Der Governator bans smoking in prison

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

On CNN.com this morning.

I say fuck him. What do you say?

[demnan]

1. I say fuck him

Let people smoke in prision. Everyone in prison smokes. What is there to do except count the days and smoke? How insensitive do we have to be to the incarerated?

[goju]

5. If a law abiding citizen cant smoke in a restaurant

why should criminals be allowed to smoke in prison?

I can see smoking as a reward. A pack a week for good behavior maybe, only smoked outside.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

14. Ever been to or worked in prison?

No smoking in prison means no smoking in the whole prison, inside, outside, anywhere.

With the guards hanging out playing video games most of the day, of course, this means that a lot of smoking will still go on. It just opens a new field of informality between prisoners and guards--the field in which gladiatorial shows and arranged rapes happen.

[goju]

18. Well then

We need to fire some guards. Id rather tighten the oversight of guards than to throw up our hands and say we cant do anything about the problems that exist in prision. No, i have neither worked in nor been to a "prison".

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

21. Wish it was that easy!

The dynamics of locking people up as punishment create the informal economy and legal system of the prison. Sociological experiments have shown that any group of people, not just felons and the bad apples who become prison guards to satisfy their sadism or make an illegal buck, will take on the familiar prison roles and behaviors. The only thing needed is the prison.

America should decide between rehabilitation and punishment. If it's punishment, why not fifty lashes? Or chop off a hand? I'd rather have my hand chopped off than serve (informally) as a gay sex slave for 25 years to life.

[goju]

22. Hard to disagree there

Id rather be dead than do 25 years, I think.

[alwynsw]

27. Nice implication.

Please clarify. There are a few bad apples that work in corrections. The vast majority are hard working and honest. pretty much the same as with any other job.

[gatlingforme]

25. Yeah, you got that, -- it does not happen often as people might think

but it does happen. arrainged less so than just looking the other way --- the mentality is do your time and do not meddle in other peoples problems. if a prisoner is being raped there is not much another prisoner can do unless he wants to be put in solitary too. The only points you can score with guards in a prison is when you help the guard in a bad situation. If you help a fellow prisoner one can expect to be punished too. And then if you help a guard in any situation that is bad, you (as a prisoner) will be considered punk material by other prisoners. it's a no win situation.

[alwynsw]

28. Overall good post, but a few minor corrections.

Inmates can score huge amounts of points with staff by being observant of the rules of the institution. Don't make shanks, don't hassle the staff or other inmates, show a little respect, etc. It won't get you anything material from the honest staff (the vast majority) because staff members can't even provide a light for a smoke in most institutions in the U.S. because ACA policy recommends against it and most states and institutions pattern their regs acording to ACA guidelines.

What do those poiints get you? Not a thing except a bit more civil treatment by the staff. An inmate will hear more requests than orders. He/she might get a break on minor infractions such a cutting line or going to sick call to avoid a work detail. It won't be anything to write home about. An inmate will get merit housing in most institutions by following the rules. That means a better likelihood of being single bunked, handier access to the showers and laundry, and likely extra time out on the yard. It also gets better evalustions for the parole/probation board.

[alwynsw]

29. Not a smart move.

Inamtes already have enough to hate about the system. Add nicotine withdrawal and you got a recipe for increased violence, even riots.

It's also another avenue for the few dishonest staff members, dishonest visitors, and dishonest or misguided clergy, social workers, etc. to become felons for promoting contraband by smuggling tobacco products into the institutions.

Either scenario makes it awfully difficult and dangerous for the vast majority of staff and inmates. Punks will be forced to mule tobacco for the strong inmates. One more degradation to endure.

[gatlingforme]

37. Thanks for your input!!! There are so many dynamics to a prison system

[alwynsw]

26. I've worked in a prison. Have you?

With the guards hanging out playing video games most of the day, of course, this means that a lot of smoking will still go on.

I can't address policy California correctional institutions directly, but I can address ACA standards which are followed by nearly every institution in the U.S. ACA standards do not permit video games to be in the possession of inmates or staff. The same with cell phones. I mention cell phones because many have games installed and you mentioned video games.

I know that in the Kentucky system, video games are not allowed - no Gameboys, cell phone games, or video games in the lunchrooms or canteens. Cell phones are not allowed on the property, therefore there are no cell phones with games installed being played. Handheld video games and communication devices escept for the radios issued by the institution are considered contraband. The result is a possibility of additional time for inmates and forfeiture of pay and benefits (in the form of a firing) for staff.

If tobacco is banned, the only way it can get into an institution is through smuggling by visitors or staff. Either way, the smuggler risks a felony charge in this state.

You trot on down and get a job in corrections and see what type of persons the majority of the employees are. You'll find that they are underpaid, usually overworked, and honest to a fault. They're also some of the bravest souls you'll find. You try working in close contact with convicted felons, or better yet convicted teen felons who don't yet realize that they are not indestructable and care not one bit if your spouse or partner ever sees you again, without anything to protect yourself except a radio, a pair of cuffs, and an ink pen. The ratio will usually be around 30-40 inmates for every guard on duty.

