Repubicans give the nuts in the country assault weapons.

[Nimble_Idea]

This is pathetic, I'll be laughing all the way till election day though, the soccer moms are gonna come out in droves on this one.

The Fundies have no chance now. Now their only chance is the surprise in October that rove is keeping in a box.

[slackmaster]

1. Way to be divisive, Nimble_Idea

FYI I am a gun collector and own several firearms that were (during the AW ban) post-ban versions of models of rifles that were classified as assault weapons.

I obeyed the law. I resisted the temptation to reconfigure them into then-illegal configurations by adding features like folding stocks or threaded barrels that allow for easy change of muzzle devices.

So the bottom line is I have never owned an "assault weapon" as defined by the now-defunct law, and now nobody does because the law does not recognize the term. (I'm talking about federal law of course, several of my rifles are registered, legally owned grandfathered assault weapons under California law.)

Call everyone who owns a gun you don't like a "nut" at the risk of Democratic candidates losing votes in November. My skin is thick enough that you can't scare me out of voting for Senator Kerry, but millions of gun owners who are Democrats or independents might just take enough umbrage at such remarks to give their votes to someone else. We're supposed to be a party of inclusion, not hate.

[cprise]

4. But this isn't all about you

Is it?

"We're supposed to be a party of inclusion, not hate."

That is the worst kind of sloganeering. What does your taste for collector's items have to do with the hatred toward racial minorities, women and gays that liberals have fought against over the past century? Were you born with an assault-weapon in your posterior, thus resulting in discrimination?

[MrBenchley]

5. What's even funnier

is that pretty much every racist around is pushing this "gun rights" crap. Take a look sometime at the bigoted GOP in the Seocnd Amendment Caucus...or the leadership of the two largest gun owners groups.

[cprise]

15. There really is a racist core to it

There is this fantasy each of of them walk around with, that minorities will emerge from their ghettos and try to take property and women away from whites. Hence the reason why so many of these rural militias are concerned with urban conflict!

[slackmaster]

37. Each of "them"?

There is this fantasy each of of them walk around with, that minorities will emerge from their ghettos and try to take property and women away from whites. Hence the reason why so many of these rural militias are concerned with urban conflict!

Speaking of little fantasies, I'm sure there are real people who fit your comforting television-fed stereotype, but in fact most people who own and use firarms aren't that way.

I own guns and I'm voting for Kerry. If you don't like it, up yours.

[cprise]

45. I meant each of the racists

...not you :) :) :)

[MrBenchley]

43. Not very well disguised either....

there's a reason why every civil rights organization ended up on the NRA enemies list....

Nor is racism the only bigotry they exhibit....the NRA is prone to open gay bashing, and the gun nuts' phony "Pink Pistols Gruop" has pretty much every pro-gay liberal Democrat (including Barney Frank) on its enemies list, but not a single anti-gay right wing humhole....and it tried to disrupt a peaceful Pay Pride march recently in Ohio.

[Jack_DeLeon]

51. Really....

myself I'm more concerned with whitey. :eyes:

Maybe some of them wont like the fact that Hispanics are going to become the majority in this nation and they might try to screw us over.

[slackmaster]

6. Calm down

Were you born with an assault-weapon in your posterior, thus resulting in discrimination?

Very, very sad but still entertaining to see how little insight you have.

What does your taste for collector's items have to do with the hatred toward racial minorities, women and gays that liberals have fought against over the past century?

Absolutely nothing. The issue is personal liberty, not just mine but everyone's. I oppose laws that limit freedom without providing something worthwhile in return. The AW ban was a complete failure at reducing violent crime. It served no useful purpose, and I welcome its planned demise.

[cprise]

10. What serves no useful purpose

...is conflating a desire to own powerful weapons with the discrimination people have suffered because people hated their innate differences. That is a tactic conservatives use to escape criticism (that, and bandying about the word 'freedom' in particularly meaningless ways).

