Dov Zackheim is NOT an Israeli citizen.

[geek tragedy]

1. He is a natural born citizen of the United States, having been born in Brooklyn.

2. He never became a permanent resident of Israel or expressed an intent to settle in Israel. Hence, Israel's Law of Return does not apply.

3. As part of the Reagan administration during the Lavi, he was publicly villified by the Israeli government as being an "American Jew" who had turned his back on his people.

4. He is a right-wing asshole and Neocon nutter. But, to insist on calling him an Israeli citizen smacks of the same "dual loyalty" crap that Jews have been hearing for thousands of years. It's a distraction from the real fight-getting Bush out of the office.

5. I will publicly retract this if someone can provide FACTS showing his Israeli citizenship. This does not mean unsupported conclusions from fringe journalists with dubious histories of accuracy.

[Minstrel Boy]

1. I'm sure Wayne Madsen quakes in his boots

at your calling him a "fringe journalist."

And trying to silence debate about the motivation of such dark actors as Zackheim, Perle, Wolfowitz et al by invoking the warhorse of anti-semitism is an insult to the true victims of anti-semitism. After all we've learned about Israeli spies in the Pentagon, how crappy really is your "'dual loyalty' crap" gambit?

[geek tragedy]

3. Let's be honest--the reason people have said that Zackheim

is an Israeli is that his name sounds Israeli. Madsen said he was a dual-citizen because he read it somewhere on the Internet. Has anything he "reported" ever been proven?

Wasn't that Israeli "spy" a WASP?

The PNAC'ers/Neocons certainly were up to no good. They lied about Iraq's threat to the US, including lies about its WMD's and ties to AQ, in order to lead us into an unnecessary, ideologically driven war.

But that doesn't make them Israeli agents.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. Gee, haven't seen this one before

Silence all debate by invoking anti-Semitism. How long do you think this can continue working?

[geek tragedy]

4. When people stop assuming Jews

have dual loyalty. Zackheim is a rightwing asshole, but he's not an Israeli agent.

Again, if someone cares to prove me wrong, go ahead.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

10. Why should we prove you wrong?

You didn't cite a damn thing.

[geek tragedy]

12. The accusation is of dual-loyalty.

The accusers have the burden of proof. Applies to the freepers, applies to the CT'ers.

What credible source gives evidence that this guy is a citizen of Israel?

There is a word for baseless accusations. It's called a "lie."

[stickdog]

19. Many neocons quite obviously have dual loyalty.

What you think this concept has to do Israeli citizenship or even practicing Judaism is beyond me. Is stating the obvious about these neocons' agendas now anti-Semitic?

[geek tragedy]

21. People are using Zakheim's fictional dual-citizenship

as evidence of Israeli involvement in 9/11 (I'm not even going to get into the whole remote control issue).

If he's not a dual-citizen, then that's a piece of 9/11 Conspiracinalia debunked.

One poster stated that a 9/11 discussion was also by definition an Israeli discussion because Zakheim was involved. The issue of Zakheim's citizenship came up, and now I'm taking the opportunity to demolish that myth.

[seemslikeadream]

26. Nonsense

and the fact that he does or does not have duel citizenship has little to do with the other facts I have posted, like being a war profiteer.


Grand old profiteering
Conservatives accuse Richard Clarke of using 9/11 revelations to peddle his book, but plenty of Republicans are cashing in on the war on terror.

By Joe Conason
Yet even Allbaugh is small-time compared to the latest defector to the private sector, Pentagon comptroller Dov Zakheim, who announced two weeks ago that he will be leaving for a partnership at Booz Allen Hamilton, the technology and management strategy giant that is one of the nation's biggest defense contractors. Although Zakheim is not nearly as familiar as Condoleezza Rice, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, or Defense Policy Board member Richard Perle, he too has been identified as one of the ultrahawkish "Vulcans" who shaped Bush foreign and military policy from its earliest days. Zakheim has bustled through the revolving doors before, serving as a deputy undersecretary of defense during the Reagan administration, where he worked for Perle before leaving government to join a missile-defense contractor.

At the mammoth Booz Allen firm, Zakheim will join R. James Woolsey, the former director of central intelligence and Perle associate on the Bush Defense Policy Board. These were the defense intellectuals who favored invading Iraq long before Sept. 11 -- and long before any U.N. resolutions on the topic were introduced.

