Peter Cook's expert analysis of Gaza Flotilla footage

[Swede]

Maritime security expert Peter Cook gives his analysis of what took place on the Gaza Flotilla, including details of how such operations are conducted and a detailed explanation of the video footage.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkcE47eURhY

[hlthe2b]

1. Care to give a bottom line summary for those of us who can't watch?

[BootinUp]

2. IDF was put in a spot he wouldn't want to go with paint guns

well planned counter-offensive, some activists on the ship wearing full body protection/gas masks, speculation on deaths: the Israelis pulled their secondary weapon after they were being overwhelmed.

[sabrina 1]

5. And that analysis conflicts with the actual news reports from the ship

as the situation was developing. Why didn't he look at that footage which had three reporters on the ship? He doesn't explain why there people dead and wounded before the commandos landed?

[EFerrari]

8. That's right. To be fair, he was asked to respond to that video

which started after those events.

[BootinUp]

9. The one with little visual information

and 1 or 2 guys describing the actual events? Video of the actual action is probably of higher weight with regards to evidence. The video you mention is mostly useful as eyewitness testimony.

[EFerrari]

11. We don't have the video of the actual action. We have the portion

the IDF wanted us to see.

[BootinUp]

14. the portion you would like to deny is evidence

of what happened?

[EFerrari]

17. I hope you don't sprain something twisting like that. nt

[BootinUp]

18. juust using logic borrowed from Dawkins

a hole or gap in evidence does not by itself discredit the evidence we have.

[EFerrari]

21. Of course it does, particularly a film clip. As one Canadian eyewitness said:

"The Israelis cannot be trusted to conduct their own investigation. They seized evidence, destroyed evidence, seized and destroyed cameras, computers, every single camera and computer onboard. They selectively put out pictures. For example, I’ve seen pictures in the papers of knives that they collected—well, which is unsurprising. We had knives in the kitchen. It’s to cut cucumbers, to cut tomatoes. And all of the knives are indeed kitchen knives."

Kevin Ovenden on Democracy Now!
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/4/as_obama_refuses_to_condemn_flotilla

[BootinUp]

22. No it doesn't. nt

[EFerrari]

24. Who could possibly question these brave, professional commandos?

AMY GOODMAN: What happened to you after that and to the people around you? Were you, yourself, beaten or hurt physically?

KEVIN NEISH: Well, physically, I was trussed up with plastic handcuffs for twenty-five hours and refused access to any wash facility for fifteen hours. You had to beg, beg the Israeli captors. I had to grovel, basically, to get access to a bathroom. So I wouldn’t grovel. I’d basically—well, I just peed on the floor wherever I could kind of thing. But you didn’t get up, you didn’t rise up, or you got threatened with clubs or a dog or a gun to your head or whatever.

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/4/as_obama_refuses_to_condemn_flotilla

[EFerrari]

7. Cook was asked how a commander should have approached this operation.

He says, the commander would have limited resources that he would need to concentrate, i.e., to land on the deck to be able to take control as quickly as possible. And then bring in additional forces to stabilize the situation.

He is then asked to comment on the first men landing -- without reference to how the approach to the vessel was made, ie, gas, stun grenades, live fire killing at least one individual.

He notes the troops are landing away from the helm and into a 'hornet's nest' and being quickly overwhelmed. The landers seem to be using paint guns at first which presumably were meant to sting and shock the passengers but it's not working. Passengers are wearing life jackets and some have on gas masks so the paint gun has no effect on some of them.

The interviewer asks, so how come ten people died? Cook says while they seem to have weapons meant to disable and distract, they all would have a secondary weapon with which to protect themselves.

Last question, Cook is a piracy expert, was the boarding legal? He says the flag of the ship determines the venue. I didn't catch the name he said but the two of them seemed to think it was an Indian flag. I believe that is incorrect, the ship's registry was Turkish.

:hi:

[hlthe2b]

15. thank you very much...

for that summary

[EFerrari]

16. You're welcome. I'm sorry it was slow in coming. n/t

[sabrina 1]

3. He's only reviewing the one minute Israeli footage. He is not reviewing

the actual news footage that was live streamed BEFORE the commandos landed on the ship. I am talking about the footage that the world was watching and from where the news of the deaths of the first two activists was reported. So it's kind of worthless as analysis of the situation.

Nearly every eyewitness, including the reporters at the scene, have said that there was gunfire from the Israeli boats before those commandos landed. This video analysis didn't deal with anything of importance in terms of what actually happened.

[BootinUp]

4. Because it always makes sense to fire real guns first

paint guns second. Wake up and smell the BS.

