make sure you get a good lawyer. Defense Lawyers are vultures and can take everything you own.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

106. How do you feel about Trial Lawyers?

Hmm?

[Bridget Burke]

53. You're young! You just may qualify for free government training!

Check with your local recruiter.

Somehow I doubt that an hour or 2 of target practice is sufficient to initiate you into the way of the warrior--to become truly confident with your weapon.

Also, I've known far too many people who considered themselves used & abused--who used their guns to end all their troubles.

[timdoodle]

63. Owning a gun is a huge responsibility

I am a gun owner, and it is a huge responsibility. I have a pistol in my nightside table for personal defense. I train with it regularly, and have put about 10,000 rounds through it. Every morning I take the gun out of the bedside table and return it to a safe. NEVER leave a loaded gun in your home when you are not around.

Anyway, here are some tips for gun ownership:

1. Only buy a caliber you can handle.
2. Become an expert on its usage.
3. Never leave a loaded gun outside a locked safe in your house when you are not around, and never keep a gun loaded when there is a possibility of children being around.
4. Never clean a gun when alcohol is present. You would be surprised how many people drink while cleaning, and then shoot themselves in the hiney on the way back to the safe.
5. Do not join the NRA.
6. Buy home defense ammunition, and make sure the penetration of the bullet is not such where you must worry about collateral damage.
7. Research and understand the "Castle Doctrine" and the law in your state regarding the use of deadly force.

I am sure I have missed some pointers, but again, gun ownership is a huge responsibility. If you are not militarily careful, the gun will in fact make you less safe.

Regards

[Used and Abused]

68. thanks for the tips nt

[Union Thug]

71. Great points

And I agree.. DO NOT JOIN THE NRA!

[truthspeaker]

74. Doing anything solely out of fear is a bad idea

Although I do own a shotgun partly for personal protection, it's a decision that has to be made rationally.

[Used and Abused]

80. That is true

It seems as though some on this board would like to judge what is and is not the appropriate reason to buy a gun. Fear is a legitimate reason, if there is reason to fear. I don't see why some people think that it is not.

All I know is that if it ever comes down to me or someone trying to kill me or my family, then that other person needs to die. Period. I don't get why some people can't see that.

[Fish08]

87. Do you really know what your afraid of?

I think the problem sits with defining what this fear may be. If your afraid simply because the TV tells you you should be then maybe you should reconsider things. Fear in itself is not really a legitimate reason unless there is a legitimate threat. I can't think of any example off the top of my head where a gun would help you protect your family. Seriously. Who's going to try to kill you or your family?

[mac56]

88. great answer, Fish

Welcome to DU.

[LynneSin]

95. another welcome to DU and a 'great post' reply

:hi:

More and more I'm finding that I have less and less fear in life. What doesn't kill me will only make me stronger!!

[alwynsw]

97. Read post #96. n/t

[Bowline]

77. Only two pieces of advice...

1) Learn your local laws. Learn both your rights AND your responsibilities.

2) Take a gun safety course and learn to shoot your chosen weapon well.

[aikidoodler]

82. self defense

Look, self defense is a state of mental preparedness, not packing heat. Take some self-defense courses. You'll find that protecting yourself doesn't rely on punching or kicking ability but the realization that you have options in even the most dire of circumstances. It doesn't take long to learn...and has many other benefits other than a feeling of security.

I won't go into the statistics of gun ownership vs use in self-protection. I'm sure someone else in this thread will provide them. Consider these difficulties though:

A gun is only going to be of use if you carry it. Do you intend to take it everywhere you go? If you keep it at home, can you reach it in time if someone breaks in in the middle of the night? Under pressure, can you shoot straight with shaking hands? What happens if you come home to find someone pointing your own gun at you?

Frankly, anyone coming in my window at night is going to get bashed with whatever I have handy--lamp, phone, radio, fists, whatever. I'll admit to a healthy conceit here--I've been involved in martial arts for the past six years. I do know, however, that my ability to defend myself goes with me everywhere, can't be dropped, and won't kill anyone accidentally during a cleaning.

