Israel shows restraint

[Herschel]

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/08/13/1060588457057.html

"The Israeli Government has signalled a restrained response to Tuesday's twin suicide bombings in the interests of preserving the relative peace.

Israeli leaders and security officials repeated their insistence that the Palestinian Authority should move to disarm and dismantle the militant groups.

The US condemned the suicide bombings and demanded that the Palestinian Authority "dismantle" militant groups. "Nothing is more important than cracking down on those who would use terror to kill innocent people," Secretary of State Colin Powell told Egypt's Nile Television."

[tinnypriv]

1. This is a welcome move

I suspect there was a big argument in the security establishment about what to do. The fact the Palestinian security forces apparently warned Israel about the attack probably strengthened the hand of the moderates IMO.

[cprise]

2. Gotta get Bush re-elected

So lets continue to demand the PA (itself almost completely dismantled) go after "militant groups".

Powell's comment is priceless, and his role in the Iraq invasion totally eclipses his carping on this issue.

[beanball]

3. Dismantle

the settlements and remove that goon Sharon and there will be peace,until that happens people will continue to die.

[JesseLman]

4. A chicken and an egg walk into a bar...

See now, this is one of the things hindering the entire Middle East peace process.

The Palestinians say "Get rid of the settlements, and clear out of the occupied territories, and the terror will stop".

The Israelis say "Stop the terror, and we'll clear out of the occupied territories, and get rid of the settlements."

Both are right. Kind of.

If Israel unilaterally pulled out, and disbanded the settlements, segments of the Palestinian population would probably stop supporting terror, as it would become 'unnecessary'. At the same time, other segments (those more hard-line loyal to groups like Hamas and Al-Aqsa) would probably just take it as a sign of Israeli weakness, and continue terror attacks to try to get more concessions out of the Israelis in the final negotiations.

If the Palestinians unilaterally stopped terror, overwhelming Israeli public opinion would lead to pullouts from the occupied territories, and many of the settlements would end up being disbanded. But the hard-liners have enough power in Israeli politics to make disbanding the settlements a rather nasty fight. And that's not to mention the oft-psychotic settlers themselves.

Problem is that neither side trusts the other, and neither side has any *reason* to really trust the other.

Someone's gotta take the first step, though. I've always thought it should be the Palestinians, as an Israeli first step would be seen as yielding in the face of terrorism, which no state which wishes to be secure can afford to do.

[Jackie97]

6. Who is the terrorist though?

I would personally say both of them.

One could argue that if suicide bombings stopped, then that would be Palestinians yielding in the face of Israeli terrorism (To them, the occupation leads to several innocents being killed, and IS terrorism).

And no, I don't support any type of terrorism. I'm just making an observation.

[Darranar]

10. Agreed...

but neither terrorism is justified because of the other terrorism.

[Jackie97]

12. I agree with that.

.

[StandWatie]

8. there is nothing to support that theory at all

The entire shameful history of the occupied territory leading up to the first intifada does not support that notion at all. When the Palestinian's quit attacking "public opinion" about Palestinian's falls to pretty much nothing.

[Jackie97]

5. I have to give the PA and the terrorist groups credit on one thing.....

They just don't BS as much as Israel does. They don't show restraint, and they admit to it. Israel claims to be showing restraint, wanting peace, etc, when they want no such thing.

If Isreal had truly wanted peace this time, then they wouldn't have double crossed the Palestinians regarding new Israeli settlements being built in the West Bank, while others were "dismantled". They also wouldn't have been building that wall through the Palestinian "bread basket", preventing a lot of them from making a living. The truth is that Israel and the U.S. were BSing the Palestinians, and they knew it.

It may seem like settlements are not a big deal. What's not being mentioned is that a lot of times, Palestinian homes are destroyed to make these settlements. The idea is to extend Israelis onto the land as much as possible until they can drive homeless and starving Palestinians out.

Maybe Israel should actually attempt to make peace for a change instead of thinking that they can get away with whatever they want to because they have the world's most imperialistic power backing them up.

[Proudlib]

7. Credit?

"They don't show restraint, and they admit to it."

So the fact that Palestinian terrorist organizations, without hestitation, deliberately target Israeli civilians for murder and carry out these murders without any restraint is something that considered a virtue???

More progressive liberalism on the IP board I suppose.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[StandWatie]

11. what you have to realize..

is that Israeli fans seriously believe that Israel is the most moral, good, honest nation on the planet (maybe the only one) and that they never lie and even when they seem to be doing something blatantly evil or nasty that can't be explained away easily there still must be some reason they are doing it and these harsh actions were just forced on them by a world bent on destroying Israel.

Watch the more rabid fans of Cuba for a similar treatment of their "Holy Land".

