Israel´s stealthy killers employ mixture of speed, skill and silence

[Herschel]

http://www.jta.org/page_view_story.asp?intarticleid=13118&intcategoryid=1

"Abdullah Kawasme probably never thought that diaper deliverymen could be so lethal.
But when the Hamas mastermind stepped out of a Hebron mosque in June and came face to face with a group of men transporting diapers, he had no way of knowing that they were undercover Israeli agents, members of Israel´s crack SWAT team known as the Special Police Unit and known by its Hebrew acronym, Yamam.

According to witnesses, the men, who looked like Palestinian laborers, had been lounging around a van packed with diapers outside Kawasme´s mosque in Hebron.

When Kawasme, who was responsible for terrorist bombings that had killed 52 people in Israel, emerged amid a crowd of worshippers, the Yamam squad pulled out pistols and ordered him to stop.

Kawasme was shot in the leg but still tried to flee, so the gunmen shot to kill. After the hit, the assassins melted away into the night before dumbfounded onlookers realized what had happened.

Yamam has carried out more than 600 counterterrorist operations alongside Israel´s regular military forces during the intifada."

Fascinating. I applaud these liquidations.

[Maple]

1. Anyone

who applauds 'liquidations' of any kind has serious mental problems.

[Parche]

2. The same either side

When will BOTH sides realize this cannot continue, it is just plain
MURDER on either side, whether you are in Israel or what is known as
Palestine, and it should not be condoned on either side.

We need a New Country for the Palestinian people, when the UN formed
Israel in 1948 they did screw up the balance, they should have
made sure there was an Israel and a Palestine, that is the only way
and make sure the illegal Israel settlements are gone, and make
sure the Palestinians realize that these suicide bombers are not
helping their situation.

[Wwagsthedog]

3. You need to...

... get in touch with judge moore and study about "thou shalt not kill". Extemists are sick no matter which side of the fence they might lurk on.
:puke:

[Parche]

6. That is what I said in my post

Murder is murder no matter which side you are on And should never be condoned

[chesley]

10. How do you stop it

if one side refuses?

[damnraddem]

15. The one side that refuses is made up of ...

the terrorists on both sides. Sharon has been the best friend of Hamas and Hezbollah, assuring them success in their undertakings -- and they, of course, have reciprocated by driving Israelis to accept Sharon in terror for their lives. Peace cannot come until responsible authorities on both sides state that negotiations WILL CONTINUE, that deals will be signed, and that a settlement will be reached, no matter what the terrorists on either side do.

[bemildred]

4. Well, it is an interesting juxtaposition:

Fascinating. I applaud these liquidations.

Take my hand, not my life.


BTW this is SWAT movie PR crap to convince the rubes that
something is being done to make them safe.

[StandWatie]

9. extrajudicial murder is fascinating

entirely free of political motivations, always done carefully (though regretably often results in "collateral damage") but Hezbollah firing anti-aircraft weapons at Israeli fighters over Lebanese airspace is a terrorist activity.

Quite the system going on over there in the Levantine :shrug:

[Cassandra]

24. But you can see why...

the CIA admire them. It's that Bond thing. I think they admire the Israelis' ability to get the job done, as well as their permission both to do the job and to brag about it afterwards.
I find the whole thing rather creepy, but if the PA is unwilling (or now probably unable) to arrest and detain terrorists, better they are assasinated individually than attacked wiith enough fire power to kill or injure many. I would prefer they be arrested by someone, but then the Palestinians have no right to insist on their release in exchange for anything.

[bemildred]

28. During the occupation of Northern China

by the Japanese before and during WWII, the population was
reduced from around 44 million to around 21 million. (Magistrate
may correct me if I have the numbers off.) At the end they
were still resisting. This sort of thing accomplishes nothing
except to add a few more deaths to the toll on one side or
another. Of course, if all you want is revenge, or the appearance
of revenge, then you can get your emotional catharsis this way,
and the "warriors" get to play the big shot. But there is no
safety to be found in it. You will never be able to kill enough,
and they will never stop fighting back. Militarily it is chump
change.

