Goldberg: Palestine May Win Vote, But Won’t Be a State

[pelsar]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-18/palestine-may-win-a-vote-but-won-t-be-a-state-jeffrey-goldberg.html

at least somebody understands how it has to be done....

Fayyad has the potential to be the David Ben Gurion of the Palestinians -- a pragmatist, like Israel’s founding prime minister, who builds the structures of a state in advance of statehood, as a means of showing the world that Palestine will be a viable and constructive addition to the community of nations. But Abbas’s UN campaign threatens the entire project.

too bad so many others support abbas and his ego trip....

[geek tragedy]

1. The Palestinians are making a pragmatic move here.

Netanyahu will never allow a Palestinian state--or anything that could lead to one--so long as he is in power. The de facto policy of Israel is Eretz Israel, and there's no point in the Palestinians pretending that negotiating with people who want to annex the entire West Bank can produce a different result than we've seen over the past 60 years.

[pelsar]

4. i understand that history and facts are troublesome for you

negotiating with people who want to annex the entire West Bank

i guess you missed the whole oslo thing.....too young? watching football instead?...or its preferable to ignore that israel actually pullout out of part of the west bank, and gave the Palestinians partial self-rule? That kinda negates your "annex the entire west bank procolmation. Nor has Netanyahu reversed that process...

damn those facts.....now your going to have find some kind pretzel like twist to either back up what you wrote or just ignore it.....

[geek tragedy]

9. Oslo is dead, and one of its killers is the Israeli PM. nt

[pelsar]

10. your response has little to do with the actions on the ground....

i get it though.....once you get 'religion" nothing stands in the way of ones belief.......

[geek tragedy]

12. Actions on the ground, like settlement expansion? nt

[pelsar]

15. so your claiming that soon israel will invade ramalla?

retake jenin? hebron?....

that is the definition annexing the west bank.......

[geek tragedy]

19. They'll keep some Bantustans in place to house

the Palestinians. Kind of like Pine Ridge in the US.

Israelis oppose a Palestinian state, but like to pretend they favor one. So, they say they favor a Palestinian state that can't defend itself, enter into treaties, control its own borders, air space, or ground water.

[azurnoir]

2. if Abbas so 'threatens' Fayyad state building why does Fayyad support the UN bid

and BTW the Palestinians know that a UN vote will not bring statehood however it will bring further legitimacy to their cause, Abbas has said more than once recently that the Palestinians will negotiate after the UN bid it is Israel who seems to be nay saying that, why is it that Israel will only negotiate with a weaken partner is it afraid of more level ground it could appear so

[pelsar]

6. further legitimacy ??

how?...their claim like all claims are political, a "state" just adds another layer of politics/rules/international laws to play with (add some more lawyers to the payrolls).....Fayyad has to also deal with their own internal politics.

If the goal is israeli support, from the ground up, which some may believe is essential for political movement on the israeli side, political games isn't going to do it....but Fayyads method will. Its really that simple. Israeli policy and politicians in the end, do in fact listen to the population when the demand is there.....

[shaayecanaan]

7. I notice that your political party of choice (Meretz) supports the statehood bid...

are you still inclined to support them or have they made a Likudnik of you at last?

[pelsar]

8. i vote more for the actual "persons"

Meretz, especially with amnon rubenstein, got my vote because they were people of integrity who actually did things. I don't expect to be 100% in agreement with any political party/person and i would suspect anyone who is, don't like "knee jerk"reactions, which seems to me what meretz has become-identity politics (what is prevalent in the states).

In these last years, Meretz has lost those personalities, that rare combination of people who actually do stuff while as politicians irreguardless of who is in power.

i remain central left......i just have a problem with random attempts at killing me, family and fellow citizens, it tends to affect my politics, always has

[azurnoir]

17. but it is all about politics/rules/international laws

that is the game so to speak for everyone not just Palestinians that is what negotiations are about for everyone including Israel

now as to Israeli approval whocares, did the Palestinian Jews in 1946 want or need British approval? not really Israeli acquiescence is all that is needed

[pelsar]

20. yes israel got approval and was promptly attacked.....

with its destruction as primary goal.........so much for the rules and intl law......

the Palestinians have it easier, even if they get the official go ahead, israel probably won't attack their new born state.

[classysassy]

3. A Palestinian state

is out of the question as long as the Israelis control our congress and the White House.We continue to abuse the veto,the Israelis can cause all kind of mischief in the middle east realizing the American government will mis use out veto to protect their bad behavior,the children and grandchildren of the Americans will suffer because of our evil deeds.

[holdencaufield]

5. "as long as the Israelis control our congress and the White House"

How, precisely, do they do this? I'm curious.

[henank]

11. It's Uncle ZOG don't you know?

And by the way, my check is late this week.

[azurnoir]

18. Guess you aren't Haredi huh? oh but wait that would be a check from the Israeli government then n/t

[no limit]

21. They do this by having an extremely powerful lobby that promotes fear

they have been able to get the media to paint the palestinian people as terrorists and as a result no politician will be on the side of the Palestinian people. No matter what Israel does, no matter how many war crimes they commit, no politican in this country will ever take a strong stand against them. They control Washington.

If you don't think so by all means explain to me why we never take strong action against Israel when they openly engage in war crimes against Palestinian civilians?

[King_David]

13. 'Israelis control our congress '

All this time I thought it was the Jews,and not exclusively Israeli Jews.

Maybe you meant The World jewish Congress ?

[King_David]

14. `Israelis control our congress and the White House`

Hey classyassy , you forgot Wallstreet and Hollywood .

;)

[Shaktimaan]

16. queston...

We are all opposed to the wasteful old school style of controlling congress via Zionist radio waves beamed from Jupiter, but I was wondering what your thoughts are on the new, low-voltage methods of congressional control such as digital high-frequency cerebral-zapping using cell phone satellites? Or the new Israeli fiber-optic mind-meld company that just went public on NASDAQ? They're doing some really cool stuff, don't you think?