Follow Hollywood all you want. I don't care what you might see on the screen. Guards are not permitted to carry anything with which to defend themselves - no sprays, no firearms, no batons, no Tasers while among the population. Weapons are reserved only for the towers.

I've seen seasoned LEO's refuse to enter the yard to get to the infirmary to assist in moving inmates to a hospital because their weapons (even that little pocket knife) must be locked in the control center while on the grounds.

Go ahead. Knock the staff in correctional facilities all you want. Your comment is wrong and those who have been there/are there know it.

[Columbia]

30. Hard to argue against experience

[alwynsw]

31. Hey there

Looks like I may get out your way after Christmas. Maybe we can hook up this time. Nothing certain yet.

[Columbia]

34. Hey stranger

That's great, we'll have a blast!

[alwynsw]

35. I hope like hell it works out this time!

First beer is on me. I'll drink the second.

[Columbia]

36. Me too

:toast: :beer: :toast: :beer: :toast: :beer: :toast: :beer: :toast: :beer: :toast: :beer: :toast: :beer: :toast: :beer: :toast: :beer: :toast: :beer: :toast: :beer: :toast: :beer: :toast: :beer: :toast: :beer: :toast: :beer: :toast: :beer:

[goju]

2. As long as they offer nic patches or gum

I say its fine. What we dont want is nic fits on top of already violent people. Why let criminals enjoy those "pleasures"?

[LibLabUK]

4. Hehe..

Providing nicotine patches and gum would probably be more costly than allowing smoking in the first place.

[goju]

6. Probably

I wasnt thinking cost, just punishment/reward reasoning.

[JimmyJazz]

3. OMG - a bunch of cons going through withdrawl at the same time!!

I think he's going to have a riot on his hands.

[goju]

7. Does it cover chewing tobacco too?

Is this an enviormental quality issue or just a punitive issue?

[slackmaster]

8. I say "Dupe"

This topic is already being discussed in LBN.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=869562&mesg_id=869562&page=

[alwynsw]

33. Dupe this.

As I mentioned to Columbia above, I may get out your way after Christmas. If I do, and it's possible, maybe we can hook up this time.

[zbdent]

9. Hey, Kaleeforniya - you voted the sumbitch in

DEAL WITH IT!

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madrchsod]

10. cigarettes are used as currency

most prisons do not sell brand names-it`s either the cheapest cigs you can buy or roll your own-bull durum or worse. this will create a underground-smuggling operation for the guards and the prisoners....

[Wickerman]

11. Yet they constucted a "smoking tent" so HE can smoke

on state property. Typical Repuke - stay out of my life - let me control yours.

[goju]

12. Uh, what?

What smoking tent?

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

16. Yes

I don't have a link. But Arnie's a cigar aficionado, and I remember them putting up a tent for him at some function... Someone please help me.....

[goju]

17. Unfreakinbelievable!

THAT is abuse of power. It would be one thing if he were against the smoking ban, but this is just blatant hypocrisy.

[Wickerman]

19. Governor's Smoking Tent Blamed in Flood at Capitol

SACRAMENTO — Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's smoking tent in his office courtyard at the state Capitol is being blamed in part for the flooding of several rooms in the historic building.

Artificial grass that Schwarzenegger had installed under the tent apparently blocked a drainpipe as a rare summer storm dumped more than 2 inches of rain in less than an hour on the city Sunday. The courtyard flooded, sending water under the doors of nearby offices.

--snip--

Schwarzenegger, a cigar aficionado, had the custom tent installed in the center of a suite of offices used by him and his staff. He often meets with legislators and advisors in the 11-by-16-foot khaki-colored canvas tent.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/politics/cal/la-me-smoke22sep22,1,5079926.story?coll=la-news-politics-california

[MrBenchley]

20. LOL

[goju]

23. Well that IS special, isnt it?

And the recall effort starts, when?

Blatant hypocrisy and utter contempt for "justice".

[MrBenchley]

13. Here's a link...

"Starting next July, tobacco of all kinds will become an illegal substance in all of the state's prisons and Youth Authority detention centers. Canteens will no longer be allowed to sell tobacco, and inmates will not be allowed to possess it. Correctional employees and visitors will not be allowed to smoke on prison grounds.
Tobacco is already banned in three state prisons: Wasco State Prison, the California Men's Colony in San Luis Obispo and the California Medical Facility in Vacaville. Leslie said there had been no resulting problems at those institutions."

http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/story/10902643p-11820235c.html

[gatlingforme]

24. Arnold has never been around convicted people doing time I

assume. Or he probably would have not signed the bill. This is BULL SHIT !!! the only thing these people have to calm them and keep some sort of assembly (to many prisoners) is a smoke. I would like to see how many riots end up after this and what the state of CA. has saved by doing this. It will not be much.

This is a dumb move and not cost effective in the end. I am sure there are plenty of guards pissed off that this has been signed.

Arnold should stick to what he does best, talk about nothing and filibuster about nothingness.

[alwynsw]

32. I wholeheartedly agree. n/t