Chechnya has been depopulated. Russians are still dying there in
hands-full.

The Kurds are still fighting the Turks for a homeland.

There is no future and little advantage in this stuff, and
governments are ill served by confusing movie illusions with
what works and does no work in the real World.

Don't get me started on the CIA.

[The Magistrate]

27. Viewed Coldly, Sir

It is somewhat preferable as a method to guided missile bombardment, which generally harms a number of others besides the intended target. It is also a lot more difficult to execute, requiring better intelligence and a longer lead time.

[bemildred]

29. There is nothing wrong with precision in these things

as I have said before.

Regards.

Edit: to be clear, her point is well taken in that regard.

[StandWatie]

41. assuming there is real intelligence

In the early days of Israel's "counter-terrorism" there was no effort to even try and find perpetrators, just unit 101 exacting "retaliatory" strikes on Arab villiages picked essentially at random.

Maybe I'm just too cynical but I doubt these "targeted killings" are anything more but dressed up and sanitized versions of the old method of "counter-terrorism".

[The Magistrate]

46. That Is Largely True, Mr. Watie

Though it is also true the techniques you reference were employed prior t.o the Suez War of '56, and are thus nearly four decades in the past. The counterpart today would be something along the lines of massacring villagers near a shooting on the highway, or an indiscrimant bombardment of a neighborhood containung a bomb factory. Such things, you likely will admit, do not occur today.

[StandWatie]

47. probably right..

I still think these "targeted killings" are one part for domestic consumption revenge sort of things, one part political decapitation and one part perhaps "counter-terrorism".

[The Magistrate]

48. Not An Unreasonable Assesment, Sir

Sustaining domestic moral, certainly, is a legitimate object for a state at war, as is destruction of enemy combatant personnel. Political decapitation is generally foolish, in my view: without political organs, after all, there is no one to surrender. The current Iraqi morass is an apt illustration of the dead-end decapitation generally leads to.

[methinks2]

5. I believe it was

Ghandi who said an eye for eye will simply make you blind.

[dfong63]

7. will you applaud when Sharon or a cabinet member is assassinated?

[Cassandra]

26. Wasn't a cabinet member assassinated...

a year or two ago? The minister of transport or travel? I remember being surprised that he had been targeted until I read some of his comments about Palestinians. I wasn't applauding but it did seem like he'd gone out of his way to make himself a target.

[Trajan]

8. My god .....

What sickening pride ....

The term 'liquidation' is of the language of genocide .... an unpleasant word used by others in another land in another time ....

Only the 'rarest' individuals would applaud such revolting lethality ... There is NOTHING about liquidation that should engender anything but disgust ....

[rini]

11. My

sympathy goes to Israel who has been forced to become like its aggrssive cousins.

[StandWatie]

13. yeah, those barbarians..

They've managed to kill a few hundred people a year with human bombs since Oslo fell apart and Israel has only completely destroyed a nation and decimated (in the literal old Roman use of the term) another.

Poor, picked on, Israel.

[Herschel]

17. Please my friend

Israel has not become as her neighbors. She does not target innocents.

[Violet_Crumble]

25. Palestinian children aren't innocent?

What do you call them then? Terrorists?


Violet...

[QuietStorm]

32. it was brought to my attention

in trajan's thread just after the Jerusalem bombing. The Palestinians are SO CALLED children. That, I believe, is the common terminology for some. As in there are no innocent palestinian children. That seems to be the implication. The occupation seems to have little baring on the assessment. Just a minor inconvenience is all.

