Israel's unexpected victory over terrorism

[drdon326]

Israel's triumph over the Palestinian attempt to unravel its society is the result of a systematic assault on terrorism that emerged only fitfully over the past four years. The fence, initially opposed by the army and the government, has thwarted terrorist infiltration in those areas where it has been completed. Border towns like Hadera and Afula, which had experienced some of the worst attacks, have been terror-free since the fence was completed in their areas. Targeted assassinations and constant military forays into Palestinian neighborhoods have decimated the terrorists' leadership, and roadblocks have intercepted hundreds of bombs, some concealed in ambulances, children's backpacks, and, most recently, a baby carriage.

At every phase of Israel's counteroffensive, skeptics have worried that attempts to suppress terrorism would only encourage more of it. They warned that Israel couldn't close Orient House, the Palestinian Liberation Organization's de facto capital in East Jerusalem, without provoking an international backlash and strengthening Yasir Arafat's hold there. They warned that, by isolating and humiliating Arafat, Israel would only bolster his stature at home and abroad. They warned that, by reoccupying Palestinian cities and targeting terrorist leaders, Israel would only deepen Palestinian rage and despair.

In fact, Israel shut down Orient House in August 2001 with relative impunity, and today, few even recall where it was. Not only has Arafat been confined to the ruins of his Ramallah headquarters for the last two years, but he has become a near-pariah figure even among many European foreign ministers and the target of a revolt in the territories against his corrupt rule. In late August, German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer visited Jerusalem, but not Arafat's headquarters in Ramallah. And, for all their rage at Israeli assassinations and despair over the reoccupation, growing numbers of Palestinians are now questioning the effectiveness of their terrorist war. Last year, in Gaza's Beit Hanoun, residents protested against terrorists using the village as a base for launching rockets into Israel; just recently, a Palestinian teenager was shot dead there after he tried to bar terrorists from his home.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0904/halevi_israeli_victory.php3?printer_friendly

................................................................

hmmmm.....

[el_gato]

1. complete drivel, how many palestinian homes have been bulldozed today?

The IDF is a terrorist organization.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Djinn]

31. before you jump in kung fu jew

and I'll be polite because you're new - try finding out WHY people have discounted this source - this is a board for DEMOCRAT's - when sources are used that have contributions from Daniel Pipes, Ann Coulter and someone esposuing why a vote for BUsh is the best vote we get somewhat suspiscious of them.

Just as if someone posts something here from a National Action type group the vast majority here would give it NO time because certain people's biases are TOO offensive to overcome.

Also you're gonna get a lot of people taking issue with you sig quote, many of us are sick to death of being labelled "anti-jew" especially those of us who ARE jewish (albeit from a family that's been atheist for a few generations now) and it's PATICULARLY annoying when someone seems to beleive that because THEY are Jewish that they have a more valid opinion here or that their view is that of ALL jews - sorry sunshine, it aint

[bemildred]

2. Some fascinating paragraphs at the end Doctor:

For all its hard-won achievements, Israel's victory is hardly
guaranteed. A key component of winning the war on terrorism is
convincing the Palestinians that terrorism doesn't pay. That
goal will fail if the Israeli Supreme Court, overriding the army's
objections, succeeds in placing the security fence along the pre-1967
border. Given that the future border may well be determined by the
fence, such an outcome would grant the Palestinians territorial gains
through terrorism beyond what they were offered at the negotiating
table - and without even recognizing Israel's existence in return.

Israel could also lose if Byzantine domestic politics prevent the
emergence of a national unity government capable of implementing
decisions, such as unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, that are backed
by the Israeli majority. Failure to withdraw from Gaza could provoke
widespread refusal to serve in the army and strain Sharon's hard-won
rapport with Bush. Conversely, failure to demonstrate that the
withdrawal is supported by a majority of Israelis could encourage
settlers to resist violently. Sharon, after all, lost a Likud Party
referendum on withdrawal. To neutralize his right-wing opponents, he
needs to hold a national referendum or new elections to establish
beyond doubt that he has a solid mandate to withdraw. Otherwise, the
war that began with Palestinians shooting at Israelis could end with
Israelis shooting at Israelis.