So far Booz Allen has yet to win any major Iraq contracts of its own, although it has shared Pentagon boodle for several years with Kellogg Brown & Root, the Halliburton subsidiary that is by far the biggest contractor out there. (At a recent hearing on Halliburton's scandal-scarred performance in Iraq, Zakheim did his best to defend the vice president's old company. "They're not doing a great job," he shrugged, "but they're not doing a terrible job.")

Booz Allen swiftly jumped on the Baghdad bandwagon last May, when it co-sponsored (with the Republican-connected insurance giant American International Group) a postwar conference on "The Challenges for Business in Rebuilding Iraq" that featured speeches by Woolsey and Undersecretary of Defense Zakheim. (The price of admission for industry executives ranged from $528 to $1,100 a head.) Included was the chance for executives to participate in a "not-for-attribution session that will permit a dynamic, frank exchange of views on the opportunities and challenges businesses will face in post-conflict Iraq."

More recently, Booz Allen was listed as a partner in a controversial $327 million contract to outfit the new Iraqi army. The prime contractor in this murky deal was Nour America Inc., which on closer inspection turned out to be controlled by a close associate of Ahmad Chalabi, the dubious former exile promoted by Perle, Woolsey and their ideological associates as the best possible leader for Iraq after Saddam. Chalabi is a leading member of the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council and enjoys enormous influence inside the Defense Department, which issued the Nour contract.
http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:iUASMhjvMuIJ:www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2004/03/30/profiteers/+Booz+Allen+Hamilton+Zakheim&hl=en

[geek tragedy]

29. So, we agree that his citizenship is irrelevant

and has no place being discussed on DU. Fabulous!

[seemslikeadream]

31. Why not go into the remote control issue? Dov the CEO of SPC

The CEO of SPC
Dr. Dov Zakheim has been nominated to serve as Under Secretary of Defense and Comptroller. He is presently the CEO of SPC International, and in the past he has served as Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Planning and Resources as well as in a variety of Defense Department positions under former President Reagan. He was a member of the Task Force on Defense Reform under then-Secretary of Defense William Cohen and in February of 2000 he was appointed to the Defense Science Board Task Force on the Impact of DoD Acquisition Policies on the Health of the Defense Industry. He has received the Department of Defense Distinguished Public Service Medal; the Bronze Palm to the DoD Distinguished Public Service Medal and the CBO Director's Award for Outstanding Service. A New York native, Dr. Zakheim is a graduate of Columbia University and has also studied at the London School of Economics. He received his doctorate degree from St. Anthony's College at Oxford University.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20010212-2.html

It was an SPC subsidiary, TRIDATA CORPORATION, that oversaw the investigation after the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center in 1993.





Flight Termination System

System Planning Corporation's is proud to offer the Flight Termination System (FTS), a fully redundant turnkey range safety and test system for remote control and flight termination of airborne test vehicles. The FTS consists of SPC's Command Transmitter System (CTS) and custom control, interface, and monitoring subsystems. The system is fully programmable and is flexible enough to meet the changing and challenging requirements of today's modern test ranges.




http://www.sysplan.com /


Dr. Dov S. Zakheim
CEO, Systems Planning Corporation International

Dov S. Zakheim is Corporate Vice President of System Planning Corporation (SPC), a high technology, research, analysis, and manufacturing firm based in Arlington, Virginia. He is also Chief Executive Officer of SPC International Corporation, a subsidiary of SPC that specializes in political, military and economic consulting, and international sales and analysis. In addition, Dr. Zakheim serves as Consultant to the Secretary of Defense and the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy. He is an Adjunct Scholar of the Heritage Foundation, and a Senior Associate of the Center for International and Strategic Studies.

From 1985 until March 1987, Dr. Zakheim was Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Planning and Resources. In that capacity, he played an active role in the Department's system acquisition and strategic planning processes. Dr. Zakheim also guided Department of Defense policy in a number of international economic fora including the US-USSR Commercial Commission; the Caribbean Basin Initiative; and the Canadian-US Free Trade Agreement. He also successfully negotiated numerous arms cooperation agreements with various US allies.


