Five masked men

[ProgressiveMuslim]

Gideon Levy, Haaretz, Jan 7, 2008


This article was originally published by Haaretz and is republished with permission.


Palestinians walk with their sheep near Israel's separation barrier, in the northern West Bank city of Qalqilia. (Khaleel Reash, Maan Images)
In a dirty and neglected room in the surgical department of Rafidiya Hospital in Nablus, an elderly shepherd lies injured, the victim of a vicious attack. Five masked men assaulted him last week. They beat him with sticks as he was tending his grazing sheep to the west of his home village of Til.

The five came down from the direction of Havat Gilad, an illegal outpost in the territories, sprayed teargas in his face and at his companions, and then began hitting them with sticks, drawing blood, while he lay helpless on the ground. Now the shepherd, Hashem Hamed, has two fractures in his left arm, fractures in his skull, large stitches on his head, in front and back, and is severely traumatized.

His nephew, Amer Hamed, and his fellow shepherd Hussein Asida, who were there, too, have been having nightmares since the day of the attack - Christmas day, last Tuesday, December 25, 2007. Police say they have opened an investigation, "an intelligence investigation," in the words of the police spokesperson.

The council head of the victims' village says it is not hard to imagine what would have happened had the situation been reversed, and someone from his village had attacked settlers in this way: The village would have been placed under curfew and arrests would have been made immediately. At Havat Gilad this week, life went on just as usual. No one was arrested, no one was questioned.

http://imeu.net/news/article007498.shtml

[pelsar]

1. do you think...

we can make a deal.... leave the settlements but you get the people who are living there as well and let them get Palestinian citizenship?... personally i would really appreciate it, the last thing i want back in israel are religious fanatics who have god on their side that lets them beat up anybody (i no doubt would be on their list as well....).

[ProgressiveMuslim]

4. More importantly, they have the gov't of Israel on their side. nt

[LeftishBrit]

2. Disgusting creatures!

People like that are just like street-gangsters, only they pretend that 'God' approves of their actions.

[pelsar]

3. the problem is ...

what to do with them.... seriously can they be "reeducated"...or once their freedom is taken away (settlements) will their next stop be jail? Can they even live in a lawful environment?

a lot of them are no more than wild kids...casts off from the ultra religious who found a home in the fanatic right wing, who took them in, fed them and manipulated them.....

[ProgressiveMuslim]

5. What to do with them? Siccing them on Palestinian civilians is hardly the answer. nt

[breakaleg]

6. Then why do they act with impunity in the OT? To think, the IDF is there protecting this lot?

[azurnoir]

7. Sort of like Hezbollah does or Hamas?

Why does the Israeli government allow them to stay? Why does the IDF appear to protect them?
Because the Israeli is powerless to do other wise?
I am sure they have no official value as "placeholders", as the final "agreement" is reached their presence will have no "facts on the ground" value, right, after all Sharon removed the settlers from Gaza, the WB is no different except for the so unimportant water supply.
Now keep in mind these are things I am wondering not stating as fact and in fact I agree that they may have a problem with living in regular society.

Maybe Bush and Olmert could reach an agreement and send them to Idaho were I'm told lots of their American counterparts live:sarcasm:

[pelsar]

8. a bit off topic

but would you like to discuss the "water supply"....a little geology and knowledge of the israeli water piping system will help

he WB is no different except for the so unimportant water supply. this is one of those topics that comes up and never really gets finished....care to?

(hint: israel pumped water into gaza to the settlers there, and to the gazans when their aquifer was determined to be dangerously polluted with sea water from over use...)

[azurnoir]

9. The West Bank has more naturally

occurring fresh water, to put it simply. The first link discusses water shortages in Gaza or the over pumping problem.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NET20051103&articleId=1178

These figures are from 2002:

west bank area 5860 sq km
land area 5640 sq km
water surface area 220 sq km
arable land and permanent crops 36% approx or 2190 sq km
land under irrigation NA

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/ciawb.html

Gaza area 360 sq km
land 360 sq km
surface water 0 km
arable land and permanent crops 50% approx or 180 sq km
land under irrigation 120 sq km or roughly 2/3 of the arable land

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/ciagaza.html

on edit:the difference is that Israel has pumped water into Gaza in the past and the West Bank has not needed this as of yet, although Israel may run the piping system in the West Bank, most of the water is local rather then from desalinat6ion plants. Israel has offered to sell the Palestinians water at 3 shekels per cubic meter, this was in past however and even then the Palestinians could not afford it.

[eyl]

11. American counterparts?

A lot of these idiots came from the US in the first place...

[Violet_Crumble]

12. Do you know if they're Israeli or US citizens?

If they're US citizens and haven't got Israeli citizenship, they should be taken to Israel and swiftly deported to the US...

[eyl]

13. Dual citizenship, I expect n/t

[ProgressiveMuslim]

14. If Israel didn't want these lunatics roaming around terrorizing people, they'd be gone.

they'd be in jail, they wouldn't be able to roam freely.

Clearly, they serve a purpose.

[Violet_Crumble]

10. I'm going to bring the big *T* word into this thread...

I noticed that the response to this attack is to treat it like it's a matter of a violent crime, rather than refer to them as terrorists. Haven't they got the same motives and the same cowardly way of attacking innocent civilians as groups like Islamic Jihad have? So if there's no shyness in calling it terrorism when Palestinians attack Israelis (eg the recent shooting of two men in the West Bank), why wouldn't this also be called terrorism?

Another thing I'd like to point out after reading this thread. I hope the suggestion that was made that a future Palestinian state should take these Israeli citizens was made in jest. The Israeli govt needs to grow some balls and treat these people the same way they'd treat a Palestinian who attacked Israeli civilians. They need to remove outposts instead of promising to do so and either not doing it or standing on the sideline and watching them be put back up, and if throwing these morons in prison is what needs to be done, then they should sit in prison and rot. But being Israeli citizens, they're the Israeli govt's problem to deal with, and the govt should be dealing with them so they can't terrorise any more innocent people...