Long time, no see. :hi:

[Darranar]

3. How is it a "territorial concession" to avoid seizing land?

Since the Green Line is currently Israel's border, that is where the Wall should be. Putting it in the Occupied Territories isn't avoiding "territorial concessions", it's seizing land, especially if "the future border may well be determined by the fence", as the author claims.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

14. BUSTED!!!!!!!! (nt)

[number6]

5. complete drivel

eos

[Comadreja]

6. Teaches them that Israeli Terror works?

The wall hasn't eliminated terror on the Palestinian side, since the Israelis are still on their land brutalizing the
inhabitants, "guilty" or innocent. To imprison a whole population for the crimes of a few is a gross violation of human rights. If suicide bombers are no longer able to attack Israel, why is the IOF still carrying out its murders and demolitions?

Of course, there is an alternative to terrorism. It's called justice... Arundhati Roy

[forgethell]

17. But this isn't 'crime'

it's war, and the rules are different.

[Violet_Crumble]

22. That'd apply to all parties, not just one...

Using yr belief that it's not illegal to commit grave violations of human rights in a war, that'd have to apply to all sides. Don't see you doing that. The reality is that war doesn't give any party an excuse to commit human rights violations. Civilians are not open season for anyone, a lesson everyone should have learnt after WWII where it was safer to be a troop than to be a civilian...

Violet...

[forgethell]

23. Don't put words in my mouth, VC

I do not consider destruction of property to be as grave a "violation of human rights" as murder.

However, taking your argument at face value. Do you not feel that the Palestinian side has taken more than full advantage of the 'war' situation to engage in wholesale violation of human rights? AKA "murder of innocent civilians". Because if not, your arguments are not even worth paying attention to.

[kung fu jew]

28. IDF ops

True enough, Palestinian suicide bombers are having a hell of a time getting into Israel since the completion of the fence (there has been a barrier around Gaza for years and there has not been a single suicide bomber originating in Gaza since). As a result, the terrorist organizations in Gaza have shifted to lobbing Quassam rockets into civilian population centers. How launching an explosive rocket at toddlers playing outside their houses (two of the casualties of the last attacks) is not a "gross violation of human rights" is simply beyond my comprehension.
And as to whoever was ranting about "Jews should support Bush," it's entirely possible for one to be a progressive and a zionist. For all of you out there who seem to have lost the actual definition of Zionist, let me give it to you quickly and concisely: Zionist = someone who believes in the need for a Jewish state and in the continuing existence of the Jewish state. No smokey back-room cabals, no plotting the manipulation of the world bank, and certainly no shadow government control over United States foreign policy. Just the continuing safetly of Israel and its people, through peaceful means whenever possible.
I have not always supported Israel, my first experience with the Israel/Arab conflict was a picture in National Geographic of a masked Palestinian waving the Palestinian flag, and I remember being ashamed to read that that flag was a symbol of a people's suffering. But I looked beyond the often emotionally charged and misleading images. Fact and history support Israel and the trials of fire Israel has underone simply to avoid the genocide of its people.


"You declare that you do not hate Jews, you are merely anti-Zionist. And I say, let the truth ring forth from high on the mountaintops... When  people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews... What is anti-Zionism? It is the denial of the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the globe.''
Martin Luther King

[Forkboy]

7. I'd need a gallon of Stoleys to take this seriously

[tinnypriv]

n/m

[tinnypriv]

8. Yeah yeah

Is this like the "We've Won" statement of Ya'alon, that had to be retracted about 6 months later, with much sheepiness?

[Jim Sagle]

9. Ariel's da man, doin' the best he can...to make the world a better place.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

11. Some people's progressiveness goes out the window

when it comes to Israel.Often when the topic comes up they are indistinguishable from the most hardened conservative.