A graduate of Columbia University, New York, where he earned his B.A., Surnma Cum Laude, and was elected to Phi Beta Kappa, Dr. Zakheim also studied at the London School of Economics. Dr. Zakheim earned his doctorate in economics and politics at St. Antony's College, University of Oxford, where he was a National Science Foundation Graduate Fellow, a Columbia College Kellett Fellow, and a post-doctoral Research Fellow. He has served as Adjunct Professor at the National War College, Yeshiva University and at Columbia University. He is currently Presidential Scholar and Adjunct Professor at Trinity College, Hartford, CT.

Dr. Zakheim served for two terms as a Presidential appointee to the United States Commission for the Preservation of America's Heritage Abroad. In 1997 he was appointed by Secretary of Defense Cohen to the Task Force on Defense Reform. In May 1999 Secretary Cohen named him to the first Board of Visitors of the Department of Defense Overseas Regional Schools.

Dr. Zakheim writes, lectures, and provides radio and television commentary on national defense and foreign policy issues both domestically and internationally, including appearances on major US network news telecasts, McNeil-Lehrer Newshour, Larry King Live, BBC Arab and World Service. and Israeli, Swedish, and Japanese television. He is an editorial board member of Israel Affairs and of The Round Table (the Commonwealth Journal of International Affairs), and serves on review panels for the Wilson Center for International Scholars, the United States Institute of Peace, and the U.S. Naval Institute. He is the author of Flight of the Lavi: Inside a US.-Israeli Crisis (Brassey's, 1996), Congress and National Security in the Post Cold War Era (The Nixon Center, 1998), and numerous articles and chapters in books. Dr. Zakheim is also a trustee of the Foreign Policy Research Institute; serves on the Board of Directors of Search for Common Ground, and of Friends of the Jewish Chapel of the United States Naval Academy; and is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and other professional organizations. Dr. Zakheim is a member of the advisory boards of the Center for Security Policy, the Initiative for Peace and Cooperation in the Middle East, and the American Jewish Committee

more
http://www.ndu.edu/inss/symposia/jointops00/zakheim.htm...

[geek tragedy]

32. Two points:

1. There is no indication that the kind of technology exists to fly a jumbo jet.

2. There is no indication that it was used on the planes themselves.

3. There have been hundreds upon hundreds of suicide bombers. Why is that so unbelievable now?

4. Do you think the people so diabolically clever that they fooled the vast majority of Americans and European intelligence services would be so Cheneying stupid as to include the guy with the magic bullet for 9/11? And then to advertise the technology on their Cheneying website?

5. If there was remote control, why have hijackers?

6. Again, is there ANY evidence of remote controlled planes? Or just random dot-connecting.

[reorg]

35. Didn't you see that?

"Before the final flight on December 1, 1984, more then four years of effort passed trying to set-up final impact conditions considered survivable by the FAA. During those years while 14 flights with crews were flown the following major efforts were underway: NASA Dryden developed the remote piloting techniques necessary for the B-720 to fly as a drone aircraft; General Electric installed and tested four degraders (one on each engine); and the FAA refined AMK (blending, testing, and fueling a full size aircraft). The 14 flights had 9 takeoffs, 13 landings and around 69 approaches, to about 150 feet above the prepared crash site, under remote control. "


http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Photo/CID/HTML/index.html

[seemslikeadream]

60. Thanks so much reorg

for that link. I've saved all the photos. Just in case they're taken off line for some reason.

[AZCat]

64. There are also movies at Dryden of the CID...

The movies are here: NASA Dryden CID Aircraft Movie Collection


I doubt this stuff would ever be pulled off line for security reasons. It is well known that there is technology for remote guidance of planes. my senior year in school almost all of the aerospace engineering senior design projects had to do with UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles). Tons of stuff has been written, and it has been covered too extensively for this example (from 1984) to be of national security interest.

[Minstrel Boy]

36. "There is no indication that the kind of technology exists

to fly a jumbo jet."

You do love the broad, sweeping statements, don't you?

Of course there is.

I posted a link to this story in my thread about Flight 77:

"Raytheon announced Monday the company is working on a secure military and civilian system that relies on ground units to improve the precision of satellite navigation.