[mac56]

84. Great post, aikidoodler.

Welcome to DU.

[timdoodle]

85. Welcome to DU

Good Points

[LynneSin]

90. A BIGASS WELCOME TO DU AIKIDOODLER

Your post absolutely rules!!

[goju]

92. I agree

That might ease some fears. Nothing like confidence in yourself to calm fears. And if you find a good self defense course, you will learn defensive measures beyond physical training.

Like dont travel alone, unless you absolutely have to. Dont carry a purse, unless you have to. Park next to a car with an alarm, if you dont have one yourself. Buy a dog, preferrably a noisly little one that is afraid of his own shadow or a great big noisy one that can knock down a tank. Get to know your neighbors and let them know your schedule. Put an alarm sign on your windows and doors, even if its a lie. Install good locks everywhere. Keep your blinds/shades closed. Keep a phone in every room. Keep the tv on but muted when you sleep. Many many other small things you can do to reduce your chances of becoming a victim.

If you do buy a gun, talk to people who can help. Cant find personal help on a message board.

[alwynsw]

100. Good post!

The first thing hammered into us at Gunsite was mindset. If you're not willing to shoot to defend yourself or your family, don't bother owning a firearm for self defense.

The second item that was drilled in is this: Your handgun (shotgun, rifle, slingshot, etc) must be loaded and handy. I prefer a K-Line crossdraw. I don't sit on it and it's always handy.

[aikidoodler]

107. conditional gratitude

er..thanks, but I think my larger point was that handguns are unnecessary for self defense, or at least provide a false sense of security. For the record, I don't condemn the ownership of guns. I have many friends and relatives that use them for hunting and have personally ventilated many a soda can with a rifle.

In regards to self-defense, however, they seem altogether impractical. I can't see carrying one with me wherever I go and having to flash my gun permit whenever I walk into the local Village Pantry. I can't sleep with one under my pillow. I can't keep one loaded in my nightstand drawer. As the father of a young child the thought of a gun in the house is unthinkable to me. Were something to happen to my child with the weapon--and children are persistent in overcoming whatever safeguards you might have in place--I should think I would have to turn the gun on myself.

Hand guns? No thank you. I'll stick with my arm-locks and choke holds, and barring that, a nasty jab in the eye.

[LynneSin]

117. I so agree with what you have to say

Guns aren't problem here - just owners who believe they are somehow safer in the world because they own them are. I come from a family of gun owners and none of them were ever purchased because someone felt afraid for their safety.

[ContraBass Black]

102. I avoid undue risks, and secure my belongings.

My self defense capablity has never een tested, so it may be lacking. However,I'm in far more danger of being injured or killed by someone who decides that I'm a threat and shoots me on sight.

[EstimatedProphet]

105. Welcome to DU!

Onegai shimasu!

[gatlingforme]

126. Have you ever been in a postition where you had to defend yourself?

From what I read in your post, it's a bit utopian. to assume that all one has to do is be mentally prepared is lame. I think it would be great if the attacker would tell the individual that she/he is being attacked about 10 minutes before it happens. That would be even better! (sarcasm off)

[aikidoodler]

132. yawn

Yes I have. It was an attempted mugger who wound up with a broken nose and probably some injury to his jaw. I'm not sure what the extent of his injuries were, however. I ran off just after he fell to the ground. This was several years before getting into martial arts, however. I was mostly responding with adrenalin. I was lucky.

I think of that experience quite a bit. I can clearly remember the way my heart was pounding and the way my hands wouldn't stop trembling afterwards. I also remember the sickening snap of the man's nose when I hit it.

This all happened in the blink of an eye. I was grabbed and thought about it for a full tenth of a second before responding. The only way a gun would have helped in that situation is if I had been walking through the park with the gun drawn.

Now, after a good deal of training, I realize that at the time I was doing a number of things that certainly made me more of a target. I was not paying any attention to the people around me. I didn't maintain a proper distance when I was approached. Overall, I let my attacker perceive me as defenseless.

