Arabs torpedo UN anti-Semitism resolution

[JohnLocke]

Arabs torpedo UN anti-Semitism resolution
By MELISSA RADLER
NEW YORK

A United Nations draft resolution condemning anti-Semitism was nixed yesterday after Arab and Muslim states refused to endorse the text's message.

Ireland had agreed to propose the draft, which was to have been co-sponsored by the European Union, after it refused an Israeli request to include a condemnation of anti-Semitism in the UN's annual resolution on religious tolerance. Tuesday evening, however, the Irish mission to the UN withdrew the resolution amid opposition from some of the Jewish state's staunchest UN foes.

Israel's Deputy Permanent Representative to the UN, Ambassador Arye Mekel, said he was "sad" to learn of Ireland's decision. "Anti-Semitism continues to be a very serious problem and it is time for the international community and for the United Nations to wake up and address it," he said.

Calling on UN member states to reactivate and adopt the resolution, leaders at the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations noted that the resolution was nixed the same week an EU report on anti-Semitism blamed the rise of anti-Jewish attacks in Europe on Arab and Muslim youth. The report, withheld for ten months due to the nature of the findings, was leaked to the press on Monday.-----
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1070433834494&p=1008596981749
----
Or, for those who prefer:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/12/02/international1916EST0710.DTL
----

[drdon326]

1. So ...what else is new??

of course they refuse to endorse it....

between newspapers, tv ,elders of zion miniseries ,attacks on jews,
ethnic cleansing of jews in arab lands, why would they approve it?

[liberalhistorian]

53. And what about the ethnic cleansing of

Arabs/Muslims in Israeli lands?

[Gimel]

2. The UN is the Palist's Wall

the Palestinians use the UN to promote anti-Israel propaganda and contol world opinion. They block, scuttle and torpedo any resolultion that seeks to redress the imbalance. They use the UN as a Wall/fence for world public opinion.

[bluesoul]

4. And Israel

has USA to block any resolution. That doesn't bother YOU of course...

[bemildred]

5. Yup, the Palestinians run the World, they do.

Clever bastards, they are, you'd never know
it from their situation, but they control
everything.

[Gimel]

6. Your sweeping statements

My comment was very specific. If you object to them, show your critique, not a false generalization.

[bemildred]

7. "control world opinion"

You think that's specific?

[The Magistrate]

8. 'Influence' Would Have Been A Better Usage, Sir, Certainly

[bemildred]

9. Indeed Sir.

More to the point, I would suggest that if Israel
has problems with the drift of World opinion, whatever
that might be, that it consider what it might do or have
done to affect it, rather than placing all blame on the
Palestinians. It may well be that the members of the UN
have not been tricked into their positions, but have come
to them by consideration as to their own interests; and
in any case it seems ridiculous to imply that they have
been pressured or tricked into taking them.

[Gimel]

12. Appeal to the UN

Wouldn't help. Recall the latest attempt to have the attacks on Israeli children included in a resolution?

Just look at the posted article's first line:

A United Nations draft resolution condemning anti-Semitism was nixed yesterday after Arab and Muslim states refused to endorse the text's message.


With only one Jewish nation agains 53 Arab states, things there are a bit off balance. That's why Israel needs a wall.

If world opinion (headed by the Arab block) is against it, perhaps they should think of changing their policies of financing terror.

[bemildred]

14. That may all be true, although I can assure you that

world opinion is not headed by the Arab Block, but it
has nothing in particular to do with my post, as I did
not suggest an appeal to the UN.

[Gimel]

17. Do you think your suggestion

Of course there has been talk about this, but of course that is also the discretion of leaders to advance strategy.

[bemildred]

21. I don't understand what you are saying.

Could you clarify?

I have a copy of "Humboldt's Gift", stolen from my
wife. Would you know about it?

[Gimel]

28. Certainly

I was responding to the first half of your post #9.

More to the point, I would suggest that if Israel
has problems with the drift of World opinion, whatever
that might be, that it consider what it might do or have
done to affect it, rather than placing all blame on the
Palestinians.

P.S. Haven't had the pleasure of reading "Humboldt's Gift".

[bemildred]

32. Thank you.

I concede that individual citizens don't have much say
in these things, but it is important to remember these issues
when you vote, and it is important to hold the government's
feet to the fire when they try to deflect criticism for their
failures by placing blame elsewhere, e.g. on the Palestinians
or Indonesia or Syria etc.

The single entity best placed to affect the conflict with the
Palestinians for good or ill is the Government of Israel, although
one may make an argument for the GOUSA, in any case between them
they have the power, and thus they ought to get the lions share of
the blame or credit, as the case may be, for the situation.