"The company successfully landed a FedEx Corp. 727 cargo aircraft without the help of a pilot at Holloman Air Force Base in August (2001)."
http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/news01/100201_news_remote.shtml

[geek tragedy]

38. So I see.

It is in the realm of physical possibility.

So, anything besides your imagination to indicate that's what happened?

[stickdog]

62. Why do you need to use remote control? You could just put the waypoints

into the flight computer's autopilot. Today you can even use a handy palm pilot to upload this information. After that, the plane's autopilot will do the rest. Even the very first 757's and 767's had the ability to "fly by wire" in this manner.

In this case, the hijackers would be needed to disable the pilot, upload the data, and then make sure nobody turns off the autopilot.

[stickdog]

40. If Zakheim & his neocon crew have OBVIOUSLY strong Israeli sympathies.

So your disputing whether or not he is actually an Israeli citizen is as meaningless as Rove disputing whether or not the CBS documents about Bush's TANG service are real.

It doesn't matter. Take the letters away and Bush still refused his physical and didn't fulfill his Guard duty. Take the citizenship away and neocons like Zakheim still have dual loyalties.

[geek tragedy]

42. Dual loyalty is a very serious charge.

Where is your evidence? Sympathy is not the same thing as loyalty. I have sympathy for the Iraqi people, but I am not loyal to Iraq.

Do you get your information on this reporters you admire like Chris Bollyn? You know, the Nazi.

[stickdog]

44. You do yourself no favors when you dispute the obvious.

http://www.globes.co.il/DocsEn/did=357233.htm

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/bookrev/Zakheim.html

http://www.miis.edu/docs/GSIPS-Arrow-Paper-Final-5-12-WR-2.pdf

http://www.dolphin.org.il/dolphins/project.htm

[geek tragedy]

45. Where is the dual loyalty?

He is blaming ISRAEL for its poor image in certain quarters in the US. How on god's green earth do you get dual loyalty out of that?

Put down your copy of the American Free Press and think.

[stickdog]

46. His loyalty is to the hardline elements of the Likud Party.

Same as his loyalty to the fascist elements of the Rupublican Party here.

I mean, it's no big deal or anything. More than half of Congress acts as is they have dual loyalty with Israel.

I just don't understand where dual citizenship fits into the equation. Having it doesn't make one a hardline Zionist and lacking it doesn't make one any less loyal to the Israel's security interests.

[geek tragedy]

47. You still have provided no evidence that he is loyal to Israel to the Bibi

wing of Likud.

He blames ISRAEL for its poor image here--pointedly rejecting the charge of anti-semitism.

He has STRONGLY CRITICIZED SETTLEMENTS. By definition, he can't be a Likud hardliner with that attitude.

You still have not provided any evidence. You have brought nothing to the table.

You've been reading too much from slimeball propagandists like Christopher Bollyn. Maybe when you figure out why praising guys like Christopher Bollyn is a bad thing you can reclaim some of your lost credibility on anything involving, well, anything.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[geek tragedy]

52. I'd rather defend an allegedly corrupt Neocon

than a confirmed NAZI.

Seriously, anyone who defends the NAZI PROPAGANDA has no credibility in decent society. Especially when it comes to issues involving Jews, Israel, and "dual loyalty."

Not because that person is a bigot--I'm not accusing you of that--but because they are willing to swallow any lie that an admitted NAZI PROPAGANDIST feeds them. Anyone who views a NAZI PROPAGANDIST as a credible source has nothing worthwhile to contribute to sane discourse.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LARED]

5. It's amazing what

strange bedfellows 9/11 CT'er will make to prop up their pet theories.

Many of the best known 9/11 revisionists (ie "truth" movement advocates) have no problems associating and networking themselves with known holocaust deniers, anti-semites, neo-nazi wannabees, etc get their voice heard.

[geek tragedy]

6. Indeed.

I started a thread about this a while ago--pointing out people using Nazi puke assholes like John Kaminski as sources of information. Now, Madsen most certainly is not any kind of bigot, but most CT'ers are lazy with their facts and don't check out the sources of information useful to their hypotheses.