[sabrina 1]

6. I'm not sure what you mean. It makes sense to fire on an

unarmed, humanitarian ship in International Waters?

Is that what you are saying? Because that is what pirates do, should we now conclude that they are 'making sense' also? Iow, do these rules now apply to anyone on the high seas?

[EFerrari]

10. Suppressive fire and yes, it has been documented. Wake up and smell the denial.

[BootinUp]

12. Will the "peace activists" get their story straight?

"The defense of the boat was quite well organized," said Espen Goffeng, a 38-year-old activist from Norway who sailed aboard the Mavi Marmara. "There was a plan to keep soldiers off the boat."

Goffeng said passengers aboard the lead ship Mavi Marmara at first successfully repelled Israeli troops on boats. Then, he said, soldiers began their helicopters assault on the vessel.

"They started off with some kind of paintball bullets with glass in them that left terrible soft tissue wounds. And then rubber bullets. And then live ammunition afterwards. And that's when things started to get really dangerous," Goffeng added.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/04/gaza.raid.autopsies/index.html?hpt=T2

[EFerrari]

13. There were nearly 700 people on that vessel. Their accounts will vary

depending on their location.

But, there are several credible accounts, notably from journalists -- which is why the IDF stole all their equipment right off the bat.

[sabrina 1]

19. Again, that is dealing only with the point at which the commandos

boarded the ship. That account does gel with other accounts by eyewitnesses. All have said they were instructed to 'passively resist' with their bodies, should the Israelis board the ship. They expected what most protestors expect, some pushing and shoving, gas etc. (which is why they had gas masks).

What they didn't expect was that the ship would be fired on first or that people would be wounded and killed. Once that happened, they excercised their right to defend themselves and grabbed anything that was around, as they knew now that their lives were in danger.

In the actual news footage it is at least 4.55 mins into the reporting on that tape (and they did ask for help from the 'authorities' emphasizing they did not mean the Israeli authorities), where people have clearly been wounded and first one, then a second person (towards the end of the tape) are reported dead. The reporters and the captain announce that the commandos have landed at that point in the tape, and the captain is heard calming them down and telling them to surrender. That tape ended when the commandos are heard telling everyone to be quiet and communications are cut off. At that point, the captain was obviously not wounded, but was later reported to have been wounded. Why would they shoot the captain who was actually trying to keep things calm and encourage everyone to surrender? That is another question that has not been answered yet.

Then the Israelis released this one minute tape and as expected, the U.S. media doesn't show the original news reporting.

It doesn't matter though, most of the world saw the footage so they will form their own conclusions, and Americans are no longer easily fooled by controlled press releases. From my viewing of the tape, it seems that people were killed and wounded before the boarding. However, it is possible that commandos landed on another part of the ship before the reporters were aware of it.

All we want is the truth, no more biased reporting from either side.

[BootinUp]

20. The reason it doesn't matter

is that you all will deny whatever doesn't fit your story no matter how solid it is.

[EFerrari]

23. That's not a reason but your fabrication, which seems to be all you have. n/t

[sabrina 1]

25. What is MY story? I wasn't there and I am assuming, neither

were you. I am informing you of the fact that there is news footage of the events as they unfolded and that that footage seems to show that people were injured and killed before the commandos landed.

Now if you don't like the fact that it escaped being confiscated and/or destoryed along with all the other evidence, tweets, emails etc. then it is your motives that are in question, not mine.

I have looked at this video analysis and pointed out that it deals with only one part of what happened that night and that there is other footage that suggests there was a reason why the activists defended themselves.

Iow, the case will not be closed by one minute of video. People died, many are wounded, evidence has been confiscated. It is not the end of the story. But one thing is clear, no Israeli died that night, thankfully, only unarmed activists tragically.

There will have to be a thorough, independent investigation with eyewitness accounts and the confiscated material needs to be returned and reveiwed and presented as part of the investigation. The world will demand it. Until then, this piece of footage is worthless as anything other than one very small piece of the evidence. And trying to present it as anything else, loses you credibility.

[BootinUp]

26. Please cite the location in the video that seems to show this

so I can further discredit your argument.

[sabrina 1]

29. You can find it here, along with a report from one of the

reporters who was there than night, stating that the Israelis did fire on the ship before boarding it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/31/mavi-marmara-video-israel-news-gaza-flotilla_n_595250.html

In the video from that night from the press, the reports are in three different languages, Turkish, English and Arabic. I have seen translations of the reporting in a diary at Daily Kos by several commenters who are fluent in the languages. I hope to see some transcrips as they are vital evidence of what actually happened. You can also see that the firing continued from the Israeli ships even after the white flag was raised.

