BBC (Saturday): Palestinians tie talks to barrier

[Jack Rabbit]

From the BBC Online
Dated Saturday November 29 16:36 GMT (8:36 am PST)

Palestinians tie talks to barrier

The Palestinian prime minister has said that Israel's security fence must be scrapped as a condition for any future peace negotiations.
Ahmed Qurei was speaking hours before he was due to meet US peace envoy William Burns in neighbouring Jordan.
Israel has vowed to finish the barrier in the face of strong condemnation.
Efforts were under way both to prepare the ground for possible talks with Israel and secure a new truce among Palestinian militants, Mr Qurei added.

Read more.

[drdon326]

1. Palestinians tie talks to ......

barrier
settlements
prisoners
the right of return
work permits
targeting terrorists
compensation
israels right to exist
arafats freedom to travel
jersusalem

and the right for a good corned beef sandwich.

Anything but negotiate in good faith.

[bluesoul]

2. Since Israel is the one

building a wall, occupying foreign land and building illegal settlements, I say the Palestinians have a case and right to such demands...

[drdon326]

5. And other than whine ....

What have they done to demand ANYTHING??

Have they arrested one terrorist??

Have they outlawed hamas,ij, and al-aqsa MURDERS brigade??

Have they stopped paying money to them??

Have they stopped putting out anti-semitic shit in their
textbooks??

Have they stopped celebrating the deaths of innocent israelis?

Have the stopped putting out TV shows that call jews the descendants
of "pigs and monkeys"?

Have they stopped supporting terrorists??

Have they even SERIOUSLY CONDEMNED terrorism??
(and lip service doesnt count)

[bluesoul]

6. When Israel starts to respect it's obligations

most if not all of those things will be history...

[drdon326]

8. Yeah......suuuuuuuure.....

you really have your finger on the pulse of the problem.

:eyes:

[Jack Rabbit]

7. You've both established something

You've both established that each side has legitimate grievences against the other.

Perhaps they should talk about it? That seems to be the point.

[drdon326]

9. rini said it best...

the palestinians put down their weapons, there would be no war.

the israels put down their weapons, there would be no israel.

I fully believe that.

[bluesoul]

10. You're forgetting the occupation

that has been going on for 30 year. The Palestinians weren't the ones that started the mess...

[drdon326]

11. You think so, huh???

nah....probably more likely started in 1948....
the day Israel was born.

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/1129.html#article

[Jack Rabbit]

12. That doesn't say it very well

That's just an inane slogan and rank propaganda; it is hardly a firm basis for any serious discussion.

A good counter question would be: If the Palestinians put down their weapons, would there ever be a Palestine? Or would the Israeli rightwing just say "Thanks for making this easy" and continue to bulldoze houses and build settlements in Palestinian territory accessed by segregated roads? If the Palestinians simply put down their arms, what kind of peace would Sharon impose on them?

The Palestinians are not fighting because they are a bunch or mean-spiritied bastards (although, of course, some of them are) any more than most Israelis are fighting because they are mean-spirited bastards (although, of course, some of them are).

Both sides are taking up arms against the other because they fear for their collective welfare from the worst elements of the other side, and with good reason.

At the present time, those bad elements have entirely too much influence over both Sharon and Arafat. Don't exect either side to just put down their weapons when what each expects as a result is to lose their homes.

[sushi]

18. Excellent post!

I agree. Israel expects the Palestinian extremists to put down their weapons and trust Israel to do the right thing. Even with Hamas still active Israel takes more land, what if there's no more threat of suicide bombing? As you say, "Thanks for making it easy."

What kind of peace would Sharon impose on them?

Good question. Most probably the kind of state you and I would reject. The kind of state where Israel is in control of just about everything.

[sushi]

17. In other words

the situation doesn't change. Is that what you want?

There should be no conditions at all, by either side. They should just sit down together, and talk about all of that there, at the negotiating table.

Seems to me the leadership of both sides are stalling. Like they're afraid to get together. They should be locked up in a hotel. Once they have had breakfast, lunch and dinner together the atmosphere is bound to get friendly. I wish it would get through to these leaders, all stubborn MEN(!), that they are ruining the lives of millions of people if they don't come to a peaceful agreement. How long do human beings live? Why spend years, decades, fighting?

[Gimel]

16. another excuse

The demands for an end to the building of the wall should be predicated on the cessation of violent attacks on Israelis. That's the only thing that makes sense.

[Darranar]

3. This is bad news...

Any conditions added to peace negotiations will simply delay an eventual solution to the conflict.

[Jack Rabbit]

4. I agree

Talks must take place, regardless of actions taken by the other side, either officially or unoffically. Peace is too important to let acts of war get in the way.

[drdon326]

13. Dont be so down....

hey....i heard there hasnt been a suicide bomber in
8 weeks.

[Jack Rabbit]

14. Let's hope that trend continues

And there also seems to be some talk at official levels as well as unofficial levels.

[bluesoul]

15. The sooner that happens

the better it will be for people on both sides, except for the extremists among both that will lose the support hopefully