The "Zackheim is an Israeli" canard got its start on Neo-Nazi/other anti-semitic websites.

http://www.google.com/search?q=dov+zackheim+OR+zakheim+%22dual+citizen%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&as_qdr=all&filter=0

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&as_qdr=all&q=dov+zackheim+OR+zakheim+%22dual+citizenship%22&btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&as_qdr=all&q=dov+zackheim+OR+zakheim+%22israeli+citizen%22&btnG=Search

[stickdog]

20. What's more amazing is how quickly coincidence theorists resort to

smearing people with the broad brush of anti-semitism based using spurious "assumed connections" that would make even the most wild eyed conspiracy theorist blush.

[geek tragedy]

22. The Zakheim dual citizenship rumors have their origin with Neo-Nazis and

known anti-Semites. See the google searches I posted--a remarkable number of such hate sites pops up. No credible site discusses the fact.

Many progressive CT'ers are sloppy and get their facts from Neo Nazis. DU used frequently have posts linking to work from Holocaust deniers. There's a link to a Nazi website in the "Where did 77 hit the ground?" thread.

[stickdog]

25. But the man obviously HAS dual loyalties. So why does it matter if he

has dual citizenship?

I'm trying to get this straight. You are trying to combat antisemitism by using the example of scummy Jewish neocon power broker who obviously HAS dual loyalties.

Because someone "insulted" him by suggesting that he ALSO had dual citizenship?

[geek tragedy]

27. How does he OBVIOUSLY have dual loyalties?

Because he's a member of the PNAC? PNAC'ers are dangerous ideologues and imperialists, but that's not the same thing as being a dual loyalty kind of guy.

I'm glad you agree that his citizenship is not an issue, and therefore should not be mentioned when discussing 9/11 or anything else for that matter.

[stickdog]

41. Perhaps he just thinks that anything that's good for the Likud Party is

also good for the USA.

But what's the difference between this and having dual loyalties in practice?

[geek tragedy]

54. Where is your evidence of that?

He opposes SETTLEMENTS. How can that be part of his hardcore Likud line?

[LARED]

34. Broad Brush?

Hardly -- one only needs to use google and one will find far too many of the 9/11 revisionist are have been practicing historical revisionism for a long time. Holocaust deniers. Some closet anti-semites, some out of the closet Jew haters. Many of them a either far left or far right wingers. They sort of gel together at the far end of either political spectrum.

My guess is that most of them are engaged in the establishment of a new cottage industry called 9/11 conspiracy.

The anti-semitic, anti-zionist, CIA killed JKF, Pearl Harbor was a USA government plot industries have matured and were generating limited funds.

[seemslikeadream]

7. fringe journ.dubious histories of accuracy - former intelligence officer

Haaretz - Israel News
... "Titan and CACI have close ties to the Israeli security and technology establishment,"
Wayne Madsen, who served on the US National Security Council during the ...
www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/446801.html

"Titan and CACI have close ties to the Israeli security and technology establishment," Wayne Madsen, who served on the U.S. National Security Council during the Reagan administration, wrote in a recently published article on the Counterpunch Web site (www.counterpunch.org), which reflects American radical left attitudes. CACI denied all allegations against it.

Wayne Madsen: Exposing Karl Rove
... Exposing Karl Rove. by WAYNE MADSEN. ... Wayne Madsen is a Washington, DC-based investigative
journalist and columnist. He wrote the introduction to Forbidden Truth. ...
www.counterpunch.org/madsen1101.html - 29k

CyberTerrorism: Panelists: Wayne Madsen
... Wayne Madsen Senior Fellow, Electronic Privacy Information Center Mr. Madsen is
a Senior Fellow of the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC), a non ...
iml.dartmouth.edu/ists/madsen.html - 19k -

Terrorism and the election: No postponement, just bedlam at the ...
... By Wayne Madsen Online Journal Contributing Writer. ... Wayne Madsen is a
Washington, DC-based investigative journalist and columnist. ...
www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/ 071504Madsen/071504madsen.html

Citizens for Legitimate Government
... Target! No postponement, just bedlam at the polls and a low turnout on the
west coast is Bush's plan for 'victory' by Wayne Madsen. You ...
www.legitgov.org/essay_madsen_ terrorism_and_california_071404.html

Cheney at the Helm | Wayne Madsen
Cheney at the Helm, By Wayne Madsen in the September 2000 issue of The Progressive
magazine. ... At Halliburton, oil and human rights did not mix. By Wayne Madsen. ...
www.progressive.org/wm0900.htm

