Top Dutch MP slams Turkey's 'belligerence' against Israel

[King_David]

Middle East expert Kortenoeven accuses Turkey of "sliding into an abyss of Islamic extremism," criticizes foreign policies at OSCE meeting.

Talkbacks (2)



BERLIN - ­Wim Kortenoeven, a prominent Dutch MP and Middle East expert, blasted Turkey's government for its jingoistic policies toward Cyprus and Israel on Sunday at a meeting of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) in Dubrovnik, Croatia.

Kortenoeven's sharp criticisms of Turkey's foreign policies and repression of press freedoms elicited an irritated response from Turkey's representative at the OSCE session on security in the Mediterranean area.


According to a transcript and audio tape of Kortenoeven's remarks, he stated: "Turkey, a member state of NATO, is also increasingly belligerent towards the Jewish State of Israel. Threats and baseless accusations are issued against Israel ever more frequently. And provocations are rampant. Israeli freighters are harassed by Turkish warships."

The OSCE is comprised of 56 States from Europe, Central Asia and North America and is designed to prevent global conflicts and function as an early warning system for military confrontations.

Kortenoeven, a member of the Dutch Party for Freedom who has written extensively on the Middle East, continued: "Turkey also objects to Israel's legitimate desire to drill for natural gas in its own exclusive economic zone. Turkish warships are backing up threats against Israel's sovereignty. A simple mistake in this combustible situation might spark a military confrontation. Also troubling and dangerous is Turkey's sympathy for the Hamas terror organization and Turkey's attempts to undermine Israel's legitimate right to supervise the maritime routes to Gaza."

The Dutch MP added that "Turkey is sliding into the abyss of Islamic extremism and authoritarianism. This is visible on the inside and on the outside."

To buttress his contention, Kortenoeven noted that freedom of speech in Turkey is increasingly suppressed and that many journalists have been jailed for speaking out.

"The Turkish cartoonist Bahadir Baruter is to be tried for renouncing Allah in a cartoon. He might get a year in jail for that," he said.


http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=241207

[bemildred]

1. I'm guessing that "demonizing" Turkey will not make them more friendly.

So unless one wants to exacerbate the dispute, this sort of thing is probably the wrong way to go.

[vminfla]

2. Then what would you propose

Hug the belligerence out of Erdogan? An open dialog is the reason that the diplomatic agencies exist.

[bemildred]

5. I'm not proposing anything, I'm suggesting that this sort of tripe is counter-productive.

Unless one wishes to exacerbate the dispute. I thought that is what I said.

[vminfla]

9. what tripe?

What did the Dutch PM say that was untrue? If you were doing something stupid wouldn't you want one of your own friends pointing it out to you before you got yourself in trouble?

[bemildred]

11. Is that some sort of trick question? nt

[vminfla]

13. You are implying that the Dutch PM's statement were tripe

I find his comments to be tripe-free. which one of his comments did you find to merit the tag "tripe"?

[bemildred]

14. Pretty much all of it.

I assume you understand that whether it is tripe or not is a matter of opinion, and that I am just stating my opinion, not trying to establish it as "fact"? You are free to wallow in it and enjoy it as much as you like.

He rants on with his propaganda factoids without bothering to offer much support, why should I be held to some higher standard?

[vminfla]

15. tripe is stating that the Israelis ethnically cleansed arabs like Erdogan had

Wait, actually that is a blood libel. But I do not see how statements like "A simple mistake in this combustible situation might spark a military confrontation. Also troubling and dangerous are Turkey’s sympathy for the Hamas terror organization and Turkey’s attempts to undermine Israel’s legitimate right to supervise the maritime routes to Gaza." are considered "tripe".

[bemildred]

16. Here, I will do one, just to be nice:

The Dutch MP added that "Turkey is sliding into the abyss of Islamic extremism and authoritarianism. This is visible on the inside and on the outside."