[slackmaster]

17. I understand the difference between innate and chosen traits

My problem with YOUR position is that you are conflating owning a firearm with being mentally ill. IMO you are stereotyping people based on the type of gun they choose to own. While not in the same league as hating all black people or discriminating against women, it is still a form of bigotry.

I am a gun collector and target shooter. I own an AR-15 because it serves the latter purpose well, and is widely accepted as a standard implement for that purpose. You have no business casting me as a "nut" because of my chosen avocations and hobbies and possessions. They do no harm to you or anyone else.

[cprise]

18. That's an interesting way of putting it

So I'm stereotyping civilians who covet high-power weapons.

Hmmm. No, I think I'm excercising good judgement. Those weapons are morbid, period.

And please, don't use the "be a good open-minded liberal" line on me. I know how to entertain alternative POVs without letting my brains fall out.

[slackmaster]

22. You have a deep misunderstanding of the issues IMO

So I'm stereotyping civilians who covet high-power weapons.

We're talking about medium-power weapons that were put on the market because a lot of civilians want them. The concept of coveting applies only to things people want but cannot get.

No, I think I'm excercising good judgement.

By not owning a gun, or by disliking people who do? Either way I support your right to feel any way you choose to about it.

Those weapons are morbid, period.

The morbidity exists only in your head, because it has been pumped full of negative stereotypes.

And please, don't use the "be a good open-minded liberal" line on me.

And in return I ask that you don't try to put words in my mouth. It's pretty clear to me you don't understand where I'm coming from.

I know how to entertain alternative POVs without letting my brains fall out.

I don't care whether your brains fall out or not, as long as you are exercising your personal choice. All I ask of you is to be treated with the basic respect that a fellow Democrat deserves.

[cprise]

34. Uh sure

"The morbidity exists only in your head, because it has been pumped full of negative stereotypes."

No the morbidity is there in all its statistical glory. It exists because people who live with a world-view full of negative stereotypes are drawn to gun ownership.

"I don't care whether your brains fall out or not, as long as you are exercising your personal choice."

Not everything comes down to personal choice, nor do I accept the Libertarian line. There is social responsibility as well.

[slackmaster]

35. There may be a kernel of truth to your statement

...people who live with a world-view full of negative stereotypes are drawn to gun ownership.

Perhaps so, but that does not mean that all people who own guns have a world-view full of negative stereotypes. You still seem to be unaware that you are stereotyping people yourself.

Not everything comes down to personal choice, nor do I accept the Libertarian line. There is social responsibility as well.

You're still missing my point - Owning guns is not socially irresponsible per se. Misusing them (or anything else) is. A very large majority of people who own guns never commit any crimes with them. Those who do certainly shouldn't be allowed to have guns, but that's been the law since 1968. Why isn't it being enforced effectively?

[skippythwndrdog]

57. Time to jump into this fray

No the morbidity is there in all its statistical glory. It exists because people who live with a world-view full of negative stereotypes are drawn to gun ownership.

I was, in your words, drawn to gun ownership, because I grew up on a farm where they were used as tools. We used them to dispatch predatory animals that threatened crops and livestock. We also used them to hunt game that we ate. I use them today for recreation in the form of target shooting, both casual and competitive, and for hunting game that I and my family eat.

I am aware that I am better prepared should my home be invaded by a criminal. Does that make me sleep better? No. I sleep quite soundly now and would (actually I have done so) without a single firearm in the house.

Firearms ownersship is a personal freedom that I take no more or less seriously than my other freedoms - one of which is the freedom to write this response.

[Bandit]

47. Maybe you could back up your assertions with some stats

You stated.."The AW ban was a complete failure at reducing violent crime." If I recall correctly, violent crime decreased each year that law was in effect. It happened to be during Clinton's term as well. I have noticed since Bush* took office that trend has started to reverse and it is not unimaginable why that is.

[FatSlob]

53. Also coincided with more states becoming concealed carry.

What's your point?

