'The world must learn from Israel about fighting terror'

[bemildred]

International law dealing with terrorism is out of date and needs to be reevaluated, Israel Air Force Col. (ret.) Uri Dromi said on a trip here this past week. Doing so, in his opinion, will strengthen the ability of Western countries to fight terrorism.

Currently the United States and Europe have incongruent military legal and military strategies, which cause them to lag behind Israel in fighting terrorism, Dromi said. He is working to create an international "consortium" of think tanks to consider how well the law is suited to handling terrorism.

As part of that effort, Dromi, an IAF navigator from 1964-1989 and currently the international outreach director for the Jerusalem-based Israel Democracy Institute, traveled to the United States last week. In Washington, the IDI joined with The Israel Project to hold a one-day conference titled, "Democracies Fighting Terror: What Can Israel and the United States Learn from Each Other's Experiences?" In Israel's case, the legal model for fighting terrorism had to be refigured, according to experts at the event.

Before 2000, Israel, like most countries, fought terrorism using criminal law standards: investigating, arresting and bringing people to trial. As the second intifada grew deadlier, the Israeli military wanted to pursue terrorists using methods approved by rules of war, but there was no precedent for a war between a state and non-state actor, according to Col. Daniel Reisner, legal advisor in the IDF Military Advocate-General's Corps and former IDF international law chief.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1176152848431&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

This guy really has his head deeply buried in his ass if he thinks extra-legal handling of "terrorists" is a new or original idea.

[Peace Patriot]

1. Fascist Israelis like this had better stop preaching to us, and meddling in our affairs,

or they risk losing the support of the American people for other Israelis and for Israel itself. I say this as a supporter of the Israeli people and of Jewish culture, not of the rightwing war profiteers who are running things right now in Israel, and who are in cahoots with the Bush Junta. To Col. Dromi I say, take your fascist ideology elsewhere, and take AIPAC with it. You cannot create safety by walling off others, by abusing others and torturing them, and denying them human rights, and hiding behind the barricades of a medieval fortress bristling with armaments. That way leads to madness. And it MUST be rejected, in Israel and here.

[henank]

2. He's no preacher and no fascist

Just because Col. Dromi gave some advice to the US does not make him either preaching or a fascist. No one is forcing the US to listen to him or accept his advice. But even you can admit that the Israelis have a bit more experience in fighting terror than the US. I wonder if you even read the article fully. Col. Dromi says something that you would probably approve of:

America after 9/11 panicked and they took excessive measures," Dromi said. "In Israel, when you have already the experience of terrorism, decades of terror, the judicial system is more in tune with what's happening."

And why do you bring AIPAC into your rant? Where does AIPAC fit into this at all? It wasn't even mentioned in the article. AIPAC is purely a lobbying organization, just like there are lobbying organizations for big business, tobacco, the gun lobby etc.

[Tom Joad]

3. Israel has decades of experience in *creating terror*. Though the

US has a very long history in promoting State Terror itself.

A hundred years before Kurt Vonnegut was protesting US imperialism in Iraq, that includes torture and mass killing, Mark Twain was protesting State Terror and US imperialism against the people of the Philippines.

[breakaleg]

4. If this is what they have in mind in terms of sharing their experience with the world, then we ought

to say no thanks.

He told the conference that as a consequence, Israel developed a different legal strategy for fighting this new "war." Out of that process came Israel's controversial "targeted killings" of terrorist leaders, which the military is authorized to conduct after ensuring certain criteria are met.

The Israeli Supreme Court recently validated the targeted killings approach.

Just because Israel has more experience dealing with terrorism doesn't mean they've made the right choices in how to handle it or that we should follow their example. But I suspect it would please them if the targeting killing strategy would be taken up because it would give them legitimacy in this terrible act.

[msmcghee]

5. Hmmm. An expert with decades experience in fighting terrorism . .

. . offers some advice to us. Advice that could potentially prevent another 9/11.

The op comment is that he has his head buried in his ass. The following posts denounce him as a fascist and describe targeted killings as a terrible and illegal act. It seems that just the discussion of terrorism defense has unleashed some strong emotions here.

I posted an article yesterday about a terrorist who walked onto a packed "long bus" in Israel, sat down in the middle of it and then tried unsuccessfully to detonate his explosive pack. He would certainly have killed and maimed many innocent civilians if he had succeeded.

That was an overt act of killing that failed only because of an electrical malfunction. It was carried through months of planning to completion - except for that last millisecond. Its purpose was not to defend anyone. It was to kill innocent people. And none of the above posters who were active when I posted that thread had one comment.

Let's see. No comment about "untargeted" killings of random civilians including innocent women, children and babies - yet the selective "targeted" killings of the zealots who organize and carry out the attacks on those civilians when they can be identified and located - is abhorrent and smells of fascism?

I'll admit I have trouble understanding this peculiar leftist style of "pacifism" that I have discovered since joining this forum.

[angstlessk]

6. When Israel stops its aparthied aganst the Palestians, come back

and describe how just they are targeting people who fight aparthied. Sorry, we now see how unjust Israel is in what it has done in Gaza and the West Bank. Suicide bombers is not the answer it is just the frustration.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[breakaleg]

12. Targetted killings is just another word for murder. Once you stoop to that level, you are no better

than the other murderers.

[pelsar]

13. some prefer buses being bombed.....

....assassinations, murder, i really dont care what its called...but when the planners, suppliers and bomb deliverers are killed and the net result is no more busses being blown up....

its a no brainer.....

the "score card is clear about that:

no more busses, resturants being blown up in israel.....though they are still trying


(I guess i would be foolish to ask for other options that can actually be applied....i never do get a serious answer.....)

[pelsar]

14. let me "decipher" it

i call it racism......sometimes its called a "double standard"...other times its called a single standard but "understanding"

what it comes down to is that the suicide bomber who is looking to kill as many people as possible, directed to do that by his/her handler, outfitted by the bombmaker and celebrated by the society as a hero......is not considered as bad as those who looking to stop them....(we can look at how many DU posts condem these people as killers, murderers, fascists etc)

you see, those people either cant understand what they're doing because:
1) not as smart
2) their society is.......
3) their frustrated, so they're obviously "out of their minds" and must go out and kill as many people as possible.

_____

you will note that when the target killings come up..there is no discussion about those who actually send out the kids, teens, mothers, grandmothers with bombs....no discussion at all about who they are and what kind of people they are. The discussion is usually about how terrible the methods used to stop them are.....an alternatives to those methods never seem to be part of any discussion.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[msmcghee]

9. I'm really not interested in your assessment of . .

. . anyone's character. If you want to discuss the morality of terrorism vs. targeted killings as a defense against terrorism, I'm all ears. That was the topic of your op BTW.

[bemildred]

10. How is "morality" different from "character"?

If you don't care a fig what I think, at least be consistent, and don't intrude your own pompous opinions as though I'm supposed to care about them.

[msmcghee]

11. Morality and character, though related . .

. . are two very different things.

People of bad character can, on occasion, do moral things - and vice versa.

An immoral act is immoral - no matter who does it.

The killing of innocent civilians when there is no defensive purpose is always an extremely immoral act IMO. When I see people justifying or apologizing for that I am very likely to comment on it. Especially when it is someone trying to pose as a liberal.

I'm not interested in your opinion of the character of Uri Dromi that you offered as an off-topic response to my comment in #5. Since it was in response to my comment I'd say it is reasonable for me to point you back on track.

I'd politely suggest that if you don't want to hear my "pompous" characterization of your opinions - then you should not post them on a public bulletin board, much less in response to mine.