INN World Report - News
INN World Report : This week on INN: Wayne Madsen on Porter Goss. Posted
by admin on 2004/8/13 13:52:35 (86 reads). INN World Report ...
inn.globalfreepress.com/ modules/news/article.php?storyid=680

Wayne Madsen: Proposed national energy policy bill draws heated ...
... Section: Related Article. « back. Wayne Madsen: Proposed national
energy policy bill draws heated debate. ...
www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/relatedarticles/18586.php

Mike Sullivan responds to Wayne Madsen Article: Bush Thanksgiving ...
Back to Index. Mike Sullivan responds to Wayne Madsen Article: Bush Thanksgiving
in Iraq. Here is Mike Sullivan's comment on the Wayne ...
wais.stanford.edu/Iraq/ iraq_ThanksgivingBush1(120103).html

Scoop: Wayne Madsen - Bush's Military & Political Reality
Wayne Madsen - Bush's Military & Political Reality Wednesday, 2 June
2004, 12:13 pm Article: Between The Lines. ***** From ...
www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0406/S00014.htm

Haaretz - Israel News
... "Titan and CACI have close ties to the Israeli security and technology establishment,"
Wayne Madsen, who served on the US National Security Council during the ...
www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/446801.html

Special Reports
... The McGreevey scandal: An Israeli-Rove Connection? By Wayne Madsen. ... Iraq Survey Group
Donald Rumsfeld's al Qaeda By John Stanton and Wayne Madsen. ...
www.onlinejournal.com/Special_ Reports/special_reports.html

International Study Opportunities
Wayne Madsen. Wayne Madsen is a Senior Fellow of the Electronic Privacy Information
Center (EPIC), non-partisan privacy public advocacy group in Washington, DC. ...
www.international.harvard.edu/ cfia/panelist_bio.php?id=94

Wired News: Stories by Wayne Madsen
... Advertisement. Stories by Wayne Madsen. 1 to 2 of 2. ... By Ashley Craddock and
Wayne Madsen. 2.Teens a Threat, Pentagon Says 03:10 PM Jun. ...
www.wired.com/news/storylist/0,2339,1126,00.html

KUCI Subversity Press Release for July 16, 2002 Show
... On Subversity, a KUCI public affairs interview program, we chat with Wayne Madsen,
a former intelligence officer who has since "come in out of the cold". ...
www.kuci.uci.edu/~dtsang/subversity/pr020716.htm

Toppling a Totalitarian Regime in America: What Can Be Done?
... John Stanton and Wayne Madsen “…Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments
long established should not be changed for light and transient causes ...
www.democrats.com/view.cfm?id=7915

Pacifica.org
... 7, 2003. Pacifica's PeaceWatch. Today's Stories: Still No Telephones in Baghdad
Wayne Madsen - Who Is L. Paul Bremer? ... . Wayne Madsen - Who Is L. Paul Bremer ...
www.pacifica.org/programs/ peacewatch/030507_peacewatch.html

Online NewsHour: Spy Plane Standoff -- April 3, 2001
... He is joined by Winston Lord and James Lilley, former ambassadors to China, David
Shambaugh, a professor of political science, and Wayne Madsen, a former Navy ...
www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/jan-june01/china_4-3.html

[geek tragedy]

8. Still fringe and unreliable.

Every poster on DU knows that Bush issues terror alerts for political purposes. Big deal.

His report that the Pope thinks Bush is the anti-Christ was amusing reader, but not the work of a credible reporter.


In any event, "Wayne Madsen said so" is not proof of anything.

[Minstrel Boy]

9. Bush's "Christian" Blood Cult

What Madsen said:

"According to journalists close to the Vatican, the Pope and his closest advisers are also concerned that the ultimate acts of evil - the September 11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon - were known in advance by senior Bush administration officials. By permitting the attacks to take their course, there is a perception within the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy that a coup d'etat was implemented, one that gave Bush and his leadership near-dictatorial powers to carry out their agenda."
http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen04222003.html

What you said:
"His report that the Pope thinks Bush is the anti-Christ"

"Geek Tragedy said so" is proof of what?