Now, I'm not going to be able to dodge bullets. I'm not going to fight off a horde of ninjas. Even in a fair fight there's every possibility that I would lose. I accept that. In a gunfight (assuming I had a pistol) I would only put my odds for survival at 50% and that's being optimistic. I'm thinking that if I find myself in a gun battle, I've already done something horrendously wrong concerning my self defense posture.

Is this utopian? Bullshit. I think I'm being entirely pragmatic. A gun in my house is (statistically) much more of a danger to me and my family than some hypothetical intruder. I'm not going to buy into scare tactics. I'll play the odds. I'm much more likely to die in a car accident, but I still drive. I'm not putting meteor deflectors on my roof, nor am I digging tiger traps in my yard because Roy Horn got mauled.

I'll work on my martial arts. I may be training for something that will never(hopefully) happen again, but at least I'll work off my beer gut in the meantime.

[gatlingforme]

133. I am glad you were able to do that - and IMHO you were lucky.

But, not everyone is as lucky as you and certainly every instance is different. I was mugged too. The guy could have bashed my head in and taken my purse, but he just decided to take my purse. most muggers and purse snatchers are cowards to begin with. But a mugging "experience" is not analogous to the bigger problem - i.e. sexual assault, attempted murder, great bodily harm. In those circumstances how can you justify being just mentally prepared as your foremost defense. I think one should be aware of their surroundings but if one chooses to protect themselves (as I do) with a gun, then so be it.

[MrBenchley]

135. Ahem....

Wouldn't you be carrying your gun IN your purse?

Or do you have that Gatling trailing behind with a horse-drawn caisson?

[aikidoodler]

137. exactly my point

The gun would only be of use if I had had it in my hand at the time. It wasn't instantly available as a self defense option.

I suppose I could rig an explosive vest of some sort to go off when I was grabbed from behind, but there's an inherent problem with that tactic as well.

If I had been aware enough to know that I needed to have my gun ready, I would also have been aware enough to avoid the situation entirely.

[MrBenchley]

139. In these RKBA fantasies...

innocent bystanders never get hit, either....although in the real world that happens with some regularity...

"I suppose I could rig an explosive vest of some sort to go off when I was grabbed from behind"
There's a Thomas Perry novel where a CIA-type "genius" comes up with a mannikin of the President constructed entirely from plastic explosive to "deter" assassination attempts...

[aikidoodler]

140. Pardon my ignorance

What does RKBA stand for? I might need to use this acronym in future arguments...

[MrBenchley]

142. It stands for

"Right to Keep and Bear Arms," an acronym often used by those falsely claiming the Second Amendment grants them an individual right to their popguns (mostly by omitting half of the text). There's an entire linked ring on the web of far right wing extremist sites that use that acronym.

Hold your nose--here's some examples of the sort of fuckwits associated with the term:

http://www.v1.net/trt/index.html?page=/trt/home.html

http://www.afn.org/~afn01182/

http://www.angelfire.com/co/americanpatriot/

http://www.CompleatHeretic.com/links/firearms.html

[aikidoodler]

148. thanks.

Thank you for the reply. I hope you don't mind if I don't check out the links though.

[MrBenchley]

150. It's quite all right...

You're not missing anything but right wing pig-ignorance....

Did I say "welcome to the gungeon?"

[aikidoodler]

153. No thanks, I'm full.

Hmm..I just can't get enough of that right wing pig-ignorance, living as I do in Indiana.

Thank you for the welcome though.

[MrBenchley]

154. My wife is a Hoosier...

[gatlingforme]

155. You know my dog was euthansized because he was sick... your

post is sooooo sincere, could you please tell me all you know about my dog Gatling??? please I really want to know how mean it is to bring up my dog> THANKS but my dog has nothing to do with this

[MrBenchley]

156. Uh-HUH...

[gatlingforme]

157. Most of your posts are followed by deletions Insinuate all you want

I could care less at this point.

