Israel: Egypt to keep Rafah closed

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"Egypt will keep its Rafah crossing with Gaza closed until the fate of Gilad Shalit, an Israeli soldier captured by the Hamas, is resolved, a senior Israeli official said.

"We received clear assurances that Rafah will not be opened as long as the question of Shalit is not solved," the official said hours after the Israeli prime minister held talks with the Egyptian president.

Ehud Olmert and Hosni Mubarak met in the Egyptian resort town of Sharm el-Sheikh on Monday to discuss Cairo's bid to broker a prisoner swap between Israel and Hamas which rules Gaza.

Israel had eased some of its restrictions on Gaza as part of a truce with Palestinian groups that began on Thursday, but made any opening of Rafah, the only crossing that bypasses Israel, conditional on a prisoner swap."

more

[Violet_Crumble]

1. Israel's making the opening of the crossing conditional?

From the article: 'Israel had eased some of its restrictions on Gaza as part of a truce with Palestinian groups that began on Thursday, but made any opening of Rafah, the only crossing that bypasses Israel, conditional on a prisoner swap.'

I've been told in this forum more than a few times that Israel doesn't have any control over the Rafah crossing, so I'm wondering how Israel gets to make the opening of a crossing it's got no control over conditional on anything?

[pelsar]

2. maybe egypt should tell israel....

to fuck off.....israel has no military presence on the border, doesnt control egyptian foreign policy to my knowledge...and i doubt israel will attack egypt for opening the border as its done in the past... (and israel complained when it did)


so why would egypt listen to israel?

the real answer is that egypt doesnt want the security headache of opening up the border, they have enough security problems in the sinai as it is......

[Vegasaurus]

3. Egypt doesn't want anything to do with the mess that is Gaza

and they never have.

Foolish Israeli decision
Instead of fully disengaging from Gaza, truce may keep us connected forever
Guy Bechor

Today, the Gaza Strip is like a water tank with two outlets. Israel is keeping one opening closed, while Egypt keeps its finger on its own end. The first ones to remove their finger will find the Gaza Strip spilling to their end, for dozens of years to come. We broke first, and because of our folly we shall pay the historic, demographic, and security price.

Ever since the Six-Day War, the Egyptians watched from the sidelines, with pleasure, while we and the Palestinians were pulverizing each other in the Gaza Strip. When we disengaged from Gaza, the hope was to see it connecting to Egypt. Through a very sophisticated move, a mostly psychological siege was imposed on the Strip by the Israeli side, and for the first time the burden shifted to Egypt.

The Arab world responded with fury upon the Gaza crossings’ closure: How come Egypt does not open its own border in order to help the Palestinians? The media pressure on Mubarak’s regime was immense as well. We were on the brink of a historic achievement: Gaza was on its way to be drawn back into the Arab world.

The Egyptians were of course uninterested in seeing the Gaza burden shift to them, and they were the ones who exerted pressure, mostly on us, to secure the latest lull. They did not do it because they love the Palestinians, but rather, in order to distance from them, so that the burden shifts back to Israel – the same Israel that already paid a heavy price in order to disengage from Gaza.

For several months we were able to contend with Egypt, keeping our finger on our end of the water tank. Yet now we realize that Egypt had an interest in seeing the rocket terror from Gaza continue, so that we yield and Gaza remains ours.

-more-

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3558574,00.html

[azurnoir]

4. Perhaps Egypt should tell Israel...........

notice that according to the article the "agreement" on Rafah took place on Monday and the update time was Tuesday evening, before Israel announced it was reclosing the crossings between Gaza and Israel. Couldn't be a way of pressuring Egypt or possibly making Egypt partially to blame if a deal for Shalit falls through? At least for political purposes?

No matter what happens Israel will not invade Egypt, if an invasion is in the works it will be Gaza.
As or Shalit the question at this point that needs unfortunately to asked is do the Palestinians trust Israel to not invade or step up military action after he is released?

IMHO Shalit's release would be a "blackeye" to Israels hard rightwingers who would find much more fodder in a corpse than in this kid being released alive, the same kind who wanted Regev and Goldwasser declared dead to "devalue" them as hostages I was glad to read their families spoke up on that.

[Vegasaurus]

5. Israel closed the crossing in reaction to the broken truce

the openings were the negotiation for no rockets.

