Arafat Scolds Israel on Death Wish

[Nottingham]

Arafat Scolds Israel on Death Wish
Thu September 18, 2003 07:46 AM ET






By Matt Spetalnick
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Palestinian President Yasser Arafat told Israelis on Thursday they should be ashamed of themselves for wanting him dead and appealed to them to help restore a shattered cease-fire.
Israeli cabinet minister Danny Naveh dismissed Arafat's comments in Yedioth Ahronoth, Israel's largest-circulation daily, as part of a "campaign of lies."

Just hours earlier, Israeli forces killed a senior Hamas militant in a gun battle in a Gaza Strip refugee camp. Frequent tit-for-tat violence has derailed a U.S.-backed peace plan.
Arafat has launched a media offensive with a rapid-fire series of interviews in response to Israel's decision to "remove" him after suicide bombings killed 15 people last week. The threat has touched off an international outcry and boosted his grass-roots support.

"Aren't you ashamed of yourselves?" Arafat told Israelis in remarks to Yedioth, referring to a recent poll in the newspaper that found 37 percent of Israelis favored killing him and 23 percent wanted him exiled.

more.....
http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/redir.php?jid=48f54a0a7bc16801

Israel made a big maistake declring that! :bounce:

[Brucey]

1. The chimp and friends have made it legitimate for others

to openly talk about assassination as if it's okay. When will the world stand up to the monsters who rain destruction on anyone they don't agree with? Where is our Gandhi or King?

[Flying_Pig]

2. I think it is more a case of the Likudniks showing Chimp.....

the ways of assassination. Israel has been advising the U.S. on things like this, and, hostile crowd control, plus a lot of other "nice" things the Israelis employ on a regular basis.

[Equinox]

8. Rachel Corrie, tried to do what Gandhi or King would do...

but she was ran over by a bulldozer.

[rini]

15. Listen city boy

bulldozer don't run over anybody! They are to slow, have little to no ability to make fast turns and take a long time to stop. That idiot commited suicide.

[Equinox]

16. Ok, country girl,

What ran over Rachel Corrie? Sorry, I read numerous articles that indicated a bulldozer ran her over.

Know it all.

[rini]

18. I'll be kind

She threw herself in front of the bulldozer, that's suicide, never mind, go to the country and check it out. Don't try to milk a bull though, they tend to take that personally.

[Violet_Crumble]

19. Get yr facts straight...

She didn't throw herself in front of the bulldozer, didn't commit suicide, and wasn't an idiot. Do you think every protester who stands in front of a bulldozer to try to protect what it's trying to destroy is suicidal, or is this sort of comment only reserved for peace activists in the Occupied Territories?

Violet...

[rini]

26. yes

[Darranar]

27. Okaaaaay...

I don't get your post in the slightest, rini.

"Which do you like better, pizza or pasta?"

"Yes."

[Equinox]

28. If someone threatened your Flag that you claim to defend at all costs

(in another thread) with a bulldozer, would stand in front of it?

IF you answer no, then I know you don't believe in what you say.

If you answer yes, then you have every right to defend what you believe in.

Ain't catch-22's a bitch.

Think about it before spouting off about a dead peace activist and try putting yourself in someone's shoes who actually believed in something and risked her life for it.

Something tells me that you'd turn tail and run for the hills.

[Darranar]

29. You were replying to rini's post, right?

n/t

[Equinox]

45. Yes, absolutely...

[LastDemInIdaho]

31. I'd turn tail and run for the hills before trying to stop a dozer by hand

I won't say what I would do from the hilltop but I would live to fight another day.

[Darranar]

32. So Rachel Corrie was braver then you...

and you dondemn her for it.

[LastDemInIdaho]

33. No, I am smarter than someone trying to stop a dozer with their body

I don't condemn her...I pity her and regret her bad decision.

There are better ways to win an argument other than suicide. The object is not to die for your beliefs but to live to fight with wisdom gained along the way to your goals.

[Darranar]

34. It wasn't suicide!

Others did it, too, and the drivers saw them and avoided them. It was a form of protest, not suicide. No one would have been killed, because most of the drivers were careful. This one was claerly not, because he murdered her.