[madrchsod]

12. liquidate for peace

your neighbor is different from you -liquidate them
your neighbor believes differently from you-liquidate them
your neighbor has land you want- liquidate them
liquidate for peace... wow! for a minute a thought i was at stormfront, same ideas different players.
liquidate- doesn`t sound so nice when people are being "liquidated"

[Jim Sagle]

31. your neighbor liquidates your kids - liquidate them

[damnraddem]

14. You applaud terror squads.

Then you're no better than those who applaud the suicide bombers.

Death squads are no one's friends other than those on the other side. Before they killed Kawasme, they aided and abetted him by killing others, thus creating more suicide bombers. By killing Kawasme, they aided and abetted other bombing masterminds. And, of course, by masterminding suicide bombings, Kawasme aided and abetted the terror squads.

The terrorists on both sides are the cancer eating away at the Middle East. But I am more disgusted by the Israeli terror squads, by the terrorist government of Israel, and by chief-terrorist Sharon, because they claim governmental legitimacy in doing their dirty work.

[Herschel]

16. All of you listen

These are not murders or terrorists squads. They bring justice on those that kill. You know the difference. It is a good thing. I will leave it at that.

[Forkboy]

18. yeeeehaw

:crazy:

[newyorican]

22. Sounds like...

the wild fucking west. Yippie-Ki-Yea!

[Herschel]

43. You three listen

These men bring justice on killers. Homicide bombers seek only to kill innocents. You know the difference.

[StandWatie]

45. you don't know what you are talking about

No one in the Gaza Strip has left in years much less had the chance to be "killers" but Israel rains missles down on one of the most densely populated areas on the planet. You don't know what you are cheering on so I have an amount of pity but don't pretend that your moralistic pronouncements have anything to do with the real world.

[Forkboy]

49. listen to you?

I'll pass on the bloodthirstiness thanks :eyes:

[dfong63]

19. what kind of warped "justice" is it

These are not murders or terrorists squads. They bring justice on those that kill. You know the difference. It is a good thing.

what kind of warped "justice" is this, that also takes innocent lives, and that omits the indictment, the trial, the presumption of innocence, the evidence, the jury, the sentencing; and goes straight to the execution? where are the checks and balances, where is the accountability?

it's only a "good thing" until the other side does the same thing to you. then it's terrorism. well, i say bullsh*t. it's terrorism when either side does it. and it's high time the US stopped subsidizing this egregious violator of human rights and international law.

[rini]

20. The

only kind these killers understand.

[dfong63]

23. you mean the killers in these israeli death squads?

[QuietStorm]

33. this has been going on. they just decided to make it public

I guess it sound responsible and official like. There was a strident assassination campaign in place (aside from the missile attacks to get an alleged terrorist that demolished a whole building in the process, wounding 12 and killing three give or take). Targeted hits were already going on all along. When they target with percision they don't only kill the leader, they kill his wife and his children too. This really is not new. I guess they feel they can bring it out into the open now. Prior to this announcement I do not believe their assassination campaign was ever broadcast outwardly. But I have run across comments wherein Hamas has asked more than once for Israel to stop it's assassination campaign of Hamas leaders.

This is nothing new.

[QuietStorm]

34. Pre-emptive assassination - (UK US ISRAEL)

Pre-emptive assassination - the new U.S. policy (June 29, 2003)

snip

Labeling the pre-emptive assassination strike a "troubling" blow to peace, Bush later bowed to pressure from pro-Israel lobbying groups and Congress members; White House opinion now firmly backs the Sharon government's crackdown on militant groups, covert lethal operations and all.


snip

No wonder. Eager to follow Sharon's lead in pre-emptively bumping off enemies, the Bush administration is said to be working with Israeli government officials to establish the legal framework for creating America's own targeted-assassination policy. The Israeli justification (that ongoing conflict in the West Bank and Gaza Strip necessitates substituting warfare laws for self-defense) sits well with a US president hoping to fight a never-ending "war on terror."

