Israeli Rabbis Urge Army to Get Tough

[Khephra]

Israeli Rabbis Urge Army to Get Tough

Tuesday September 7, 2004 6:46 PM


AP Photo NN105

JERUSALEM (AP) - Prominent Israeli rabbis are urging the defense minister to take a harder line against Palestinian militants, even it means killing innocent civilians, one of the rabbis said Tuesday.

Rabbi Haim Druckman, a former member of parliament, said he and 15 other rabbis sent Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz a letter saying the military should be permitted to attack militants - even those located near Palestinian civilians - if it helps save Israeli lives.

``Should the army fight the enemy, if Palestinian civilians will be killed, or should the army refrain from fighting, and thus endanger our civilians?'' the letter read, according to Druckman.

``The rabbis quote the sage Rabbi Akiva as responding: 'Our lives come first,''' Druckman said, referring to an ancient Torah scholar.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4479189,00.html

[UpsideDownFlag]

1. they're not already tough?

[sui generis]

2. that's pretty funny - that's exactly what "the other side" does.

Except when they blow up innocent civilians, Israelis are properly outraged.

I'm not sure either side can possibly stoop any lower, and by side, I mean the extremist freaks on both sides who are keeping the conflict thriving. It's a shame that the "civilians" are just humans who happen to be in the way of one side or the other.

[number6]

3. elsewhere else in the world ....

Prominent Islamic extremists are urging the jihad militants to take a harder line against the infadels, even it means killing more innocent civilians ....

"you can't win a war on terrorism, you have change to the situation in
other parts of the world" : G.W. Bush (momentarily lost mind and told the truth)

[number6]

7. make that elsewhere in the world .....

;) ... nt

[frylock]

4. interesting that this thread hasn't seen any response..

from the usual suspects on this board who insist on defending Sharon's and the IDF's draconian policies. Could it be that there is no defense for this type of thinking?

The rabbis quote the sage Rabbi Akiva as responding: 'Our lives come first'

One wonders what response there would be if it were Arafat issuing that statement.

[IA_Seth]

5. yeah, don't wonder too hard!

This sort of post hardly ever gets comments from the "others", and yes, I believe it is because every now and then an article like this one comes up and shows WHY the Palestinians fight back.

"our lives come first" - He should be ashamed of himself. Israeli lives will always be threatened if this sort of thing is coming from a Rabbi whose people are suppose to look to for advice and wisdom.

[XanaX]

8. Let me get this straight

You people are all in favor of Israel defending itself---so long as it does so from a perspective that its lives are LESS important than its adversaries?

Now I understand why you think eliminating terrorist leaders is equivalent to targeting kids on buses. Thank you.

[frylock]

9. i guess it would be too much to ask that ALL lives are considered of..

equal importance, particularly in the eyes of a (alleged) holy man such as Rabbi Haim Druckman. And thank you.

[Stockholm]

10. Let me get this straight...

Now I understand why you think palestinian civilians are worth less than Israelis.

[Nadav]

11. He didn't say that at all

Projection and mind reading seem to go hand in hand

[Violet_Crumble]

12. Then what did he say?

I saw projection and mind reading, a heavy implication that civilians aren't targetted by the IDF, and little else...

Violet...

[Nadav]

13. Ask him yourself

"Now I understand why you think palestinian civilians are worth less than Israelis."

No where did he say or imply what he was accused of saying. Or are you also accusing him of that line of thought? If you are doing just that, nothing in the world will ever change the reality you have decided is fact.

[Violet_Crumble]

14. I wasn't talking about him...

You were the one who claimed that the poster before him wasn't saying something. I thought I'd been clear in my post, but obviously not clear enough...

So, tell me. Where did the poster you were claiming 'hadn't said that at all' manage to read: 'You people are all in favor of Israel defending itself---so long as it does so from a perspective that its lives are LESS important than its adversaries?' into the posts in this thread? Or is projecting and mind reading okay in that instance?

Violet...

[Nadav]

15. Then I guess you believe this statement also

"eliminating terrorist leaders is equivalent to targeting kids on buses."

I don't know why you are having problems following and frankly I'm not interested.

[Violet_Crumble]

16. You guessed wrong, then...

And I've honestly got no idea why you'd have tried such a strange guessing game. Sorry, but I haven't had any problems following. The article was about Palestinian civilians. The poster you claimed you knew what he wasn't saying tried to equate Palestinian civilians with terrorists. Here's what may be a newsflash. The targetting of any civilians is wrong. Whether they're Israeli or Palestinian is irrelevant. And if you want to try to claim that the IDF doesn't target Palestinian civilians, then yr heading towards one hell of a big shock, methinks...

Violet...

[IA_Seth]

18. And THAT is the issue....

You have summed up the issue precisely, although you probably didn't mean to...

Why should EITHER side look to the problem thinking one side's lives are worth more/less than their own?

It isn't that anyone here thinks Palestinian lives are worth more, its that we all think their lives are EQUAL to those lives the "rabbi" is trying to defend with hatred and violence.

[The Magistrate]

19. Indeed, Sir

All nations, cultures, societies, and families, indeed, all discernable human entities, including the lone individual, operate on the assumption their own lives are more important than the lives of others. It is the natural default position, so to speak, and really ought not to excite much notice when it is plainly expressed by anyone. It is certainly this that fuels all conflicts between humans, but it is just as certainly not going to cease being a fundamental element of the human condition. It would take a saint to act otherwise, and if that were common, it would hardly be so revered a state.

[XanaX]

20. Thanks, Magistrate

For putting it so eloquently.

[Djinn]

6. VIOLENT FUNDIE NUTBAG

atleast the suicide bombers have the courage of their convictions (NB - NOT saying it's courageous just that if you beleive killing is OK you shouldn't hide behind other people to do it) to do it themselves. How on earth is this any different to Osama?? If God actually existed I'm sure he would have rounded up all the religious fascists by now and sent them to their own little hell.

[tinnypriv]

17. No difference

Than what National Union recently demanded.

That wasn't even reported outside of Israel.

[Rhiannon12866]

21. Wonderful. Another call for peace in this region.

This is just what we do not need, and you'd think that these men of religion would be the first to recognize this. But then, God told George Bush* to attack Iraq, so I guess that anything goes, these days, in the name of religion. This is both sad and scary;(

And I am totally amazed that Khephra also posted in I/P, but nothing should surprise me about his grasp of world affairs. Kick for Khephra!:kick: