Iranian world chance fails to learn a lesson from history

[Violet_Crumble]

ATHENS - (KRT) - Tommie Smith and John Carlos didn't plan at first to protest the treatment of people of color and poor in the United States by punching Mexico City's nighttime sky with black-gloved fists. They were going to stay away from the '68 Summer Games altogether, heeding the call of their political guru, Harry Edwards, to boycott.

That was until they listened to an appeal from Stan Wright, who was also black and the assistant men's track coach for the U.S. Olympic team at the time.

<snip>

Arash Miresmaeili of Iran will not be. Judo's world champion at 146 pounds didn't learn the lesson of Smith and Carlos.

He opted Saturday to protest the plight of his Arab brethren in Israel, the Palestinians, by pulling out of his opening match scheduled Sunday against Ehud Vaks because Vaks is Israeli. Miresmaeili is out of the 2004 Games.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/9402740.htm?1c

[murielm99]

1. Is this a political protest or is it prejudice?

I am not sure he belongs in the same class with Smith and Carlos.

[Proudlib]

2. It's Not A Protest

This was mentioned during the opening ceramonies. Iran does not recognize Israel's right to exist & this athelete refuses to compete against an Israeli, period. The whole "protest" thing is just an excuse to cover up and justify the prejudice, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a sucker for Iranian propaganda. Given the Iranian regimes hostility towards Israel (remember when they preferred to let earthquake victims die rather than be rescued by Israelis?) how anyone can belive the "political protest" shpeil hook, line, and sinker is beyond me.

[Violet_Crumble]

3. What prejudice?

I'm overcoming my fear of being labelled a 'sucker for Iranian propaganda' here and I'm going to ask. Regardless of my views on political protests and boycotts in the Olympics (I'm a firm believer that politics shouldn't be brought into it), the athlete stated that he was refusing to compete against an Israeli because of the I/P conflict. Of course, those of us who like to ponder such things would wonder how much pressure came to bear on the athlete from the Iranian govt. Anyway, does yr claim of prejudice mean you also think that the US boycott of the Moscow Olympics was prejudice rather than a political statement? Or that if the international community does get to the stage where sanctions are imposed on Israel over the separation barrier, that'll be out of prejudice and not because of the I/P conflict? Y'know, if Israel acted like a responsible member of the international community and wasn't intent on denying the Palestinian people their right to self-determination, a claim of prejudice would make some sense. But as it is, I'm thinking that yr making the mistake of believing that anyone who opposes Israels oppression of the Palestinians is prejudiced....

btw, what's the end effect of any other state not recognising Israel? Does Israel automatically vanish in a puff of smoke? Why would Israel give a toss whether Iran recognises it or not? I'd be inclined to think that apart from the value of milking hot and heavy but harmless rhetoric for all it's worth, Israel wouldn't give a shit..

Violet...

[Gimel]

4. Besides providing active support

for terrorism, there is also this:

Iran warns its missiles can hit anywhere in Israel

Threats.

[lefty_mcduff]

8. You've got to be kidding me.

That threat wouldn't have *anything* to do with Israel's threats towards Iran, and the bragging that bombing runs had been rehearsed and were in place should nuclear fuel rods be delivered by the Russians? No, nothing at all.

Cue up chicken-and-the-egg argument.

[Gimel]

9. Aggression

The aggressive propaganda is coming from Iran, and has been for decades. The chicken has already hatched.

[lefty_mcduff]

12. Uh-huh.

Poor, innocent, misunderstood Israel, planning only the most peaceful of bombing runs against civilian infrastructure in another soverign country, while those ruthless bastard Iranians threaten to defend themselves from said bombing, or worse retaliate for it. I mean, really - how dare they.

[Gimel]

13. No truth to that

bombing runs against civilian infrastructure in another soverign country

Propaganda pure and simple.