[Gimel]

39. Largely disagree

Being able to make changes in policy on one side cannot have the effect one would wish. It has taken the past three years to awaken awareness as to the problem of terrorism in Israel proper. There is trmendous force coming from the Palestinian side as well. It is not at Israel's or The US discretion to change. Changing the structure of the PA was considered and sidelining Arafat has been a focus of the diplomacy since the breakdown of the Camp David talks. Some progress has been made here, but it is very slow. It is not known how much influence Arafat still has, but it is assumed to be considerable.

The Road Map has been challenged and somewhat sidetracked by the Geneva Accords, which may after all, be a better plan. This serves to bog down implementation and the opening of negotiations. Actually, the issue of the wall, has acted as a striking rod, and a non-violent one, it should be noticed, to bring about the direct negotiations. Fortunately, there is now also some structure for that to take place, in the format of the Road Map.

[bemildred]

42. I don't think we are talking about the same thing.

What you are talking about is precisely what I refer to as
rhetoric to deflect blame for the present situation, for example
the obsession with Arafat. You do understand that the outcome of
all that was to increase his political stature? That is, precisely,
the opposite of the efforts' stated intent?

I do completely disagree with your assessment that the GOUSA and GOI are impotent to do more that they are now.

But let's leave it for now. Thanks for the civil discussion.

Edit: spelling

[Gimel]

54. I didn't say impotent

(thanks for the break)

There is more that can be done, but sweeping and immediate changes are unrealistic.

What you call rhetoric, is a viewpoint that rejects the on-the-ground facts. the goal of stopping terror attacks was without a doubt the most vital goal of Sharon's first two years in office. They have largely succeeded, and will continue to succeed despite international opposition.

[bemildred]

56. That is true, you said:

"It is not at Israel's or The US discretion to change."

I did not call for sweeping and immediate changes.

I disagree in almost every particular with your views in the second
paragraph as well, although some of it may be reasonably argued. But
I see little reason why we should argue over it, reality does not
need our defense, and time will tell soon enough what success Mr.
Sharon has had.

Regards.

[The Magistrate]

22. That Is Quite True, Mr. Mildred

There are certainly actions by Israel that offend many, although some of these actions, mostly ones of a military nature, do not much bother me, and in my view ought not to much bother any, unless that bother includes serious condemnation of the fact of war being resorted to on both sides of this dispute, as is often not the case.

A good deal of the condemnation of Israel does not much impress me as being rooted in genuine distaste for wrong-doing. Syria displays the sincerity of its objection to occupation daily in Lebanon; Indonesia displays the sincerity of its objection to brutal suppression of persons seeking their own country daily in Aceh and Irian Jaya; Saudi Arabia displays daily the sincerity of its commitment to liberty in the acts of its religious police. It is very difficult to take seriously condemnations from these governments of anything, even if the thing condemned is wrong.

[bemildred]

27. Thank you Sir.

It is certainly the case that most nations find moral
posturing most useful with regard to addressing the
problems of others, and to avoiding addressing problems of
their own.

(Edit: grammar)

[sushi]

62. Exactly!

:)

[BlackFrancis]

10. it wouldn't have passed muster if said about Israel

That would have been a game of "gotcha" for days.

[bemildred]

11. That was my point. Sir.

[BlackFrancis]

13. thought so

;-)

[The Magistrate]

15. That Is A Common Diversion Here, Mr. Francis

Many are prone to it. A factual reference was made above by Mr. Soul to the influence at the U.N. Israel enjoys by virtue of alliance to the United States, and is unlikely to draw much comment. Israel does not, as a matter of fact, demonstrate much practical capability at influencing world opinion in its favor in this matter. The support Arab Palestine enjoys at the U.N. from the numerous Islamic countries does have some influence on the votes of that body. It is hard to see why the U.N. should not vote to condemn Anti-Semitism, as it is a real and pernicious phenomenom.

[Muddleoftheroad]

16. Perhaps the reason not to condemn anti-Semitism

Is that the UN does NOT condemn it.

[JohnLocke]

52. Hmm.

[sushi]

63. I would like to know

who judges what is anti-semitism and what isn't?

[JohnLocke]

64. Lithos and UGRR.

;)

[bemildred]

18. They would have been better served to vote for

the anti-semitism resolution, and the one to protect
children. The game of tit and tat has become most
tedious.

[BlackFrancis]

23. do what about it exactly?

I don't think one more or less polemic from the UN is going to do much of anything. What sort of policies should the EU begin to implement? Crack down on Muslim immigration? Build up police forces to hound their Islamic communities ostensibly in the name of combating anti-semitism? I can’t picture anything good coming out of this.