Coincidence? The Israeli attorney-general's office calls "legal and legitimate" the systematic elimination of almost 100 Palestinian militants (not to mention innocent bystanders) since the intifada broke out in late 2000. The US State Department similarly defined its own hit job on an Al-Aqaeda operative in Yemen last November as "legal and necessary."

more...

http://www.oneworld.net/article/view/62573/1/

FROM LEBANON WIRE (MAY 23, 2003)

SNIP

BEIRUT: The recent spasm of suicide bombings in Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Israel and Chechnya, and the prospect of more to come, possibly even another spectacular equivalent to ­ or worse than ­ Sept. 11 is expected to result in an intensification of US and Israeli pre-emptive strikes against extremist organizations.

http://www.lebanonwire.com/0305/03052323DS.asp

snip

Assassination and the license to kill
By Richard M Bennett

The world of counter-terrorism is certain to take a further step into the downward spiral of hit-teams and assassination as Western intelligence services try to find the means to defeat al-Qaeda and its myriad extremist offshoots. The US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and Britain's MI6 (the secret service branch dealing with matters outside the British Islands), freed of many of the political and legal shackles imposed in the latter years of the Cold War, are expanding their covert capability and the means to use "executive action", a euphemism for assassination, to defeat the greatest threat to democracy since the collapse of communism.

The main source of the experience and influence on operational tactics is perhaps one of the more surprising aspects of these developments.

snip

Israel has played a significant and largely secret role within the dark world of Britain's covert operations against terrorist groups. As long ago as the early 1970s Rafael Eitan, the then head of the Israeli hit-squad known as the "Kidon" toured Northern Ireland and later the Special Air Services (SAS) base in Hereford, England. Rumor has it that Eitan was less than impressed with British training, tactics or their "kill" rate. Within months of his visit there began a number of fundamental changes in security policy and operations in the county.

snip

Britain's tough new approach owes much to Israel

Under Prime Minister Tony Blair, Britain's official approach is far more cooperative and Mossad have apparently met with little opposition to their clandestine center operating in London with some 15 intelligence officers and two or three members of the Kidon. The Israelis are thought to have a hit list of around 50 Islamic and Palestinian terrorists believed to be currently living in Britain.

snip

According to Gordon Thomas, one of the world's leading experts on Israeli and British intelligence in particular, the highly effective Kidon is directly controlled by Mossad. It has some 38-40 highly trained assassins and includes at least four women. They operate throughout the world and wherever a potential or actual threat exists to the interests of Israel or its people. David Kimche, a 30-year veteran of Mossad and its deputy until his resignation in 1980, was largely responsible for the formulation of the Kidon philosophy that it must be "Israel first, last and always".

snip

Dagan led a commando unit called 'Rimon' which was known, how shall I put it, for its unconventional methods." Dagan is known to be keen to promote the Israeli way of dealing with terrorism, and quickly paid an official visit to the CIA director George Tenet in September last year before his promotion had even been confirmed. According to usually reliable intelligence sources, it can be taken as highly significant that the CIA formally established an assassination team in November, less than two months later. This may be seen as not only a positive US response to the sharing of Israeli experience and expertise, but also as a direct result of the recent lifting of the US presidential ban on "executive action" following the al-Qaeda attacks of September 11, 2001.

more ... (pretty interesting article actually)

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EF13Ak03.html

Like I said this is not really new. They have just decided to unveil it a bit more... Get's those a bit squirmish with they idea use to it. Oh yes there are a million justifications for it. IT'S LIQUIDATION SEASON FOLKS!!

[chesley]

38. WAR, War, War, war

We,and the Israelis, are at war. We are at War. We are at war. War is the most immoral thing that can be done in this world, except not fighting to win. The Palestinians are doing this. The Israelis can do no less.

[bemildred]

42. Well, now I'm convinced.

I certainly would not want to do anything so immoral as
not fighting to win. Thanks for explaining that.

[QuietStorm]

44. LOL

I don't know. Just struck me funny. I did laugh out loud.