[durutti]

15. Exactly

That's the one thing I've gathered from the pro-Israel types in the short time I've been posting here. A few things they take for granted:

Tautology bombs: who does Israel attack? Terrorists. How do we know they're terrorists? Because Israel attacks them.

History: the most obviously right-wing, distorted views of history are right, because Israel says so. Anyone saying anything to the contrary is merely a "Palestinian propagandist".

"Palestinian propaganda": Despite the fact that (according to the Center for Responsive Politics) pro-Israel interests have contributed 3,000,000,000,000 (seriously) to campaigns than pro-Palestinian interests since the 1989-90 election cycle, and despite the fact that AIPAC alone spends 71 times as much on lobbying than all pro-Palestinian interests combined, any information that would seem to contradict Israeli claims is attributable to a vast, well-financed network devoted to brainwashing the masses into sympathizing with the Palestinian cause.

Am I missing anything?

[Jackie97]

13. Neither side is being virtuous....

but I do think that the Palestinians (to an extent) are being more honest. They admit that their killing Israelis that the rest of the world (including us) considers to be civilians.

Israel, on the other hand, kills innocent person after innocent person and comes up with an explanation all of the time to either "justify" it or to just flat out get off of the hook. It's always an accident or they're always supposedly a terrorist if Israel gets asked questions. Of course, Isreal as of lately does a bad job of proving that certain people are terrorists. After so many attacks on International Solidarity Movement workers (and major hints that they were being done on purpose in some or all cases), the Israeli Foreign Ministry comes up with the unproven accusation that they supposedly have proof that they're supporting terrorists. So far, nobody is backing them up, and they haven't proved squat. It's been nothing more than a nasty attempt to justify murdering innocent activists. At least the Palestinians don't BS the world like that.

I can't stand a freaking BSer, as Israel is.

It's like after September 11'th, Hussein said that we got what we deserved. That pissed me off, but what pissed me off even more was Arafat's crocodile tears for what happened (Okay, so not all Palestinians are honest. I'm not saying that they are. They just seem to be more honest than the Israeli government lately).

[durutti]

16. Exactly

Both sides are guilty of utilizing terrorism. And it's wrong in both cases.

[durutti]

14. Distinguish between the PA and terrorist groups

The Palestinian Authority and Palestinian terrorist groups are not the same thing.

Fatah is not a terrorist group, nor are the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the Palestinian People's Party, or the Palestine Democratic Union. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and splinters groups from it (except the DFLP) can legitimately be called terrorist. Hamas and Islamic Jihad are terrorist, but are rivals of the PLO and enemies of the PA.

[Gimel]

17. Fatah

You must be honest. Fatah is a terrorist organization, and some of it's off-shoots are worse. Fatah claims responsability for many attacks causing deaths of civilians. It's a known fact.

fatah has close links with Arafat and the PA. Draw your own conclusions, if you're honest.

[durutti]

18. No

Don't just parrot the Sharon line on this one. I'm no fan of Arafat. He's corrupt and incompetent. But he hasn't been involved in terrorism for years.

As an organization, Fatah only targets Israeli soldiers and paramilitary settlers. Rogue elements within Fatah target civilians, and often do it in the name of Fatah. But they aren't doing it with official sanction. This can hardly be avoided, since so many belong to Fatah, and since the Palestinian security forces are so weak, corrupt, and disorganized.

[Gimel]

19. Not a parrot

I am simply going on my own recollection of the avowed claim of responsibility for various murderous attacks. The Alaqsa Myrters Brigade and the Tanzim, are "offshoots of Fatah" that is a more militaristic wings of the same orgainization.

May 19 homicide bombing in Afula (Israel)

The al-Aqsa Brigade of Yasser Arafat's Fatah terror organization and the Islamic Jihad terror organization both released statements on Monday claiming responsibility for the homicide bombing attack in Afula yesterday.

Four Tanzim terrorists were apprehended this afternoon in Bituniya, including two senior Fatah terrorists who were among those who received safe-haven from Yasser Arafat in his Mukata headquarters. They are linked to major terror attacks in the Ramallah area... The security forces arrested nine other terrorists last night in Yesha…
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=44178

There reports are verified in Israeli media boadcasts. (The search engine on this site is the most accurate of Israeli sites, which is why I often use it. )

[newyorican]

20. Arutz Sheva, huh? I always thought that was an extremist rag...

Nice map of "Israel" BTW. Can't place my finger on it, but something seems to be missing. So much for accuracy. :shrug:

[Aidoneus]

21. hey, at least give them credit

they managed to work some variation of "terror" into every sentence of the segment that Gimel quoted, on multiple occasions per line no less! Such shrill and monotonous demonization is a precious talent that no nationalist decievers can do without.

Nice map..