[slackmaster]

58. Burden of proof, Bandit

I'm saying the AWB had no detectable effect on overall crime. The statistics for gun-related crime are available if you wish to try to counter the null hypothesis.

If people who would have used an AW decided they were too expensive and used a different type of weapon instead, the ban had no meaningful effect on crime.

[MrBenchley]

59. In other words, slack can't back up his claim in any way

[Blue_Roses]

33. Why do you need all these guns?

Collector...why? Geeze... an extra chromosone gone awry:eyes:

[slackmaster]

36. Nice ad hominem attack

Collector...why?

The same reasons people collect just about anything else: Historical value, technical interest, financial investment, etc. They're also fun to shoot.

Geeze... an extra chromosone gone awry:eyes:

Who are you trying to attack with this remark, gun owners or victims of genetic diseases like Kleinfelter's or Down Syndrome? Questioning someone's genetic makeup - Can you name an infamous 20th Century totalitarian government that justified genocide of millions of people based on a philosophy of genetic purity?

:eyes: indeed.

I love the way some people who claim to be liberal and progressive are blind to their own prejudices. Reading it on these forums energizes me to act more aggressively to combat their ignorance and arrogance.

I own guns and I'm voting for Kerry in November. If you don't like it, you can shove it. If Kerry should by some chance lose you can chalk it up to your failure to INclude enough voters. The Democratic Party needs a big tent in order to survive. Get used to it.

[FatSlob]

54. Because I can.

Sorry about your Authortarian leanings. I prefer Liberty. You ought to try it on sometime.

[MrBenchley]

2. A disgrace by the GOP in every way

and a win-win issue for Democrats....

[comradebillyboy]

3. i dont think most people are very passionate

about guns, except for the gun nuts. but there are a lot of us. i dont care one way or the other cuz the awb didn't ban the features that are important to me

[Lactar]

7. not win-win

Look, there are very very very few anti-gun * supporters. If any.
There are, however, lots of gun owning, gun toting Kerry supporters.
Therefore, it is NOT benificial to bring up gun control. At All. Especially when it comes in the form of a law as stupid and ineffective as the AWB. You can only lose votes here. Health Care and the Economy are where Kerry will get his support, that, and if he can push the idea that Bush has betrayed his constituants. If he mentions guns at all, he should rub it in the conservatives face that their president said he'd sign the AWB (they are furious about that)

By the way, I know a lot of wavering Republican/Conservative/Libertarian people who are wavering in their support of *, because they feel he has betrayed true conservative ideals. Most of them read this site. They don't post (no conservative policy and all), but they do read, and the name calling, and extremist statements dont reflect well to outsiders. I understand that this is a place for like minded individuals to come togeather to talk, but it IS a public accessed site, and I know for a fact that some posts to the effect of "All conservatives are Nazis" have cost Kerry at least one vote, and probably another. When people ask me why I support Kerry and where they can go to get more information, I hesitate before sending them here, because while this IS the best collection of information on *'s lies and Kerrys ideals, the attitudes here can be a turnoff.

[cprise]

11. Actually , the AWB is very popular

Despite it being ineffective. That law was overly-specific, and plenty of people would like to see Kerry support a new ban that focuses on the weapons' killing potential.

[skippythwndrdog]

60. I believe it was so popular because it was misrepresented

every step of the way. Most news stories I've seen about its demise have implied that true AW's and/or machine guns a noe going to flood the streets, followed by a bloodbath. The AWB affected not one single AW or machine gun. It affected cosmetic features on semi-autos.

[Warpy]

8. worse, they gave them to terrorists in this country

all those murderous bozos have to do is show up at any of the gun shows throughout the south and midwest and they'll get a military weapon with no questions asked.

[comradebillyboy]

9. you cannot legally buy automatic weapons at gun shows

you don't improve your argument by such gross exaggeration

[Warpy]

12. You can now

that's what the ban was all about. Gun shows are exempt from paperwork requirements, too.

Don't worry, though, if you live in a rural area you won't be targeted by terrorists. Only people in the city have to face the consequences of the demise of this ban.