[lefty_mcduff]

16. Oh, I'm sorry.

Guess I must have misunderstood the develping situation. Apologies for the propaganda.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x759731

[The Magistrate]

17. If, Sir

You are honestly of the belief that the Iranian nuclear program is intended for purely civilian purposes, my advice would be to have a very large "No Soliciting" sign near the door of your residence, and that you never, ever engage in games of chance involving the exchange of cash....

"Whether a weapon is considered offensive or defensive tends to depend on which end is pointed at the speaker."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Violet_Crumble]

11. You just gave examples that are political, not prejudiced...

I asked Proudlib quite a swag of questions there. Maybe you could give them a try? I'd be interested in yr thoughts...

Violet...

[The Magistrate]

15. A Question It Might Be Worth Asking, Ma'am

Is what lies at the root of the Iranian policy of non-recognition that directed this athlete's refusal to compete. Is that policy itself a rational or a bigotted act?

The Islamic government of Iran can make no pretense of having a pricipled commitmemt to self-determination for stateless peoples, as it acts itself to suppress Kurdish independence on Iranian soil, though being willing enough to assist Kurdish insurrectionism on the soil of other countries. Having disregarded openly the will of its own people expressed at the ballot box, maintaining oppressive and torturous jails for it political and social enemies, and engaging in tremendous degrees of coercion upon the most private behaviors of its citizenry, it can scarcely be accused of any principled opposition to disenfranchisement, or brutality, or any degree of deprivatio of freedom imposed on any people. There is not a doubt in my mind you are aware of, and deplore, these things, of course.

Nor, being Persian, can the Iranian government make any claim that its opposition to the existance of Israel is rooted in Arab Nationalism. This nationalism may be misguided in much of its actions in this matter, but nationalism is, for better or worse, at least an organizing political principle that, though its expressions can often take the form of bigotry, cannot really in and of itself be classed as bigotry.

It would seem that the only real ground on which this policy of the Islamic government of Iran could rest is religiousity, and the common conviction among believers in Islam that any ground once ruled by Islam must remain ruled by Islam till the end of days. The existence of Israel is certainly an affront to that conviction, and that conviction can hardly be assigned any higher value than the conviction of a Christian fundamentalist that the establishment of Israel is a sacred and necessary thing dictated by the deity, or for that matter, than the conviction of some Kachist that great swathes of land not now part of Israel ought to be part of it by holy right.

[geek tragedy]

6. Let's take the Iranian regime's words at face value.

http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/judo/news?slug=reu-iranjudoscandal&prov=reuters&type=lgns

<snip>
A statement by the Iranian National Olympic Committee in Tehran suggested the real reason had nothing to do with kilos.

"This is a general policy of our country to refrain from competing against athletes of the Zionist regime and Arash Miresmaeili has observed this policy," it said.
<snip>

They don't recognize Israel's right to exist, and this policy extends to athletic competition. Competing against an Israeli athlete would be a de fact recognition of Israel's existence.

They ought to DQ the entire Iranian judo team. This behavior is a stain on the Olympics.

[Gimel]

5. Israeli won by default

The Iranian was overweight and disqualified.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/464946.html">Haaretz

[number6]

7. bout time more people stood up for Palestinian rights ...

http://www.islamonline.org/English/News/2004-08/14/article07.shtml

"Although I have trained for months and was in good shape I refused to fight my Israeli opponent to sympathize with the suffering of the people of Palestine and I do not feel upset at all," Miresmaili told the IRNA news agency Saturday, August 14

snip

Not only Arabs or Muslims show their solidarity with the tragedy of the Palestinian people though.

A former Greek Olympian, 47-year-old female javelin thrower Sofia Sakorafa, had wished to also to compete under the Palestinian flag.

snip

[Gimel]

10. Disqualified

Perhaps this was a rouse, to detract from his weight problem. He was 2 kilos overweight.

It is against Olympic rules to bring politics into the games. It is a matter that is being discussed by Olympic authorities.

[Matilda]

14. For once, Gimel, I find myself in agreement with you.

Traditionally, wars were stopped during the Olympic Games. I think
in this spirit, this was not the time nor the place for either
party to be making political statements.

For what it's worth, I thought it was rather pathetic.