[bemildred]

50. It is funny, funny-stupid.

It's the same crap we came up after we got our
asses kicked in VietNam, when in fact they pulled
out all the stops short of turning the place into
radioactive glass. It is a story as old as the hills.
What failed military in recent history has NOT whined
about being undermined from within and held back by
politicians and so on?

Soldiers do not go out there to be killed and their
officers do not go out there to be beaten and get their
men killed, and political leaders do not start wars with
the idea that they will lose and be removed from power,
that is all horseshit. Now we hear this crap from the Israeli
right because their stupid repressive policies have failed,
as it was predicted they would fail here a year and more ago,
and of course it can't be that they had their head up their
ass in the first place, NOOOOOOOOO, they have been undermined
from within and not allowed to fight to win and blah blah blah.
The answer to a failed policy is never remorse or to learn a bit
from the failure, its a call for even more of the failed policy. :puke:

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Herschel]

53. How dare you

Retract that immediately.

[chapter32]

59. Retraction is on you …

In one of your previous posts, as I recall, you used the term “extermination”. Now it’s “liquidation”.

You have chosen to focus this thread on yourself rather than the topic of the post by resorting to the very extremism you have issues with in the first place.

Your extreme language does no good to your cause.

[Darranar]

54. Please...

refrain from personal attacks on this forum. It does nothing for constructive debate.

[pretzel4gore]

30. they no match for wayne gacy or ted bundy...

now them was real cool killers!

[newyorican]

35. Did I miss the dancing and candy?

?

[Astarho]

36. What was that saying?

About those who fight monsters should be careful about becoming monsters themselves.

"liquidiation" that's a nice clean word, isn't it?

[QuietStorm]

37. beats the hell out of voguing!

and it is very envogue right now. The experts are bringing the practice to the Generals in the free world. The UK and the US that is. Executive Action rides again. Now called Pre-emptive Assassination. Who accounts for the bad guys. Well... that would be the good guys;-).

[bemildred]

39. Time for Huxley again:

Means determine ends; and must be like the ends proposed.
Means intrinsically different from the ends proposed achieve
ends like themselves, not like those they were meant to
achieve. Violence and war will produce a peace and an social
organization having the potentialities for more violence and
war.
-- A.H. Eyeless in Gaza

One of the great attractions of patriotism - it fulfils our worst wishes.
In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and cheat.
Bully and cheat, what's more, with a feeling that we are profoundly virtuous.
Sweet and decorous to murder, lie, torture, for the sake of the fatherland.
-- A.H. Eyeless in Gaza

[QuietStorm]

40. Yes how many times must this be stated.

In how many different ways. In how many different languages. And Palestinian retaliation at this stage is not to be commended either. You see the way all the men hit the street for shanab's funeral. That is what is in order now. But... Devastation unto the region... I guess all are waiting for some horror to beat all horrors. You know the hollywood formula. Violence and conflict. All else is considered boring.

[Herschel]

51. There was none

I do not celebrate murder of innocents. I approve of this operation. You know the difference.

[Darranar]

52. How much "speed, skill, and silence"

do you ned to fire a number of rockets from a helicopter?

[Herschel]

55. This was not the topic, my friend

Your posting of late concerns me.

[Darranar]

56. Well, yes...

The Israeli forces sometimes do a very good job, my friend, of stoppping threats against Israel. Other times, they fail miserably and harm others in the process, as happened sadly a while ago.

I am of the opinion that some of those "mistakes" happen on purpose. The same way a small portion of Palestinians are members of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, so too are a small portion of Israelis extremists who would like nothing better than the mass slaughter of Palestinians.

[drdon326]

57. Interesting.

"I am of the opinion that some of those "mistakes" happen on purpose"

pray tell.....what proof , if any , do you base this on??

[Darranar]

58. Laws of probability...

Not proof, but great evidence. For instance, who in his right mind would say that all murders in the US not confessed to were accidents?