[LastDemInIdaho]

35. I respect your opinion but I disagree

Standing in front of dozers is not an exact science and accidents can happen. Maybe she did't intend to commit suicide but I at do consider the act suicidal.

Others have climbed 5-13 rock routes without a rope and survived but the one sorry chap that loses his grip and bombs is an exception. I use ropes but it does not make those that don't any braver than myself - it's makes them less careful with their life.

[Darranar]

36. A few other actions that are dangerous...

1. Crossing a street: A driver might be careless and run you over.

2. Driving your car: A driver might be careless and kill you.

So, let's see... I've done each of those actions above three times in the past week. That means that i've attempted suicide SIX TIMES! I must be in a state of severe deppression or something!

[Violet_Crumble]

37. Darranar! Yr attempts at suicide are a cry for help!!

I'd be happy to talk you through this terrible, suicidal time of yr life, but I've just discovered after reading LastDem's posts that I've made multiple suicide attempts just these past few days, so I'm rushing off now to ring Lifeline!! ;)

Violet...

[Equinox]

47. Damn...I've attempted it about 50 times in the last few minutes....

I like live life on the edge.

[Equinox]

46. LOl..the logic is killing me!....no pun.

[Fight_n_back]

64. Your logic is

that since others were not run over that this one time when someone WAS run over must have been murder. How is that logic?

Oh wait, it isn't.

[Darranar]

65. No...

MY logic is that since other people who ran in front of bulldozers were completely unharmed, this was not suicide.

[Fight_n_back]

68. Great except

I wasn't talking to you so your response makes no sense.

[Equinox]

76. His response makes perfect sense.

It is you who doesn't make sense. But hey, who am I to get in the way of your "logic."

Puuuuuuuuuuulllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzz


Who are you kidding? I was born at night, but not last night.

[Darranar]

79. Equiniox was responding to my post...

Therefore, regardless of to whom your reply was sepcificially aimed at, I have every right to answer your question.

[Equinox]

75. Oh wait, Yang, it is logical to conclude that two other

ISM activists were targeted.

I commend you on you effort to look at this logically though. :eyes:

[rini]

49. plain common sense

1. No, but hell no. I have no wish to committ suicide. I'd leave and come back another way, another day, another time.
2. You have no idea what I have stood up for or the manner in which I did it.

[Cassandra]

56. I thought it had all the intense detail...

violet is entitled to. :-)

[Violet_Crumble]

58. I don't know about you...

But when I ask a sincere question I tend to expect I'll get something other than a nonsensical one-word non-answer. Of course, maybe I'm expecting too much what with me being here to actually try to discuss this issue and not popping up with snide little personal attacks on people like certain others do. Each to their own, I guess ;)

Violet...

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scurrilous]

52. Blocking bulldozers is suicidal?

Not if you're an Israeli settler:

http://www.sunspot.net/news/nationworld/bal-te.mideast20jun20,0,6899947.story?coll=bal-nationworld-utility

Israeli troops clash with Jewish settlers
Illegal West Bank outpost is first to be dismantled under U.S. peace plan.

<snip>

"MITZPEH YITZHAR, West Bank - They saw the army coming, and the civilians took every delaying action they could: Mothers pushing baby carriages stood in front of an army bulldozer, youths used hot coals to barricade a road, while others burned wheat fields and vineyards to create a smoke screen."

<snip>

"It's my house," a woman shouted as soldiers dragged her from a bulldozer and pulled her daughter from the front seat of an army jeep. A procession of eight mothers with baby strollers showed up and parked their infants in front of a bulldozer.

"You don't have to do this," one mother yelled as the driver gunned the engine. "You want to give this land to the Palestinians who are trying to kill us. There will be no peace."



Rachel Corrie wasn't suicidal. She wasn't crazy. She didn't throw herself in front of a bulldozer. She was just blocking a bulldozer from tearing down a Palestinian's home. Kinda like what Israeli settlers do to protect their 'settlements.' Except in her case, the bulldozer didn't stop.

