Israeli shells devastate Lebanese farms

[Aidoneus]

Israeli shells devastate Lebanese farms
Tanks, heavy vehicles reinforce positions along border

By Samer Wehbe, Mohammed Zaatari and Khalil Fleihan
Daily Star staff
Thursday, June 10, 2004

NABATIEH, Lebanon: Israel fired more than 10 rockets Wednesday morning around the Lebanese town of Kfar Shuba. The shelling came from the Israeli position at Rweissat Alam, in the occupied Shebaa Farms.

Meanwhile, several Israeli bulldozers were seen reinforcing Israeli military positions at Rweissat Alam, which was hit by Hizbullah fire Tuesday.

A tank-mounted rocket launcher, equipped with infra-red sensors that can pinpoint and destroy vehicles miles away, was also positioned south of the town of Wazzani by the Israelis.

"Yesterday, we went to bed with the sound of shells and it was the same today when we woke up," said shepherd Mahmoud Ghanem, who tends to his herd of goats near the area that was struck by Israeli rockets on Wednesday.

"Israel is shelling us," said farmer Ahmed Markis, whose properties in Kfar Shuba lie within sight of Israeli canons. "But we have no shelters and no safe places for our children."

--snip--

http://dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=5081

[Forkboy]

1. Sharon and the IDF care as much about innocents

as Hamas.

In other words,not at all.

And those of you who stammer,"but they dont target innocents on purpose"...stuff it.Dead is dead is dead,and both sides are a bunch of murderous shitheels.

[Zhade]

2. Our tax dollars at work, my friends.

MODS: This is not I/P, so please do not move this thread to I/P! Thanks in advance.

[Forkboy]

3. Good luck on that

MODS: This is not I/P, so please do not move this thread to I/P! Thanks in advance.

Seems easier to just flush the issue down the memory hole than actually let people talk about it.DU's weakest policy to be sure.

[Zhade]

18. Yep. Typical cowardice in regards to all things Israel.

THIS WASN'T AN I/P STORY!

Fucking ridiculous. Like ignoring Israel will mean the problems it causes, for itself and us as well as others, will go away.

Pathetic.

[Lithos]

22. Let's see

This particular Israeli shelling into Lebanon was in retaliation for Hizbollah shelling into Israel and was one of several volleys between the two parties. The apparent iniating event was an Israeli attack on PFLP-GC (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine) earlier this week.

http://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20archives/2004%20News%20archives/June/9n/Hezbollah,%20Israelis%20Trade%20Fire.htm

And while Hizbollah is nominally a Lebanese Shia militancy, it has dramatically stepped up it's involvement in the I/P conflict not only through active support of such groups as Hamas and the Islamic Jihad by arms smuggling, shared bases, training and supplies, but also directly through the recruitment of Palestinians, roadside attacks, sniper attacks, artillery strikes (such as the one preceding the Israeli operation), and even the occasional suicide bombing (such as Rosh Ha'ayin in 2003.)

This is definitely I/P. In addition, I am rather flabbergasted that this latest round is deemed so significant, yet no comments were raised about the earlier actions of the week by either party.

If you have any further issues, please feel free to comment in the Ask the Administrators Forum. Continued calling out in this forum will be dealt with accordingly.



L-

[Zhade]

23. "Continued calling out in this forum will be dealt with accordingly. "

What, now you're threatening me because of my opinion that hiding posts about Israel's actions here in I/P is pathetic?

Am I not entitled to my own opinion, especially when this is only tangentially connected to the direct I/P issue? Hell, by your own logic, you could move LBN about an American firm selling weapons to Israel here to I/P, because some of those weapons are eventually used against Palestinians.

Where does it end?

As far as "this latest round", I myself didn't comment on it likely because my computer at home's been dead for a week and I can only post during my break at work (like now).

I'm not "calling you out", I'm pointing out the absurd length DU mods (who overall do a wonderful job otherwise) go to in order to sweep news about this region - news which does affect us as taxpaying citizens - into the I/P dustbin.

[papau]

4. there is no occupied Shebaa Farms

Leb agreed to UN border review of the maps

UN said The area is and always was part of Israel

Terrorist attacks by the "farmers" get responded to and folks respond with evil Israel posts - why?

[Aidoneus]

5. "is and always was part of Israel"

?!

[JNelson6563]

6. yeah, no kidding

Are we referring to the bible on this claim or what??

Julie

[muriel_volestrangler]

7. Got a reference for that???

Because apparently Israel says they're part of Syria that Israel has occupied:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/763504.stm

Israel says most of the area lies on the Syrian side of the Lebanon/Syria border and that it will only withdraw from the part marked as Lebanese territory on United Nations maps.
...
Timur Goksel, a spokesman for the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL), told the BBC that the area amounted to little more than 10 square kilometres.

He said no-one disputed that the village of Shebaa itself was in Lebanon, but most of the farms fell into an undefined area that may be either in Lebanon or Syria.

Or does your meaning of 'always' only date back 30 years? So that I am immortal, because I have always been alive?