[MrBenchley]

158. Uh HUH.....

[gatlingforme]

159. can you respond to my post? It's a valid question if you review my

posts from the past!

[MrBenchley]

160. Uh HUH

[gatlingforme]

165. Please bring up my dog anytime you want. your posts speak for

themselves. Thanks for your input. I will make a note.

[MrBenchley]

166. I hope it will become your "fortay"

(snicker)

[gatlingforme]

167. What is your problem with me? Tell me I would like to know .

[TX-RAT]

169. Please explain

Hows he supposed to know your dog's name was Gatling, he thought you were talking about the weapon.. Euthanizing a pet is a heart wrenching experience, I'm sorry for your loss.

[iverglas]

136. okay, interpret this one for us

Maybe our other speaker of non-standard English can help out.

"if one chooses to protect themselves (as I do) with a gun, then so be it."

Interestingly, the French version of "amen" is ainsi soit-il: "so be it".

If one chooses to protect him/herself with a gun, amen!

That looks to me to be about what you just said.

And it sure as hell doesn't resemble any argument I've ever seen. In case that was what it was supposed to be.

"If one chooses to poop in the park, then so be it. Amen!" What, and nobody else gets to say anything about it? Is *that* what you're trying to say?

[aikidoodler]

138. not helpful

Tell you what, let's not dither about semantics while we're trying to have a rational discussion. I know what she meant and you know what she meant. Don't be nitpicky.

[iverglas]

141. oooooh

Tell you what, let's not dither about semantics while we're trying to have a rational discussion. I know what she meant and you know what she meant.

Tell YOU what: you don't tell me what I know, and I won't say what I think you might do with your tell-you-what's.

You're new here, eh? And from what I've seen, quite reasonable.

Neither I nor the person I'm speaking to is quite so new. And this is by no means the first time I've had cause to wonder just what she was on about.

I did indeed attempt to figure out what she meant:

"if one chooses to protect themselves (as I do) with a gun, then so be it." ... What, and nobody else gets to say anything about it? Is *that* what you're trying to say?

That does appear to be what she was trying to say. And if it *was* what she was trying to say (and I might better have phrased this as "nobody else gets a say in it", as in "gets to share in the decision") then she was flat out wrong -- as a matter of fact, not as a matter of my opinion.

If you have another theory, you're welcome to present it. I'm just not interested in being told by a stranger what I know. If you KNOW, good for you; you appear to be better at mind-reading than I am. You might even be better at making things up out of whole cloth, because frankly, I'm not at all convinced that the original speaker knew what she meant, or meant anything at all.

"let's not dither about semantics while we're trying to have a rational discussion."

You go right ahead and try to have a rational discussion with someone who says things like "if one chooses to protect themselves (as I do) with a gun, then so be it." I've tried and failed in the past.

Semantics really is rather important. It is "the branch of linguistics concerned with meaning". And meaning is all I was asking for, and not, I think, too much to expect.

[aikidoodler]

143. now now...

You're right, I am new here. I was unaware you had an ongoing feud with this person. By all means, go ahead and deconstruct her every sentence. We are all just voices in the dark here and as such deserve neither civility nor respectful attitude.

Would you at least admit that you know what I mean if I say "Me think Bush be poo-poo head"? It's not at all proper grammar, but I think the meaning is clear.

[iverglas]

144. have a picnic

Patronizing people is such wonderful evidence of superior intellect, don't you think?

Would you at least admit that you know what I mean if I say "Me think Bush be poo-poo head"? It's not at all proper grammar, but I think the meaning is clear.

My problem with what our friend said had not a fucking thing to do with grammar, you might have noticed.

You're right, I am new here. I was unaware you had an ongoing feud with this person.

Goodness gracious, the straw is just a-flying, already. First a rebuttal of a point about grammar that I never made, and now this. I must have said that I had an ongoing feud with this person -- or something that could reasonably and honestly be interpreted as meaning that. Lemme see ...

No, the closest thing I can come up with is this:

Neither I nor the person I'm speaking to is quite so new. And this is by no means the first time I've had cause to wonder just what she was on about.

and it just doesn't look to be related.