Because there were rockets, the crossings have closed.

Quite elementary, actually.

[azurnoir]

6. Excuses whom's and for what?

Asia times June 21 2008 sets the picture pretty well, I truly had hoped for better, so explain why Israel had to do the raid now, why not last week, oh that's right "because we can" thats all the explanation needed.

All the same, the ceasefire is not expected to last. Certainly that is the mood among people from all walks of life in Israel's capital Jerusalem, and it is clearly the expectation of Olmert himself. "I have no illusions," he said in a recent speech. "What is called 'calm' is fragile and short-lived. Hamas has not changed its skin. These are blood-thirsty and despicable terrorists who even today are doing everything they can to harm Israeli civilians. Hamas ... will be responsible for any violation of the 'quiet'."

This last condition effectively sets Hamas up for a fall, for, contrary to perceptions, Hamas is itself not in full control of the Gaza Strip, which is home to numerous other militant groups which do not answer blindly to Hamas' commands. Olmert is effectively making Hamas responsible for the actions of people over whom they have little control; and by enforcing such a restrictive condition will greatly increase the chances of a violation of the ceasefire.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JF21Ak01.html

[pelsar]

7. israel has raids...

almost nightly...nothing special at all about the last raid......you'll have to think of some other way of blaming israel for IJ shooting rockets in to israel....i have full confidence that you'll find something else....

[azurnoir]

10. So you are saying that Israel

kills Palestinians on a daily basis? Now who is it again that is supposed to "do nothing"?

[pelsar]

11. accuracy...remember?

i wrote raids...that means arrests.....someone gets killed usually when something goes wrong or the Palestinian pulls out a gun....
______

agreement is an agreement...i still get the impression that you dont believe hamas has to stick to their side of the agreement but israel does...why is that?

[azurnoir]

14. For an accuracy cop

you should take your own advice

i wrote raids...that means arrests.....someone gets killed usually when something goes wrong or the Palestinian pulls out a gun....

if you actually meant arrests why did you not say that?
______

[pelsar]

16. raids are more descriptive......

its not a policeman walking up to a house, its a military force sneaking up at 2:00am and surprising someone.......the word raid is a better description then "arrests" which has civilian connotations..

try again.....

[azurnoir]

18. try again for what

you were inaccurate, you corrected yourself with what could have been in your first post, but I'll accept it anyway.

[pelsar]

19. i was far more descriptive the second time around...

which was needed to clarify what i wrote....fair enough (i hadnt realized that it wasnt clear..but that would be because its very familiar to me and hadnt realized it could be misunderstood)

[eyl]

12. Hamas managed to successfully crush

Fatah's forces in Gaza but is incapable of facing fown the much smaller IJ?

And if it can't then what's the point of a cease-fire in the first place?

[eyl]

13. As for your last paragraph

While I understand the parents' stance, if it were up to me (and assuming the available intelligence supports it) this would have been done months ago. The fact that Israel is willing to release a convicted child murderer in exchange for, most likely, bodies - and especially that Israel did not manage to get confirmation on the hostages' status before the deal was concluded -is a disgrace.

[azurnoir]

15. Then you approve of having them declared dead

against the families wishes and even though it not known for sure as a political bargaining chip?

[eyl]

17. Declaring them dead is a matter of fact (or at least probability)

As such, to be blunt, the families' wishes have little sway. And given that reportedly the consensus of available information is that they're dead....

[Scurrilous]

8. Someone should inform the Schalit family that Israel doesn't have any control over Rafah crossing.

From Saturday:

<snip>

"Aviva and Noam Schalit, the parents of IDF soldier Gilad Schalit, petition the High Court in an effort to prevent Israel from permitting the opening of the Rafah border crossing in its truce agreement with Hamas. The Schalit family demand that the Rafah border crossing should remain closed until significant progress has been made to bring about the release of their son."

http://www.infolive.tv/en/infolive.tv-24319-israelnews-schalit-family-petitions-high-court-prevent-opening-rafah-crossing-r

[pelsar]

9. so explain...

since you obviously believe israel controls the rafah crossing...how does that work?...are there israeli troops there?..does israel control the Egyptian troops there?..does israel control egyptian foreign policy? Is Israel threatening Egypt?

and when egypt did in fact open it (several times) and israel protested...that was all a show?
____

i believe this is the part where i dont really get an answer......