[RafterMan]

13. No, that's not what the ban was about

Only its name.

[maverick hombre]

24. About Full Auto, Guns, and the White Man

No you can't buy fully automatic weapons at gun shows. Also, the last time I looked, the loophole for escaping the NCID background check was shut too. Only private sellers can sell to private buyers in their home state now. This is an issue that has a lot of misinformation circulating.

Also...you can use AR-15's for hunting and killing varmint. Its a good weapon to that with. You can also use an AKM or AKS which are the SEMI-AUTOMATIC variants of the AK-47 to hunt and kill varmint.

The average hunter using a rifle will use .223 caliber, .30 caliber, and 7mm shells REGARDLESS of the rifle (READ: method of delivery of the bullet). These calibers are common to any and all high powered rifles whether they look "ugly" and are not politically correct, or whether you go out and buy a bolt or lever action Winchester or Remington. CALIBER is CALIBER. Here in Ohio, you can hunt with a .44 Magnum revolver.

Please stop making generalizations about the hunting and sporting populations. Educate yourselves about the phoney baloney the AWB was about.

By the way, I'm "classified" as a minority. How is it that you can generalize about me, and others of my race by implying we are "racists". I know what discrimination is, and its a place I won't go. You don't have to be a "white man" to be a hunter, sportsman, target shooter, or collector. Say what you want, but its still stereotyping and narrow minded to think gun enthusiasm is monopolized by the white man.

[cprise]

32. 'Stereotyping'

After COINTELPRO, we pay attention to the white enthusiasm for guns. Guess that's not politically correct either.

I don't think it is stereotyping to say that many whites feel it is to their advantage to promote a domestic 'arms race'.

[FatSlob]

56. You can't be serious.

The AWB of 1994 had nothing to do with machine guns. Machine guns are regulated under the National Firearms Act of 1934...60 years before the AWB. I suggest you re-examine your sources, I'm surprised that you could be this far in error.

[skippythwndrdog]

62. Get a clue before you rant.

You can now that's what the ban was all about. Gun shows are exempt from paperwork requirements, too.

Don't worry, though, if you live in a rural area you won't be targeted by terrorists. Only people in the city have to face the consequences of the demise of this ban.

The ban had nothing to do with select fire weapons or machine guns. Dealer transfers at gun shows are not exempt from paperwork (or NICS) requirements. Face to face transfers (that means private individual to private individual) in most states require no checks or paperwork. Gun Show Loophole is an anti-RKBA catch phrase that refers only to FTF transfers of firearms.

[cornfedyank]

14. who needs a flash suppressor, a folding stock, or a 30 round clip???

those things endanger police officers.

[cprise]

16. Collectors!!!

Don't trample on the rights of collectors!

Just think about the damage to our understanding of history if Joe down the street can not assemble a weapons cache er... display. Almost as bad as we suffer from our inability to collect grenades and other types of bombs.

Museums have always been so second-rate at this sort of thing.

</sarcasm>

[maverick hombre]

30. If you like shooting...

Dumping a 30 or 40 round magazine is pure fun! Some folks like shooting a whole mess of bullets. If you're not a shooter, then obviously a 30-round magazine is not for you. But if you have open space and a bunch of scarecrows (pin on whomever's face you like), its about as much fun and like having as much freedom as riding a motorcycle down the open road or back routes. Its just a fun rush to me, plain and simple.

Now I would be some kind of big fool to threaten a law enforcement officer with a semi-automatic rifle. No reason in the world to do that. In fact, I shoot WITH cops and other officers...NOT AT THEM! I'm not a big fan of law enforcement, but that is a job that gets no pay and little respect with your life on the line. You gotta have more respect for a cop than to think of blasting him/her with a 30-round magazine. If you have to use a weapon on another person, by god, your life better be in danger. Otherwise, you're a criminal and you probably wouldn't be reading this forum anyhow.