The study found the main factor involved in rising attacks was the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and you know that Israel could care less about diaspora Jews situation and from their point of view the worse off for European Jews the better, they might get the immigrants they need to keep their Arab population in line. They certainly aren’t going to mollify their actions to try and bring down tensions.

Maybe I’m missing something but this doesn’t seem to help anyone.

[The Magistrate]

24. What Does It Do About Anything, Mr. Francis?

It makes a pious noise, and the feelings of some are briefly soothed or inflamed in consequence. Much thunder, much lightening: no rain.

[Muddleoftheroad]

26. The Diaspora Jews

Are much a part of Israel and it does indeed care about their well-being. I imagine many would think the whole anti-Semitism thing would just go away if Israel simply surrendered. But then again, 2,000 years of history indicate otherwise.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GabysPoppy]

33. You are so totally wrong

[BlackFrancis]

36. That's how you feel

more power to you, it doesn't make me wrong.

[Gimel]

48. The US diaspora

Has long been considered less interested in actively participating in the Zionist ideal than supporting it through donations. The relatively comforable climate in the US, compared to other nations is well established.

The current report on anti-semitism in Europe observes the situation there in the section on Analysis:

A further aspect that needs to be noted is that the local Jewish population is closely associated with the state of Israel and its politics. It can be said that the native Jews have been made “hostages” of Israeli politics. Here anti-Semitic, anti-Israeli and anti-Zionist motives are mixed together. What is certainly quite new is the particular connection between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism made in the Arab and Muslim world, so that anti-Semitism, due to its connection with a concrete political conflict, varies greatly with its escalation and de-escalation. That anti-Semitic offenders in some cases are drawn from Muslim minorities in Europe – whether they be radical Islamist groups or young males of North African descent –....

I do not recommend harsh legislation, and of course the report is one step in trying to address the situation through cultural institutions such as the schools.

[The Magistrate]

38. That Is A Rather Odd Batch Of Comments, Mr. Francis

Zionism endeavored to create a Jewish state: a state is rather a different concept than a nation, and creating a Jewish state was hardly incompatible with regarding Jews as a nation. That that nation had no land, and existed on sufferance therefore among other peoples, was the problem Zionism sought to rectify.

Support among Jews for Israel is quite high. Certainly the largest proportion of Jews outside Israel resides in the United States, and even among the many Jews here who dislike various Israeli governments, there are vanishingly few who do not support and value the existance of that state. Most of these latter do so only on grounds of extreme piety, rather than political distaste, or indifference. Jews in the United States make a tremendous financial contribution to Israel through the purchase of bonds, and will find even Reform synagogues displayimg unity placards routinely.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Magistrate]

41. Perhaps, Mr. Francis

You might try explaining the basis for your belief the great preponderance of Jews feel little affinity for Israel?

That would seem a more profitable line for you in this matter.

You are certainly free to believe whatever you wish: it is not one of those things, like believing you can fly from the garage roof, where the underlying facts of the matter, if at variance with the opinion, may deal you a nasty thump....

[BlackFrancis]

43. 1995 American Jewish Committee

Found 22 percent of America's Jews calling themselves Zionists, down from 90 percent in 1948. I can't imagine that the situation has done anything but deteriorate from there.

[The Magistrate]

44. Zionism, Sir

Is a particular strain of political feeling, a deep dedication to the establishment of the state, which naturally would be far higher when it was a live issue whether there would be such a state or not. Self-identification as a Zionist hardly defines the body of Jews with a substantial rooting interest in the state of Israel, so to speak.

[Gimel]

34. Was it a factor ?

As there could be no cause and effect relationship established, other than the timing, your comments are rather astonishing. You seem to imply that Israel is somewhat to blame by "caring Less about diaspora Jews situation". When Israel was under seige with daily bombings and other attacks, you claim that attention should have been paid to the diaspora situation.

When Israeli PM speaks about the diaspora situation, he is denounced as exploiting European anti-Muslim sentiment.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=34070&mesg_id=34101&page=

[BlackFrancis]

37. no blame intended

I was rattling off some concrete things to address anti-semetic attacks and observed that Israel had no incentive whatsoever to try and put a better face on for the world for the sake of relations between European Jews and Muslims and actually would be rewarded positively if the situation became worse.

[Gimel]

20. Primarily

because it would be so untrue. To be slander, as statement has to be false.

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

19. speaking of flase generalizations

Again with these stereotypes.

Some will defend such speech as a poor choice of wording. Also known as the jewish benefit of the doubt, or the DU get out of jail free card.

Is it like Chris rock using the "n" word but in a Jewish context?