I do think Jim is just trying to push buttons though,not realizing how foolish and shallow it makes him come across.

[Djinn]

12. hope so

there are certain posters here (and a few unlamented tombstoned ones) who it would not surprise me in the slightest to find they support not only Sharon but Bush as well - particularly when they post from sources that post articles like "why jews should vote for bush" but Jim (unlike a few others here) posts outside of the IP all the time and does indeed come across as a progressive type...how could ANY progressive support Sharon, it's inconceivable??

BTW - Nice to see you around again Forkboy - were you gone for a while or did I just miss you?

[Forkboy]

13. I was gone for a couple of months

Figured I'd give everyone a break from my relentless cynicism and terror supporting ways :D

[number6]

26. hey , I missed your ...

relentless cynicism and terror supporting ways ;):hi:

[kung fu jew]

30. Who can say what is progressive and what is not?

Progressive: A democracy in which the Arab minority has voting rights and representation, women have equal rights to men, and homosexuals are treated as the human beings they are.

Not progressive: A DE-facto dictatorship over an impoverished land rife with religious fundamentalism; where homosexuals are publicly ostracized and executed, and women who are raped are shamed into committing war crimes by blowing themselves up on busses. (except for the whole women blowing themselves up and homosexuals being executed, sounds kinda like the bush administration...)

[Djinn]

32. and this "source"

WANTS Busgh re-elected, I think we can happily say that's NOT progressive. Sorry kung fu but you've jumped in without reading the article or noting the dubious source.

BTW There is not one simple definition to "Zionist" it means different things for different people, but if you're happy with YOUR definition then I'm still an anti-zionist - if post war zionists (or even the relative handful pre war) had picked a place that truly WAS "a land without people" then no-one would have cared, they didn't.

If Israel didn't exist then the jewish religion would live on as it does happily across Europe, the US, Australia etc etc my family will not stop existing if Israel does, not that that is even suggested by most in the debate but spawning a new group of persecuted and disposessed people doesn't help anyone.

[Djinn]

15. so pointing out

that Sharon is a right wing criminal and that a self proclaimed progressive to support him is odd at the least is against the rules?

[number6]

25. Ariel's duh .... man

;):hi:

[geek tragedy]

16. Repuke/Likudnik propaganda.

Blech.

[Djinn]

18. see don

it's not just us "anti-semites" or "self hating jews" that find your sources questionable to say the least

[geek tragedy]

19. This one is easy.

They run ANN COULTER columns.

[Forkboy]

20. When has he posted anything but?

[Djinn]

21. I don't mind JPost ones

I'm not a fan but there's a wide gulf between them and this bunch of unashamedly right wing racists - as geek tragedy says (and we don't agree on a lot) they post Ann bloody Coulter.

I dunno if the JPost would post ENDLESS articles about how Islam is an inherently violent religion ("Why not say it bluntly? Islam is an aggressive, violent political ideology" funny I thought it was a religion) does the JPost always put quotes around Palestinian as if the notion that such a group of people is ludicrous.

the jewishworldreview, in, the words of another poster "aint nuthin but shit"

[Fatima]

24. This sounds like the crap spewed on Arutz Sheva radio

[number6]

27. "Israel's unexpected victory over terrorism"

color me skeptical :evilgrin:

and GWB (*) is a good President and will rid the world of evil,..
...ha ha ha

[Djinn]

33. other choice pieces from jewishworldreview

Why Jews Should Support Bush
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0904/charen_Jews_4_bush.php3

Moderate Peaceful Muslims? - where is the evidence?
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0904/thomas090904.php3

What Orthodox Jews will be doing for Bush — and, more importantly, why it matters
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0904/bush_frum.php3

Why not say it bluntly? Islam is an aggressive, violent political ideology
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/

This site supports religious and ethnic bigotry, it supports George W Bush it is not under anyone's definition a progressive site.