[cprise]

31. Ooooooo!

Feels like freedom, huh?

Well over a month ago an Arab guy was arrested as a terrorist because he was practicing with a paintball gun, and said he associated the practice with 'jihad'. They arrested some of his acquaintences after that, and two of them got life sentences.

'Freedom' for an expensive, dangerous WASP hobby means jack-shit. If this guy was practicing with real guns... he and his friends probably wouldn't even be alive right now. There is always some domestic 'war on something' to justify throwing non-white people in jail.

[skippythwndrdog]

63. Your racist remarks are offensive.

Freedom' for an expensive, dangerous WASP hobby means jack-shit.

Do you want to come visit me and say that to my Hispanic inlaws who shoot nad hunt with me? Do you want to say that to my black shooting and hunting buddies?

There are Occidental, Black, and Hispanic posters on this board that are RKBA'ers.

I guess that makes them all WASPs?

Who the racist now?

Your comment makes me ill.

[FatSlob]

64. That's pretty damn racist of you.

You really should think before you post.

[FatSlob]

55. Hahahahahaha. Good one.

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: Endanger police officers?! Hilarious!

[skippythwndrdog]

61. Tell me how.

those things endanger police officers

I want to know. BTW. A flash hider does just that. It helps hide the flash from the shooter's line of sight allowing him to see better at night without being blinded by the muzzle flash. Muzzle flash is not an issues in daylight hours. It's perfectly visible to everyone else. You surely can't use one to hide. The law abiding gun owner only want's one for cosmetic reasons. Unless special permission has been granted by local law enforcement for a special event, shooting at night is illegal in most areas. Therefore, someone shooting at night is already performing an illegal act. That makes him a criminal. Criminals by definition do not obey laws.

[AgadorSparticus]

19. the rebulicans ARE the nuts in the country. and i am scared of

the idea of them having semi automatics. very scary.

[bunkerbuster1]

49. Lordy. I'm not interested in AR ownership for myself, but

... I sure as hell know the difference between full auto and semi automatics. I'm not "scared of the idea of republicans having semi autos," since they have them now, and have had them for about a century. (y'know, going back to a time when the Republicans were clearly the Good Guys. But I digress.)

I am hardly a 2nd amendment hawk, and I have no problem with registering weapons. I'd even welcome a new debate on what constitutes an assault weapon, and see if there is, in fact, a national consensus for a new law regulating their availability in the marketplace.

that said, I would strongly recommend that you, and some other DUers, better educate yourselves about these issues before spouting off any more. Here's a good, non-hysterical if definitely pro-gun-owner website:

http://guncite.com

You may not appreciate their arguments, but they present them calmly and without willfully insulting those of us who may be more skeptical or just more restrictive in our interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.

I especially appreciate this essay on the "myth of Nazi gun control"
http://guncite.com/gun_control_gcnazimyth.html

and this page about bogus quotes you'll see among Freepers:
http://guncite.com/gun_control_gcbogus.html

/bb

[moondust]

20. They keep using the stupid excuse

that the AWB doesn't work, it's toothless. Others disagree and have statistics to back them up. Instead of standing around mindlessly repeating that the AWB is toothless legislation they should be passing new legislation that is not "toothless". F'ing idiots.

[Catt03]

21. This is the sick legislation

Washington numnut legislators have put the entire country at risk for politics.

For a bunch of collectors? Please!

The NRA said they would own the White House after the 2000 election. Bingo. Welcome to the Bush/NRA Administration.

I could scream!

[Leilani]

23. I don t believe this!

The Dems always walk right into this trap.

The INTENSITY is on the side of gun rights owners.

People who favor gun control, do not vote on this issue.

The swing battleground states are strong gun rights states. Kerry lost votes with his stand.

Dems want choice in terms of gay rights, abortion rights, etc, but they try to take gun rights away. This makes no sense...you are for freedom or not.

I have lived all over the country, from NJ, the most densely populated state, to Wyoming, the most sparsely populated state. There is a huge cultural difference in beliefs on guns. Why must people from states who like gun control, force it on people who do not want it?