Somehow promoting stereotypes is less 'distasteful' based upon the religion of the speaker.

silly


B

[Gimel]

25. A phrase used

World opinion is actually not controlled through the UN or hopefully not by propaganda either. I give a little more credit to the majority of the world's public. They may succeed in blocking resolutions what might address some of Israel's problems, but that does not mean there is no backlash in public opinion around the world. Likewise, the US and Israel get plenty of flak about the use of the US veto.

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

31. Is this post you utilizing your 'get out of jail free card'

"the Palestinians use the UN to promote anti-Israel propaganda and contol world opinion."

Ya, I'd back away from that statement as well.

'a phrase used', yup, just a harmless phrase.

B

[Gimel]

45. Where is the stereotype?

Lets look at the documents instead:

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/eed216406b50bf6485256ce10072f637/9f7efa4b5bb343e785256def005bc3c1!OpenDocument

The first paragraph:

Declaring the attempt by Israel to present a draft resolution on the situation of and assistance to Israeli children to the General Assembly's Third Committee (Social, Humanitarian and Cultural) unwise, Nasser Al-Kidwa, Observer for Palestine, said that action constituted an attempt to abuse the title "children" to achieve political goals.

These accusations continue.

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

46. ?

"the Palestinians use the UN to promote anti-Israel propaganda and contol world opinion."

Is your post above an attempt to prove this?

jingoism is a poor vice.

B

[Gimel]

47. the opposite

I don't think they are all that successful, as I have stated.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Magistrate]

50. As A Point Of Curiousity, Mr. Apples

What is the stereotype being promoted here?

It seems to me more a question of exaggerating effect.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sushi]

61. The world

consists of smart and stupid people. The smart ones cannot be controlled by Palestinians or Israel. They read and observe and make up their own minds.

[GabysPoppy]

3. Dog bites man story

[dai]

30. The SF Gate article...

...doesn't mention the UN story.

The JPost doesn't include any comments from the Irish mission, or state what part of the text was problematic. I hate to sound skeptical, but I think there are key parts to the story that are missing.

This article (Shlomo Shamir is Haaretz, right?) paints a very different picture on disagreement between the Irish and the Israelis:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/11/1659994_comment.php

[bemildred]

35. This story was better covered elsewhere, IMHO.

[Classical_Liberal]

55. What do you want to bet this is a lie like their lie about

the UN not careing about Israeli children because it also condemned violence on Palestinian chrildren.

I'll bet the rule had a fuzzy definition of antisemitism, that included criticism of Israel or something like that.

[pistoff democrat]

57. The Situation of and Assistance to Israeli Children

58th Session Draft Resolution Agenda Item 117(b)

The General Assembly,

Recalling the Convention on the Rights of the Child and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights,

Recalling also the World Declaration on the Survival, Protection and Development of Children and Plan of Action for Implementing the World Declaration on the Survival, Protection and Development of Children in the 1990s, adopted by the World Summit for Children, held in New York on 29 and 30 September 1990,

Recalling further the Declaration and Plan of Action adopted by the General Assembly at its twenty-seventh special session,

Concerned that Israeli children suffering from the effects of Palestinian terrorism are deprived of many basic rights under the Convention,

Concerned also about the continuous grave threat to Israeli children from Palestinian terrorism, and about the severe consequences of continuing terrorist attacks by Palestinian terrorist groups such as Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade directed against Israeli civilians, including children,

Expressing its condemnation of all acts of violence and incitement to violence and terrorism, resulting in extensive loss of human life and injuries, including among Israeli children,

Deeply concerned about the severe consequences, including psychological consequences of Palestinian terrorist attacks on the present and future well-being of Israeli children,

1. Stresses the urgent need for Israeli children to live a normal life free from terrorism, destruction and fear;

2. Demands, that the Palestinian Authority respect its obligations to undertake effective operations aimed at confronting all those engaged in terror and the dismantlement of terrorist capabilities and infrastructure, and to guarantee that those responsible for terrorist acts are brought to justice;

3. Requests the Secretary-General to report on compliance with paragraph 2 above within one month and upon receipt of which further actions should be considered, if necessary, within the United Nations System.


THAT'S THE TEXT - FILLED WITH FUZZY DEFINITIONS AND CRITICISMS AND ALL.

[dai]

58. Wrong draft.

This is not the Irish anti-Semitism resolution.

[pistoff democrat]

59. Oh, apologies!

I didn't note the Ireland reference as I'm so used to the "I" here standing for Israel - oops.

Would you be so kind as to provide the I/P (Irish draft) in question?

Many thanks!

[pistoff democrat]

60. ...so I really read the original post ...

"Ireland had agreed to propose the draft, which was to have been co-sponsored by the European Union, after it refused an Israeli request to include a condemnation of anti-Semitism in the UN's annual resolution on religious tolerance."

Now I understand how inappropriate that would be...right fuzzy-headed and all that!