You're right, I am new here.

And while I find chiding to be annoying at most times, I find it particularly annoying to be chided by someone who doesn't know what s/he's talking about.

So far, that is about the only problem we have. I have read your posts with interest -- I didn't extend a great big DU welcome, I must admit, but that's mainly because I don't usually write posts unless I have something to say, and saying "ditto" isn't generally something I feel a need to say. I figured that if I had read your posts, you had read some of mine, and we'd know where we were at.

What you don't know anything about is the deeper background, for instance my actual opinions about firearms and firearms control, or my personal experiences with violence and how I perceive firearms might have altered (or not altered) those situations. You might be interested; I don't know. But chiding me inappropriately isn't likely to lead to any discussion of any of that, you can be sure.

[aikidoodler]

147. sorry...

You know, the problem with posting on the internet is a misunderstood inflection quickly balloons into all out disparaging remarks about one's mother.

This is the sort of behaviour that would likely never happen in person because:

A. People more or less try to be polite to people they are neither married or related to.

B. My natural charm and good looks tend to make everyone want to be my friend.

My perception of your initial comment was that it was focused on a misuse of language on the part of the author, not on the intent of the post. I'm certainly willing to admit that I frequently make misjudgements and have eaten more than my fair share of crow because of it. The tone of your replies, however, make me less inclined to want to engage in any sort of continued dialog with you.

Despite it all, though. I like you and think you are special.

[iverglas]

149. indeed

A. People more or less try to be polite to people they are neither married or related to.

I am the height of manners, as long as I am dealing with someone whose manners do not give offence first. I occasionally ... not to say very occasionally ... manage to engage in actually interesting and quite polite discussions with a couple of our friends hereabouts. Why, DoNotRefill named his new daughter after me last month, not long after he and I had a most excellent discussion of budgies and parakeets, and some time after we had discussed "self-defence with a pregnant woman" and I defended him against my fellow rabid, shrill, militant feminists in an abortion thread he naively started.

My references, sir:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=1259799#1260064
Yes, dnr, I do search for my name from time to time, and I do find what's said. I wasn't sure why a post in the lounge saying, seemingly (to anyone not in the know) out of the clear blue sky, "iverglas is a dork", was still there, but there are just some people whose opinions I don't care about. Like these ones: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=994097 -- the subjects of the thread, not the speakers in the thread. And hey, in my household, "dork" is a term of endearment, and it beats what I've been called at the place that is the subject of that thread by quite a bit.

Now, not everybody spells (let alone pronounces, I'm sure) my name right:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=1329805
... and there's that ongoing little mixup between me and Iverson that crops up occasionally, but he and I are mutually flattered, or so he says. And I was here first.

And oh look, one I hadn't seen (and of course I offer all this not to toot my own horn, but just by way of intro, and to give the locals hereabouts something to point at and make rude noises about):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=1486418

Anyhow, back to our sheep; slackmaster and I, even, get up to the odd exchange of thoughts from time to time. As did I and someone who, sadly, left us a few days ago. I recall an exchange or two with Liberal Classic and perhaps even Columbia that was worth the time as well, I think.

B. My natural charm and good looks tend to make everyone want to be my friend.

Well, you'd have me beat if they're boyish good looks.

My perception of your initial comment was that it was focused on a misuse of language on the part of the author, not on the intent of the post.

And it wasn't, and in fact there was no misuse of language that I noticed. What I noticed was a fuzzy bit of nonsense verbiage apparently masquerading as someone's notion of settling a controversy by fiat.

Absence of grammatical mistake does not meaningful make. What colour is orange: true or false? Why is a fish?

The tone of my replies was positively correlated with the inappropriateness of the chiding sent my way. But we're over that now.

I like you and think you are special.

And also, evidently, rather gullible. But then, I am!

[aikidoodler]

151. yes indeed.

You need provide no references ma'am. I will take you at your word.

In the future, I will endeavor to read your posts more carefully and refrain from needless admonishment.

In answer to your questions, Orange? False. Why is a fish? Cabbage.

Your gullibility (sp?) is one of the many things I like about you. Particularly if you believed the part about my good looks and charm.

[iverglas]

152. and now

since I had just turned on sig lines to check something out (I normally leave them turned off to save time and avoid having my mind prejudiced against people), I think I'll put mine back where it used to be. But I shall add to it, since I was so hugely amused by that rule-breaking post I found.

"Gullability", I think.



Here Malice, Rapine, Accident conspire,
And now a Rabble rages, now a Fire;
Their Ambush here relentless ruffians lay,
And here the full Attorney prowls for
prey;
Here falling Houses thunder on your head,
And here a female Atheist talks you dead.
Prepare for death, if here at night you roam,
And sign your will before you step from home.
-- Dr. Johnson, 1738

"iverglas is a dork"
-- poster who shall remain unnamed, 2004

[gatlingforme]

164. Semantics is your fortay when you can't answer the questions.

IMHO, I believe in self protection with a gun, if you do not like it so what?

[iverglas]

168. oooh, my FORTAY

(Look, I normally wouldn't make such rude noises about the funny errors made by the less fortunate -- it's "forte", you see -- but when the error is made in the context of a pissy allegation about myself, I lose my qualms.)

IMHO, I believe in self protection with a gun, if you do not like it so what?

(It makes no sense to say that in your humble opinion, you believe in anything. Yeah, *I* know what you meant *this time* -- but you really can't count on everybody knowing what you mean every time if you don't take the trouble to make it clear.)

Well I'm sure I don't know what. I don't even think I've said that I don't like it that you believe in self protection with a gun. I can't imagine saying that because IT WOULD MAKE NO SENSE. Because I believe in self protection with a gun makes no sense.

Me, I believe in French frying with a barbecue. So, do I believe that people are entitled to own barbecues with which to French fry things? Do I believe that French frying is best done with a barbecue? Do I believe that a barbecue is the best tool for French frying, in all times and places and weather? Do I believe that French frying should only be done with a barbecue? Do I even ever have any call to be French frying anything? Who the hell knows? And you're damned right: who the hell cares?

Your (or my) beliefs really aren't in issue anywhere that I've noticed. Believe seventeen absurd things before breakfast; I just don't care.

But if what you believe is that a barbecue is the best tool for French frying, *and* you insist on having a barbecue in your high-rise condo kitchen, that's where I might take an interest, if I happened to live in the same condo or even the same municipality. Or if I lived anywhere where I had any influence over what you were permitted to do, since I don't take an I'm-all-right-Jack attitude toward things that people do that endanger others even if not me. (And if you thought I was going to rely on you never to use that barbecue in your high-rise condo kitchen, after everything you'd said about loving to French fry things on the barbecue, you'd be nuts, and you'd be storing your barbecue in the basement, if I had any influence.)

So just to be clear, and to sum up:

IMHO, I believe in self protection with a gun, if you do not like it so what?

I really don't give a shit what you believe or believe in. So so what? back at ya.

[gatlingforme]

170. I stated my opinion, okay I spelled FORTAY wrong. Your last

sentence says it all about your whole attitude. I can't come back with anything since you stated that! Posturing is great too. enough with this crap.

[Vladimir]

145. This is an excellent point

I have been mugged twice. Both times because I wasn't paying attention, and in neither case would a gun have been of any help because by the time i realised what was going on, i was in no position to defend myself. The second time, in particular is instructive. I was walking through an underpass, and as I got to the exit I saw three guys walking towards me. I thought nothing of it, next second one of them had pinned me to the wall and I was informed to hand my cash over. Now had I been armed, what the fuck could I have done? Drawing a weapon seemed like a certain way to end up in ER, which is why I didn't even attempt to use the knife I was carrying at the time. I handed my walet over, got punched in the gut for my trouble and they fucked off. Since then I have both stopped carrying a knife, and learned to pay attention to situations where I may be in danger. I suppose had I been armed with a gun I could have drawn once they were running away but at that stage, I rather suspect I would have ended up in jail had I fired.

