Transponders off = no way to find the planes? NOW with Bill Moyers

[soundfury]

I just watched NOW with Bill Moyers and in his report he basically says that when the
Hijackers turned off the transponders, the F16Õs had NO WAY of finding the hijacked planes.

Is this really true, with radar and all the satellites we have up there?

I mean, how does an F16 find enemy aircraft in the first place?

An enemy aircraft wouldnÕt exactly be announcing its presence.

Besides, a 747 isnÕt exactly designed to be radar proof.

Anyone else smell the bullshit?

[punpirate]

1. My understanding that the plane...

... would be visible on both air traffic control and interceptor radar.

Some information would not be available, however. Air traffic control would not have accurate altitude information, and the interceptor would not have "friend or foe" information.

But, radar should still be able to provide basic location information.

[BP2]

2. Skin Paint

The F-16 has a type of doplar radar that can detect movement, and can also "skin paint" like ground based FAA Secondary RADAR can.

I know that F-18s can count fan blades of any aircraft and then compare it to its onboard database. So they don't need transponders to find aircraft, although I'm sure it makes it easier.

[MercutioATC]

7. Actually, it's primary radar, but you're correct.

It's ground-based FAA primary radar that detects the actual targets.

[DieboldMustDie]

3. Enemy aircraft always keep their transponders on as a favor to U.S. pilots

:eyes:

[sambird90]

4. aircraft mechanic

in navy for 5 years this veteran is for KERRY!!!! even your best radars on land are limited to a realitivly small area. ones on planes much smaller. the transponder basically is a radio signal from the plane to the tower to let them know where plane is.I have been outof military for 14 years but i think thats the way it is.:hippie: }(

[Ready4Change]

5. No it's not true.

F-16's have their own radar. It may not be as long ranged as the ATC network of ground based radars, which is why you hear talk of things like "vectoring in fighters." Basically that is guiding fighters onto a course which will allow them to pick up the targets on their own radar.

Airliners are anything but stealthy. The lack of a transponder code would have caused radar scopes to loose altitude information, and would probably have caused the scopes to loose ID information. At that point it is up to the scope operator to notice the change and connect the dots. As hard as that might sound, it's something they are trained to do, and do every day.

In my opinion, the idea the 9/11 airliners dropped of the scopes is total BS. The failure wasn't detection. The failure was to order interceptors launched, vector them in to see what was up with these airliners. Then, after 1 or 2 had demonstrated their intent, the failure was in not ordering the rest shot down.

(All my apologies to friends and families of those aboard those planes.)

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

6. They would still show up

The transponder transmits a unique 4 digit transponder code plus altitude information to aid in air traffic control. The planes would show up on radar regardless of whether the transponder was turned on.

It is possible that what the report meant was that the F16s would have trouble picking out the planes from all the other traffic without the transponder code.

[drdtroit]

8. I've felt buried in BS from the moment

the 2nd plane hit the WTC.

[agincourt]

9. I thought we had look down, shoot down radar,

though I think the range of the fighters own radar is small, 50-100 miles or so.

[tngledwebb]

10. Smells pretty strong.

As other posts point out, enemy aircraft wouldn't need/have transponders. US and most passenger aircraft transponders tell radar flight number, altitude, speed, to aid ATC distinguishing hundreds of planes on their radar. But even with transponders turned off, radar still shows blips. What Moyers should have asked next is how is it possible for the biggest, most technologically sophisticated military in the world to lose track of Boeings w/o transponders? Or, why and how were transponders turned off in the first place, since radar would still locate the erratic blips, especially when all other aircraft would still have transponders ON?

[RH]

11. how is it possible?

If you want a serious answer consider the Law of Requisite Variety:

http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/REQVAR.html