[sushi]

54. That's a shocking post

The bulldozer was supposed to stop.

[tinnypriv]

3. "We'll dismantle Hamas when you dismantle the IDF"

Still got a sense of humour, eh Arafat? :D

[bemildred]

4. How stupid do you have to be

to lose a PR war with Arafat?

[Gimel]

5. When you do the bidding of a terrorist

You'd better have a back-up scheme. The cease-fire is a scheme to divert the Road Map. That should be obvious by now. Hamas loose power and authority in the PA? No way. They direct it.

[Forkboy]

6. if Hamas directs it

why is Arafat always being told to control it?

I'd also have to say that the Road Map has been plenty diverted already.

[bemildred]

7. I could have sworn the road map called for a cease fire.

[Gimel]

11. With Hamas removed

not directing the show. The PA should be the government, but they are not. Arafat gets his glory from Hamas by promoting acts of terror against Israel. Hamas has more power, and the PA is afraid of it. Why do you think Abbas had to resign? Because Arafat wouldn't let him dismantle Hamas, as it is directed to do in the Road Map.

[bemildred]

13. That's as the GOI unilaterally amended it.

Not as it was written and agreed to by Abbas.
We already went through this. Abbas quit because he
was tired of being jerked off by Shrub and the GOI.

[Gimel]

21. No unilateral amendment

You've got in wrong, my friend. Bush didn't allow any unilateral amendment to the Road Map. Sharon brought his objections to Washington, talked them over, but Bush didn't alter a dot on the Road Map.

[bemildred]

25. The "road map" uses the word dismantle twice.

http://www.democraticunderground.org/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=4537&mesg_id=4537

41. The "road map" uses the word dismantle twice.

Edited on Mon Aug-04-03 07:50 PM by bemildred

I checked it on both Jewish and Palestinian propaganda sites
to be sure. Both are in the Phase one section. Notice the
bold language.

Security:


* Rebuilt and refocused Palestinian Authority security apparatus begins
sustained, targeted, and effective operations aimed at confronting all those
engaged in terror and dismantlement of terrorist capabilities and infrastructure.
This includes commencing confiscation of illegal weapons and consolidation
of security authority, free of association with terror and corruption.


Settlements:


* GOI immediately dismantles settlement outposts erected since March 2001.

* Consistent with the Mitchell Report, GOI freezes all settlement activity
(including natural growth of settlements).

Edit:

Full text:
palestinemonitor
us-israel

[newyorican]

51. You've thoroughly clouded the issue...

with facts. No wonder there is no response. :shrug:

[bemildred]

53. Well, I don't care, just read the damn thing.

If they want the terrorist networks "dismantled" first, that's
up to them, but stop saying it's in the road map. The only
place I've seen that requirement is in the list of objections
that the GOI came up with, which is not what the PNA signed on
to. If that isn't good enough for you, OK, but suck it up and
take responsibility for it. Be a mensch for Christ's sake (to
mix a metaphor, or something.)

[Gimel]

59. Outposts

So the settlement outposts put up since 2001 have been dismantled. Now what? Freezing settlement activity is a separate point, and not dependent on the first, not part of the first.

Why hasn't terror activity been stopped?

Hamas demands the release of all PA prisoners in Israel, that is not on the Road Map.

[Violet_Crumble]

61. No they haven't...

A whole bunch of new ones went up almost immediately after the IDF made a huge show of dismantling a few outposts...

And freezing settlement activity is NOT a separate point. It's listed clearly under the heading 'At the outset of stage one'. It's a simple document to read, so I don't know why people repeatedly seem to have so much trouble reading what's actually in it...


Violet...

[Gimel]

62. With the increase in terror

the Road Map is dead. So why bother now? A small outpost is for self-defense, which is obviously needed, if you've read the latest news.

Freezing settlement activity is not prefaced with the word immediate, however. So it's in the first stage one. So is the total dismantaling of terror organizations. Because the word "begin" is used, does that mean it doesn't have to continue past the announcement? Nothing substantial was done to dismantle terror organizations or to even stop terror.

[Violet_Crumble]

63. Nope, that doesn't work either...

Those new outposts went up before the death of the Road Map and before Hamas called the truce off. And those outposts aren't for self-defence - they're put up by religious nutters who are acting out of a belief that they have a God-given right to take whatever land they want. As it is, Israel not only didn't remove all outposts, but expanded settlements during that time...

Read the document, Gimel. There's only ONE Phase One, which would have ended in June 2003....

Maybe I've missed it, but where exactly in Phase One did it say that the terror organisations had to be totally dismantled or the word 'substantial' appeared? What I read said: "Rebuilt and refocused Palestinian Authority security apparatus begins sustained, targeted, and effective operations aimed at confronting all those engaged in terror and dismantlement of terrorist capabilities and infrastructure."

It appears that Abu Mazen definately did attempt to do exactly what was asked of him and considering the uphill struggle he had, he achieved far more than I expected he could. It didn't help that Israel totally ignored this part of Phase One: "GOI takes no actions undermining trust, including deportations, attacks on civilians; confiscation and/or demolition of Palestinian homes and property, as a punitive measure or to facilitate Israeli construction; destruction of Palestinian institutions and infrastructure; and other measures specified in the Tenet work plan."

Violet...

[Gimel]

57. It's like the teacher

The teacher of an unruly class knows the situation well. Either you control them, or they control you.

[Equinox]

9. LOL, Gimel...the roadmap was dead long before it was "alive"

[Gimel]

10. It's obvious why, also

n/t

[Equinox]

17. Indeed it is.

To bad Israel didn't want peace.

:shrug:

[rini]

12. Talk about chuzpah!

That Egyption terrorist has some nerve. It's a wonder that lightning didn't strike him dead and save Israel the effort. Should Arafat finally be assassinated? Well, as I have said before, jail is where he needs to be. Isolated and out of the limelight, he'll wither away like a vampire in the morning light.

The worst punishment for him is obscurity.

[Violet_Crumble]

20. I'll ask again...

Shouldn't the same be done to Sharon?


Violet...

[Gimel]

22. No

Sharon isn't threatening, and not cowering to terrorism. The IDF mission is not to destroy the PA or the Palestinian people. Sharon has said repeatedly that he does not want to rule over the Palestinians.

[Violet_Crumble]

23. Uh, I wasn't asking you...

I was asking rini. I already know you believe everything Sharon says and refuse to see him for the criminal he is, so I figured there was no point in asking you and getting yet another spirited defence of Sharon - The Man Who Can Do No Wrong...

Violet...

[Violet_Crumble]

24. One other thing...

The PA mission is not to destroy Israel or the Israeli people and I've never seen Arafat say he wants to rule over the Israelis. So, if that's what you think should keep a criminal like Sharon out of prison, then surely the same logic applies to Arafat....

Violet...

[rini]

39. Yes, they do want the death and destruction of the Israelis

http://www.iris.org.il/plochart.htm

[Violet_Crumble]

40. Hey, heard of the Oslo Accords and the road-map?

They're much more recent and both have either Arafat or the PA recognising Israel's right to exist. Try finding something a bit more recent than them if yr trying to prove something...


Violet...

[rini]

48. actually they agree to recognize Israel's

right to exist. I believe (the sky may fall and I'm wrong) but I don't think they have ever gone further than agreeing to think about it?

[MariMayans]

55. oh bullshit

They said the same thing over and over in several different languages. If someone harped on Israel over old Zionist demands for Transjordan or Lebanon and said that Israel couldn't be negotiated with until these historical documents were amended in some public ceremony everyone would think they were insane.

[Gimel]

70. Actions speak louder

Right to exist, but call an Intifada, with all the terror groups (outside Arafats humble control) to join in with the efforts, the avowed "armed struggle". Is that the peace promised in Oslo?

The amendment to the PLO charter was finally accomplished, after much insistance on the part of Israel. Israel does not have such a statement about destroying the Palestinians or other neighbors in the state documents.

[rini]

38. No, because

Sharon is not a terrorist. As a matter of fact his role in Shatilla was examined and he was repremanded for not stopping the Christians quickly enough. Not guilty on all other charges.

[Violet_Crumble]

41. Sharon isn't a terrorist??

But you haven't shown any evidence that Arafat is either. Now yr making all sorts of excuses for Sharon, but pulling wild claims out of the air about Arafat that yr incapable of providing any credible evidence for...

Violet...

[Fight_n_back]

66. What evidence are you lacking?

Have you ever read anything about the man? The very reason he was chosen by the UAR to run the PLO was because he was an effective terrorist.

The only question remaing is what kind of culpability doea he have for what is going on now. We know Sharon's role, he operates under a rule of law.

Pretend Arafat is a Republican and look at what goes on in his country, who would you blame then?

You can support a Palestinian State and still see Arafat for what he is just as someone can support Israel and see Sharon for what he is.

Seeing someone on DU defend Arafat is mind boggling.

[Darranar]

67. Where's the evidence...

that during his tenure as President of the PA, he has actively aided, planned, or participated in acts of terrorism?

[Fight_n_back]

69. Im soory to ask this so bluntly

but can you read? Please re read my post with the intent of understanding what I wrote in the post.

[Darranar]

42. The Case Against Ariel Sharon...

by Darranar
(and this doesn't come from right-wing sites; instead, it comes from my brain, which is pretty much as far-left as you can go)

Sharon is a terrorist. His tactics in Lebanon - a war which he lied to start - were deplorable war crimes against civilians. The prolonged bombardment of Beirut killed countless thousands of innocent civilians.

The best remembered war crime of this vile war were the massacres in the Palestinain refugee camps. Though this was the work of Christian militia, it seems very likely that Sharon knew and made no real effort to stop it.

For these crimes, he should be tried by a war crimes tribunal in the Hague.

In addition to what is mentioned above, Sharon's actions in the Occupied Territories are also despicable. The inhumanitarian wall that is being built on his orders on Palestinian land will not accomplsih much towards peace but will harm thousands of innocent Palestinians. His campaign of extra-judicial strikes on militants that end up killing civilians with "collateral" damage violates international law.

I think that covers it all.

[Violet_Crumble]

44. There's also Qibya...

It's going back a long time ago now, but he was directly involved in it...

Violet...

[Violet_Crumble]

43. Quickly enough?

Hell, they were in there slaughtering people for around 48hrs. How slow does Sharon move? And Sharon let them into a camp full of defenseless people knowing full well what would happen and turned a blind eye to what happened in there at the time. Not exactly something to be proud of...

Violet...

[Equinox]

50. They released flares so that the Philangist could see what they,

were killing.

[dArKeR]

14. `Aren't you ashamed of yourselves?' Arafat asks Israelis

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2003/09/19/2003068368

[Gimel]

60. Isn't he cute?

That little old man? Now he want's to change his image. HA!

[rini]

71. that is hilarious

what a hypocrit

[Darranar]

72. How?

And if you give me the "Arafat is a terrorist" junk again, I want evidence backing it up.

[rini]

73. look

at my posting. The sun rises in the east but I can't prove it because directionality is an abstract. Some people refuse to acknowledge truth and reason. In Texas we call it not recognizing chicken shit from chicken salad.

[Darranar]

74. Got it...

You make a claim and you don't have any evidence to back it up. When questioned, you say that it's based on truth and reason.

What "truth" is it based on? That Arafat is a terrorist, I assume?

It's just like trying to prove that God exists. I have no problem with people believing in him/her/it, just as long as they don't use it in a debate where some participants have doubts about his/her/its existence.

Same here. If you want to make a claim to back up your arguments, bring up evidence, but don't give me a lecture on truth and reason.

[rini]

78. I did

look at "What Israel has on Arafat....but then it doesn't matter because some people refuse to accept the truth...Arafat is a lying murderous thief.

[Darranar]

80. And it lead me to another site..

where I counldn't find it anywhere. So, how am I supposed to judge? Additionally, the excerpts you posted were more claims, not evidence. I doubt the article had more.

[Equinox]

77. Never heard of that phrase.....

but I was never into chicken shit.