[Matilda]

8. Historically, it seems that the area belonged to Syria,

but Syria says it has been ceded to Lebanon. The U.N. in fact seems
to agree that it belongs to Syria, but doesn't recognise current
Lebanese claims, and says the issue should be negotiated by Syria
and Israel.

As Israel's claims are based on the fact that they seized the land
in 1967, I would think their claim is rather shaky.

[papau]

9. The Ottoman Mandate maps from WW1 are what is on the table

If Syria feels that they are part of Syria, then let Syria agreed to UN review and border setting.

What we know is that Leb and the UN agree the area is not part of Leb.

We also know the "farmers" in Leb shell the area.

This story is a bit beyond spin.

But I agree that when and if Syria settles on a border, the area may well end up in Syria. Until then you can not give away land you do not have clear title too.

Indeed - letting Leb have a free gov and removing the Syrian veto and its 40000 troops in Leb that inforce that veto would be a nice start.

[Aidoneus]

10. There are 2 ways to look at it

a) it is Lebanese land occupied by Israel; since the latter will not remove their illegitimate presence, armed resistance is legitimate.
b) it is Syrian land occupied by Israel; since the latter will not remove their illegitimate presence, armed resistance is legitimate. This would also apply to the rest of the al-Murtafat al-Jawlan, though the Syrians (foolishly, IMO) think that there is some diplomatic route to be taken here. Meanwhile, the thousands of decendents of those thrown off the land by the Zionist army sit alongside the Palestinians as they wait for their homes to be recovered (well, figuratively speaking:--as in Palestine, a great amount of the original inhabitants' villages have been destroyed and replaced by imported colonists' settlements).

At any rate, it performs as a more important service as a safety valve.

And both Syrian & Lebanese governments consider the land legitimately as part of the latter. Several Lebanese citizens hold land deeds to some of the farms, some of which are now occupied by "Falasha" colonists that the occupyers had imported from Africa.

[papau]

12. The 1918 Breakup of the Ottoman predates the 1926 Establishment of Lebanon

Lebanon was part of post-Ottoman Syria until 1926 and some say Syria never left, with the 1976 Lebanese civil war build up of Syrian troops in Lebanon just another phase - not a new introduction of Syrian Troops into Lebanon.

Indeed when U.S. Ambassador Philip Habib negotiated a cease-fire in Lebanon and the subsequent evacuation of PLO fighters from West Beirut, and a final Israeli-Lebanon accord, Syria "blocked implementation" of that May 17, 1983 accord.

[The Stranger]

17. . . . which predates 1948 -- guess what happened in 1948?

It was Lebanon all along.

[Nihil]

11. Funny, you can spell "Ottoman" but not "Lebanon"

Whilst acknowledging your bias/viewpoint in this matter, can I request
that you refer to Lebanon as "Lebanon" not "Leb"?

I have no doubt that writing about "Pak" instead of Pakistan, "Jap"
instead of Japan (or Japanese) or even "Zion" instead of Israel would
have been alerted on so can you please extend the same courtesy to
other countries?

Thanks.

[papau]

13. Interesting - I do not use JAP - and Leb and Pak and USA are abreviations

that are in the literature.

Do you have a reference that indicates these abreviations are offensive to natives of the area. I have many friends/relatives in the area, and while in conversation - in whatever lanuage - "Lebanon" rather than "Leb" is used, I do not recall anyone ever taking issue with "Leb" in a note I sent them.

If there has been a turn in the lanuage over there that folks are too polite to tell me about I sure would like to know.

Thanks for the heads up!

:-)

[LeftistGorilla]

15. Talk about....

Fishing...

[The Stranger]

16. What we know is that they are not part of Israel.

We already know Israel occupies the Golan Heights. Trying to use the non-sequiter of Syria to justify occupying and shelling Lebanon may work on some boards, but not here.

[papau]

19. If not Lebanon, why does Lebanon allow shelling - it is not their fight

Oh I forgot - Syria runs Lebanon, but is too afraid of Israel to shell the Golan - or the Farms area

So we pretend the hired terrorists are just trying for a just border.

Well as someone said "may work on some boards, but not here."

You do understand that no one on this board has ever posted a nice word about Sharon? - This is not a "Zionist" board in terms of the way "Zionist" is used as a swear by some posters around here. Indeed the division of the Ottoman Empire is not yet complete - so the so and so owns and the other side are thieves screams are rather illogical arguments at this time - by both the greater Israel crowd, and when by the one state that is Muslim dominated crowd. It may take 20 years more before right of return is allowed to pass into history as one the evilest slogans, causing no peace for decades. But I believe/hope their will be a 2 state solution soon.

Meanwhile for some of US DU posters, the constant attempt to make Israeli blood less important that Palestinian blood is a bit disgusting.

[PATRICK]

14. Anniversary of the Six Day War

How many countries have had warning shots fired across their bows recently? I would say the terror alert against Israeli targets is on automatic yellow tomorrow.

[Aidoneus]

20. AH, good..

I was worried that this might not be tossed into the pit! I mean, somebody might actually SEE IT if it was left in Breaking News, where it belongs--it being breaking news and all, and NOT an "I/P" piece..

[Forkboy]

21. I dont blame the mods

I blame the lame ass rule.