[iverglas]

146. absolutely

You and aikidoodler could have avoided being mugged by, essentially, not being where you were, or not being the way you were, in the place where you were.

I could have avoided being abducted and sexually assaulted by not hitchhiking, or not taking the ride in question. (I did avoid being killed by escaping from the situation when the brief opportunity arose.)

Had any of us been carrying a firearm, it is unlikely that we'd be the ones carrying it now -- and it's questionable whether we'd be alive. It's not really very debatable that we would have been mugged, or abducted and assaulted, even had we been carrying a firearm. Of course we would have been -- unless, as has been said, we were "carrying" them by waving them around.

People looking to victimize other people may not be members of Mensa, but they really aren't completely stupid.

(typo fixed)

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

111. Dear Penthouse....

I never thought it would happen to me (snicker)

[iverglas]

116. ah, another one of these ...

?

;)

[RoeBear]

119. STOP!

Don't buy a gun unless you are willing to get the necessary training in how and when to use it! Or like others have said it may end up being used against you.

[Endangered Specie]

120. Have you considered a less lethal option?

Mace? Tazers? Baseball Bats? rubber bullets?


If you MUST have a gun, (and Im not supporting the idea that you should) at least make it a small gauge shotgun, that way your bullets dont go flying into your neighbors homes (or through walls of your own home. If you have kids then you should consider the fact that kids ARE exploratory, wether you tell them or not, there is a chance they will find it, and if that bothers you youll need to keep it unloaded, but, then again, what good will an unloaded gun do you?

"I thought about it today--if I saw someone attacking one of my friends or anyone from my family, I would have absolutely no problem pulling the trigger."

frankily, I doubt you can truly know that you are capable of unhesistently pulling a trigger on someone until you actually are facing that situation or you have actually done it and were able to live with it.

[IdaReggaeMon]

121. do your homework

I'm sure by now you've read all the "it's not necessary", "it's just a danger to those in your household", etc... posts.

If you still want to go ahead and get a gun, get educated about guns. Not just the mechanics and safety, but about your rights and responsibilities under the law.

Also, make sure that the gun can be stored in a secure location while you aren't at home. Don't let your gun fall into the hands of a burgular. Hidden in the sock drawer doesn't cut it...

[gatlingforme]

129. you get educated I am sure. ? what does your post mean?

you get educated to appreciate others opinions w/o using some kind of put down on your part. Please educate me on your wisdom. People get guns for whatever reason, to assume your presumptions are correct is silly..

[Pert_UK]

122. Excellent...another victory for scaremongering media and public fear...

In the UK we have less inflammatory, sensationalist and fearmongering media reporting than the US, but even over here the public fear of crime has steadily increased, despite an actual drop in most serious crimes.

I recently watched Guns for Columbine, and although I thought it wasn't a particularly good piece of film-making, I have to agree with Moore's assertion that the US media (and its current government) seem to thrive on scaring the public into living in fear of violence.

[Name removed]

134. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[udeligv]

171. yes, well

Basically I support what you're saying, but only if you're going to follow through and learn to use it - and I don't mean just punching holes in concentric-circle targets or killing a few tin cans. And get some advice from somebody who knows what he's talking about, don't just walk in and buy the first one that catches your eye.

Find out what the laws are where you live. The laws on permissible use of deadly force vary wildly all over the country.

And, I have to say to you in the friendliest and most respectful way: no, I'm sorry, you don't know whether you'd have a problem pulling the trigger or not. Not unless you've been in that situation. Nobody does. I speak from considerable personal experience and observation. It's just one of those things that nobody can be sure of until they've been through it. Even the military, which systematically and even brutally trains men to react without thinking about it, has never found a solution; no matter how you train them, a certain percentage of soldiers will not fire their weapons in combat even to save their own lives - and nobody even knows how to predict who they'll be.

And I sincerely hope you never have to find out.