To equate gun ownership with racism is truly contemptible. That is as vicious stereotyping, as the other side uses.

Finally, terrorists do not want to kill us with guns...they want to blow us up in spectacular fashion. The want to nuke us, if possible. They would also like to poison us with gas, small pox, etc.

This is a lose/lose situation! Ask Al Gore about the states he lost due to gun control.

[DaveSZ]

25. "and a win-win issue for Democrats...."

1994, 2000...winning years.


"I am very scared of the idea of them having semi automatics. very scary."

Any person could still buy a semi auto regardless of this ban.

[DaveSZ]

26. Exactly

"Dems want choice in terms of gay rights, abortion rights, etc, but they try to take gun rights away. This makes no sense...you are for freedom or not."


It makes no fucking sense whatsoever.

[maverick hombre]

27. We have more in common than differences

I would say that you all here at the DU have more in common with moderate "Repugs" as you call us, and we have commonalities with you, then we have differences. You can call me all the names you want, I am still a Republican, a fiscal conservative, don't plan to change that, and no way in hell am I going to vote for GW. Period. There are thousands more like me, and belive it or not, we're on the same team as you. To me, I'm willing to take the chance of compromising my gun rights for the better man in the election. Some freedom is better than none. There are some things we will all have to agree to disagree about.

This is the very most important thing in this election: COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY! You guys put out that message, and you will find a lot more "Repug" teamates that intend to vote Kerry.

[DaveSZ]

28. Good point

Ashcroft wants everyone who disagrees with him in concentration camps.

That's a little worse than the AWB, but I am a civil libertarian first and foremost before I am anything else.

[Leilani]

29. Count me in with this group!

Bush/Cheney is the most dangerous administration of my lifetime.

People who care about our country must come together & get rid of this cabal.

They are a danger to our economy, our civil liberties, our place in the world, etc. Not to mention all our wonderful service people dying in an unjust war, that the country was lied into. And the countless innocent Iraqis who asked for none of this debacle.

[slackmaster]

38. Me three

Bush/Cheney has got to go.

If we allow them another four years they're going to pull out all the stops. If you think they've been pushing a right-wing social agenda down our throats for the last three plus years you haven't seen anything yet. I think they've been deliberately holding back on what they'd really like to push on their anti-gay, anti-womens' rights, anti-environment, anti-education, anti-health care agenda.

I own guns and I'm voting for Kerry whether the anti-RKBA extremists like it or not. If we lose this election the blame will fall on those among us who mistake their version of ideological purity for moral superiority.

[lapislzi]

39. Point is, your gun rights are not threatened

No democratic administration or congress has ever suceeded in curtailing your gun rights (unless you count the AWB, which had the effect, imo of keeping these weapons off the streets and concentrating them in the hands of "collectors"), and that is not likely to happen anytime soon.

I don't think anyone in government should be in the business of taking rights away.

Welcome to DU, by the way. You have some 'nads to post the way you did. And welcome to the struggle.

:toast:

[rullery]

40. Assault weapons could be used to assassinate somebody.

Why didn't someone explain to Dubya, that he might be the target of an assassination attempt by some crazed group armed with assault weapons? Why, they might even cut him in half with such weapons! If he had understood that, I have no doubt that the Coward of Crawford would have begged the Congress to reauthorize the ban.

[RafterMan]

46. ???

Please explain how a gun covered under the AWB would make it easier to asssassinate someone than one that wasn't.