Now, I have been hearing that particular meme, about Turkey sliding into "the abyss of Islamic extremism and authoritarianism" for a long time now, well before Turkey decided it did not want to be friends with Bibi, and I think that sort of fabricated attack has something to do with the alienation between Turkey and Israel now. But in any case, whatever is happening to Turkey now looks very little like what the PM claims. They certainly do have their issues, but Iran or Saudi Arabia they are not, and that is not where they are headed either. As a statement, it is pure babble pulled out of his ass, yet being treated as though it were some well-supported prediction about Turkey's future.

[King_David]

3. Chronicling is not demonizing nt

[bemildred]

6. Right, but calling them pejorative names is.

You want to read it again? I can pick them out for you.

I mean, I admit that Turkey is calling Israel names too, for example, so it's "fair"; but unless the object is further polarization, than response in kind is not the way to go.

[Mosby]

7. the turks demonizing Israel isn't exactly helpful either

Nor is the demonization coming from the bds mvmt. But maybe they don't care to be "helpful"

[bemildred]

8. Quite true.

Turkey wants to light a fire under somebodies ass, so they decided to turn up the heat. If you want to help them out, have at it.

The question is "helpful to whom" and "for what purpose"? BDS wants to turn up the heat too. But does Israel? Does it serves Israel's interests NOW to try to look belligerent? Do you want to look reasonable or aggressive and intransigent? Why would that help? How? I don't see it. It may make you feel better, but it's a road to nowhere too. This is a good time for self-criticism, as I understand it.

[azurnoir]

4. about Wim Kortenoeven

Kortenoeven engages in political developments in the Middle East, focusing on the Arab-Israeli conflict. He also writes about Jewish history. On these subjects he gives lectures and guest lectures<1> and contributes to Israël-Aktueel,<2><3> the monthly magazine of the Dutch foundation Christians for Israel (Dutch: 'Christenen voor Israël').<4>

He is a supporter of the State of Israel as well as Judaism and strongly opposes Islam and Arab and other adversaries of Israel, like for instant Iran. He is director of the pro-Israel lobby organisation Netherlands-Israel Public Affairs Committee (NIPAC), the Dutch equivalent of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).

This page was last modified on 16 August 2011 at 16:59.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wim_Kortenoeven

[King_David]

17. 'He is a supporter of the State of Israel as well as Judaism '

That is a SIN ,I tell you.

It is not very 2011 of him to like Jews or support them.

Epic fail on his far leftist/rightist credentials.

[azurnoir]

18. It's the being anti Muslim and anti Arab that is the problem read # 10

it explains further I really can not fathom why you would chose to read it any other way

[King_David]

21. Not credible from some people nt

[azurnoir]

22. what are you going on about? n/t

[oberliner]

19. Instant Iran?

Just add water?

[azurnoir]

20. well I guess albeit for at least one Iranian I can think of it's more like bile

but water will do, course it could be a typo too

[Donald Ian Rankin]

10. This guy is part of Geert Wilder's party.

He's a bog standard anti-Arab, anti-muslim right-wing bigot. He's also the leader of a relatively small party; hardly a "Top MP".

That said, I agree with at least some of what he says - Turkey's policies on freedom of speech and on Cyprus are reprehensible. But he's still just a stopped clock.

[bemildred]

12. He spouts little more than the Israeli gov't line.

There is nothing more amusing than a pro-Israel advocate whining about jingoism in other people.

I quite agree about Turkey, there is plenty to criticize there, but that does not mean you can do whatever you like about Turkey with no consequences.

[LeftishBrit]

23. Well, of course there's lots of hypocrisy going on.

The leader of one much-better-than-most-in-the-region-but-still-flawed democracy, which is engaging in a long-term occupation, getting all righteous with the leader of another much-better-than-most-in-the-region-but-still-flawed democracy, which is engaging in a long-term occupation. Pots and kettles and such things do come to mind.

However, Turkey is still a long way from 'an abyss of Islamic extremism and authoritarianism', as can readily be seen if one compares it with real Muslim theocracies such as Saudi Arabia or Iran. It's rather like some of the more extreme statements made against Israel.

And Kortenoeven is right-wing scum. I don't say this because of his statement here, but because I know he's a member of Wilders' party.