I have to run ... but this link gives both that tape and the Israeli tape ..

[BootinUp]

34. So you can't point to the part

that supports your argument? Because I think we need to narrow it down. Just the timestamp where the evidence is located would suffice. I think its all just verbal reporting, if thats what is, its no better than any other eye witness accounts and should be weighed along with ALL other eye witness accounts. Any eye witness accounts that do not jive with physical evidence or actual video evidence would be considered without strong weight.

[sabrina 1]

39. Approx. 4.55 on the tape, minutes after people were reported wounded and

killed, word comes that the Commandos have boarded the ship. Odd that you could not find that for yourself.

[EFerrari]

27. You know what I think is the sickest part of this whole thing

apart, obviously, from the needless deaths?

Some passengers got the downed IDF troops out of the middle of the fighting and into a hallway. They are then accused by the utterly mendacious propagandists at the IDF of attempting to take hostages. One doctor is shot while he is tending to an injured commando.

How sick is that.

This has got to be one of the worst things I've ever seen and I'm 54.

[sabrina 1]

28. I didn't know about the doctor, that is awful!

I am ashamed that I have not kept up with this situation in Gaza except to read a report every now and then, and it is so upsetting, and it feels so hopeless to try to do anything about it. But I am so proud of those civilians from 42 different countries who did not forget and who are doning what governments should be doing, trying to end that illegal blockade.

This incident has enraged people around the world, but it is sad that so many had to die before we all sit up and start paying attention again. They are heroes! And I agree, it is among the worst things I have seen, especially now the lies and cover ups. That only angers people more.

[EFerrari]

30. I found this write up. Unspeakable.

snip

Yildirim said an Indonesian doctor was shot in the stomach as he helped a wounded Israeli soldier.

"As the clash was going on upstairs on the deck, we were taking care of Israelis downstairs, as we gave them water, we were informed that our friends died there," Yildirim said.

"We told the Indonesian doctor to take the soldier back. He took his patient back, and as he was going back, they shot him five times in the stomach," he said.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE6522OV20100603

[sabrina 1]

40. Thank you ~

That is just plain insanity. I wonder if that doctor is alive? Only Turks were mentioned as among the dead. And reports from foreign news media say that some people are not accounted for.

[BootinUp]

32. the stupidest part

where people thought they could incite a melee with armed commandos following their orders and tragic, unplanned, indiscriminant death wouldn't occur. Of course it was planned on the part of those desiring martrydom.

[EFerrari]

33. Except that didn't happen. But keep flapping away.

I'm sure there are 10 or 20 people who believe you.

These funeral goers in Istanbul do not, for example.

[BootinUp]

35. Actually, I think they mostly know what happened

thats why the dead are being called heroes and martyrs, and Hamas are "freedom fighters".

[EFerrari]

36. Dog whistle much?

[Ignis]

37. They successfully repelled the boarders at first.

And man oh man, that must have REALLY pissed off the IDF! :grr:

How DARE these civilians with their sticks keep a high-tech, high-testosterone group of commandos from boarding their ship in international waters?!?

So the IDF started shooting. At civilians. With live fire. From the helicopter.

DAMN, that's some macho shit! They sure showed them! USA USA--er, ISRAEL ISRAEL!

Boys and their fucking toys. :puke:

[Wizard777]

31. The difference between a paint ball and a bullet.

A bullet is propelled by hot gases.
A paint ball is propelled by cool gases.

You think the inventors of the Uzi could supe up a paint ball gun too? I know I could make one damned lethal. What was the PSI on their tanks and what gas was in them?

[hayu_lol]

38. The paintball guns were being used for a purpose...

with all the passengers milling around, all wearing nondescript clothing, yelling and screaming, there needed to be some way to mark those activists who were really causing the military problems. What better way to mark the troublemakers than a paint marker? Non-lethal for the most part as well.

Sounds like a good idea. Went bad since the 'activists' were badly out of control. Hence, the livefire with real ammunition.

The ships had to be turned to head for the designated port set up to receive them. Either under their own power or to be towed. Control of the bridge, and quickly, was a mandatory target for the boarders.

The fact is that the IDF attempted to use non-lethal ammo failed because of the actions of the activists among the protestors. To protect their own troops, live ammo was used. In a crowded ship, narrow crowded corridors, pretty hard to maintain control with a constantly shifting mass of people, none of whom were identified.

We still do not have sufficient info to make any determination either way.

Starting to sound like a resurgance of the 3rd Reich around here.