[Jack_DeLeon]

52. LHO had no problems doing the same with a bolt action...

[molly]

41. It's front page here in Delaware

http://www.delawareonline.com/

[IdaBriggs]

42. Sane people understand the difference between ...

law abiding people having guns and the local crack dealer having a gun. Anything that makes it "easier" for the crack dealer to get a gun is NOT a good idea in my opinion. Does that make it "harder" for the collector / law abiding citizen? Yup. And Yippee! Yet one more challenge for them to conquer so they can "enjoy" their hobby more because only True Aficionados will jump through the appropriate hoops AND they can be unimpressed with those who are ignorant of the work they put into their hobby (thus enhancing that competitive thing all humans seem to possess). Plus, they help the economy more by buying stuff, and filling out paperwork (which helps to employ people). Sounds like a win-win for me. :)

Except for the fact the stuff that's "never going to happen" to them because (fill in the blank) statistically has a better chance of happening to them than it does to me: teenage suicide with guns increase in households with guns, minor children "play" with them and have accidents (yeah, give me the crap about hiding them -- when I was a kid we found presents every year in December no matter how well hidden they were, but I'm supposed to believe kids can't get their hands on "fun toys that go bang" because of their excellent training and well known tendency to be PERFECTLY OBEDIENT?), and people using guns for "self-defense" have a better shot at shooting family members than they do the crack dealer, but if they are willing to roll the dice on that stuff, whatever. :eyes:

Personally, no guns in my house: I don't want to be tempted to use them! Plus, I know too many people who have had bullets put in them either by themselves or family members (several of whom were buried as a result). Yes, yes, I know car accidents kill people, but I get something out of being in one -- transportation. Guns are a "no value add" FOR ME.

Is the crack dealer still going to get illegal weaponry? Yup. He'll break into the house of the law abiding citizen when said citizen is grocery shopping and take it.

Moral of the story: Guns should be cheap; Bullets should be VERY EXPENSIVE.

[slackmaster]

44. How did the AW ban make it harder for a crack dealer to get a gun?

:shrug:

[MrBenchley]

48. Gee, how did lifting it do anything but make it easier?

“Over the past 10 years, however, the assault weapons ban has worked. It has dried up the supply of these weapons, and their use in crime has dropped by two-thirds."

http://feinstein.senate.gov/04Releases/r-awbvote.html

[ingsoc]

50. This wishful thinking is killing our party.

"This is pathetic, I'll be laughing all the way till election day though, the soccer moms are gonna come out in droves on this one."

Yeah, the anti-gun soccer moms are going to win the election for us, like they did in '94 and 2000.

We've already been down that road. Gearing up for the election in 2000, Dems thought this anti-gun soccer mom vote would outnumber those of the NRA and their sympathizers. Well, we were flat-out, absolutely WRONG - The NRA has about 3 million members, the second largest grassroots interest group in the country, and they are very, very committed activists whoa re willing to go out and beat the streets and pony up large sums of cash for their cause. In addition to that, there are about twice that many free-range gun-rights advocates who aren't even members of the NRA, but who vote and campaign in accordance to the NRA's wishes.

As we've discovered in the past two elections that have revolved around the gun issue, gun-control advocates have nowhere near the numbers that it would take to defeat these kinds of resources, and are simply not as committed. Campaigning on gun-control might make sense in local elections in urban centers on the Eastern seaboard, where most people don't have a great deal experience with guns, but when you campaign on it on a national level, you end up taking a serious beating in the flyover country states and the South.

And the situation is only getting worse for gun-control democrats. This year's Million Mom March in Washington DC only gathered about 2000 people. 2000 people! That is nothing. That isn't even close to the attendance of small-sized gun-shows, which are pretty much the equivalent of a political action meeting for pro-gunners. This pipsqueak gun-control movement is the political force you think is going to save Kerry's bacon? Pass that pipe thisaway, brother!


"The Fundies have no chance now. Now their only chance is the surprise in October that rove is keeping in a box."

I wish my fellow Democrats would take their heads out of the sand on this issue, and face the reality of the national political landscape. We our NOT going to win this election on gun control, we are going to LOSE it if Kerry continues to parrot this stuff. Hell, it is probably too late.

[Wickerman]

65. Locking

Please do not start new AWB threads - all AWB topics can easily fit into one of the dozens of AWB threads existent here in JPS or they can be inserted in the Official AWB thread down here.