[geek tragedy]

11. Did you read the entire article?

"Bush's blood lust, his repeated commitment to Christian beliefs, and his constant references to "evil doers," in the eyes of many devout Catholic leaders, bear all the hallmarks of the one warned about in the Book of Revelations - the anti-Christ. People close to the Pope claim that amid these concerns, the Pontiff wishes he was younger and in better health to confront the possibility that Bush may represent the person prophesized in Revelations. John Paul II has always believed the world was on the precipice of the final confrontation between Good and Evil as foretold in the New Testament. Before he became Pope, Karol Cardinal Wojtyla said, "We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of the American society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel versus the anti-Gospel." The Pope, who grew up facing the evils of Hitler and Stalin, knows evil when he sees it. Although we can all endlessly argue over the Pope's effectiveness in curtailing abuses within his Church, his accomplishments external to Catholicism are impressive."

[Minstrel Boy]

14. yeah, so?

The point I was trying to make is that Madsen has sources close to the Vatican. In other words, he's not making shit up, as you've accused him of doing re: Zakheim, because he "read something on the Internet."

You don't like what he has to say, that's your business. But he's a credible journalist with good connections.

[geek tragedy]

16. Credible?

His story about the Pope is BULLSHIT. The Pope had the strength to grant an audience to the man he believes is evil incarnate, according to Madsen.

Remember, it was Madsen who said that his "DOJ sources" told him that PLAME INDICTEMENTS ARE DUE ANY DAY NOW.

What was that, two months ago?

He doesn't have good sources at the Vatican. He doesn't have good sources at DoJ. He's not a reliable source for anything.

He's less credible than the National Enquirer.

Edited to add: It was actually 2.5 months ago that he said "Indictments now or never." (paraphrased)http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1889787

[seemslikeadream]

13. More publications that think Madsen is credible

Tallahassee Democrat | 09/11/2004 | . . . but Nader lacks the ...
... BY WAYNE MADSEN KNIGHT RIDDER TRIBUNE. ... Wayne Madsen is a senior fellow at
the Electronic Privacy Information Center (www.epic.org). ...
www.tallahassee.com/mld/ democrat/news/opinion/9632752.htm

Democracy Now! | Florida Creates "the Matrix", a Big Brother-Like ...
... We talk with privacy expert Wayne Madsen, investigative reporter Greg Palast and
a top intelligence official from the state of Florida. ...
www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/08/07/1427223

Scoop: Scoop Top 30 Daily Ratings
... http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0405/S00151.htm. 10: Wayne Madsen -
Bush's Military & Political Reality Bush "Stays Course ...
www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/NM0406/S00003.htm

Florida Creates "the Matrix", a Big Brother-Like Surveillance ...
... We talk with privacy expert Wayne Madsen, investigative reporter Greg Palast and
a top intelligence official from the state of Florida. . ...
www.democracynow.org/print.pl?sid=03/08/07/1427223

The Village Voice: Features: A Most Unusual Collection Agency by ...
... features. How the US undid UNSCOM through its empire of electronic ears A Most Unusual
Collection Agency by Jason Vest And Wayne Madsen February 24 - March 2 ...
www.villagevoice.com/issues/9908/vest_madsen.php

Wired News: Teens a Threat, Pentagon Says
... Teens a Threat, Pentagon Says. Wayne Madsen | Also by this reporter Page 1 of 1. ...
More stories written by Wayne Madsen. Page 1 of 1. ...
www.wired.com/news/news/business/story/12687.html

(DV) Stanton and Madsen: Iraq Survey Group
... Iraq Survey Group Donald Rumsfeld's Al Qaeda by John Stanton and Wayne Madsen
www.dissidentvoice.org July 9, 2004 Send this page to a friend! (click here). ...
www.dissidentvoice.org/July2004/Stanton-Madsen0709.htm

The Insider - Insight on the News - Features
... Thanks to insider John Podhoretz, an Insight alum, for picking up Wayne Madsen's
report carried on the left-wing CounterPunch Website claiming that the ...
www.insightmag.com/news/2003/ 12/23/Features/The-Insider-573616.shtml

Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney Covert Action in Africa
... Prepared Statement of Wayne Madsen WHAT A DIFFERENCE AN
ELECTION MAKES: OR DOES IT? Wayne Madsen is ...
muhammadfarms.com/Covert_Action_in_Africa.htm


CyberTerrorism: Transcript
... protection. 00.00.46.9, Wayne Madsen, Hi, I'm Wayne Madsen, senior fellow,
the Electronic Privacy Information Center, Washington, DC. ...
iml.dartmouth.edu/ists/transcript.html

Insight on the News
... http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/052104Madsen/052104madsen.html
Karl Rove's White House " Murder, Inc." By Wayne Madsen . ...
www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=forums& message_id=17741&action=postreply

[geek tragedy]

15. So, everything he says is automatically true?

I didn't know a prophet walked amongst us.

It is funny that this highly explosive piece of information hasn't appeared in a single credible publication. After all--having DoD people with dual-citizenship seems like a really outrageous proposition.


Things that make you go "hmmmmm."

As I said, people can contact Madsen and ask him how he knows this.

Dual-citizenship by itself would be worth a news story. By someone. Somewhere.

[stickdog]

23. My God, you just love wrestling those strawmen, don't you?

1) Overstate opinion.
2) Retreat while defeating a puny strawman.
3) Repeat.

[geek tragedy]

24. Other than Wayne Madsen, is there any evidence that Zakheim

has dual citizenship?

The answer is no.

Do you agree that an off-hand remark by Madsen is by itself insufficient to support the allegation of dual citizenship?

Madsen himself provides no evidence or proof to support the allegation. Because none exists.

[stickdog]

28. To me, it's a non-issue. The issue is dual loyalty no dual citizenship.

Zakheim obviously has dual loyalties. So what's your point other than nitpicking that nobody here can PROVE the trivial dual citizenship non-issue?

[geek tragedy]

30. Well, dual citizenship is the prime evidence of dual loyalty.

What is his "obvious" dual loyalty? Belonging to the PNAC?

[seemslikeadream]

17. He did find $28 million dollars to give to Israel for automatic gear

Zakheim, an Orthodox Jew who defines himself as a friend of Israel, speaks as though he knows exactly where the problem is to be found, and what to do about it. The problem, as far as he's concerned, is the settlements, and the solution is to negotiate an agreement, the sooner the better.

"I think Israel has in the past three years lost a strategic opportunity to make progress with the Palestinians," he said, seated in his new, Washington area office as vice president of the large consulting firm Booz-Allen-Hamilton. "The right approach is to say, `look, we have a White House that supports us, we have a president who cares about Israel's security and whom we trust. Now, using that as a strength, what need we do to solve the Palestinian issue."

Zakheim's last visit to Israel was in March, a short time before he left his post as Defense Department Comptroller. This visit, like preceding trips in recent years, made Zakheim feel uneasy. "Every time I go to Israel it looks dirtier than before," he complained. "Jerusalem is a disgrace to look at. Each time I go there it looks more and more like a garbage can."

Zakheim's grievances are not limited to aesthetics. He believes Israel's situation is deteriorating in all respects because of its investment in settlements. "You're taking money out of education, money out of welfare, money out of jobs, money out of infrastructure, and pouring it into the West Bank," he said. "Israel's society is suffering a lot as a result of the settlements."

"Pat Buchanan, in my view, is an anti-Semite," said Zakheim. "I'm sorry, but you cannot keep saying what he says, and say he's not an anti-Semite. He is an anti-Semite. I know one when I see one."

Israelis who worked with Zakheim are full of praise for his professionalism. Though he always upheld American interests, they say, he had a warm place in his heart for Israel and he did as much as he could to help. For instance, after the start of the intifada, when it became clear that Israel's police force lacked equipment to defuse bombs, Zakheim found funds, and arranged a transfer of $28 million for automatic gear used by sappers. Zakheim is proud of his close relations with many Israelis - recently his son was married in Jerusalem, but at the time, a stepson who went on a photo-shoot in Hebron was beaten by settlers.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/441712.html

[geek tragedy]

18. So what?

That is not evidence of citizenship. It's not even evidence of corruption.

He also is strongly against SETTLEMENTS, according to your own article. Does that fit in with the Bibi mentality? Not to mention the fight he got in with the Israelis over the Lavi affair, in which he was branded a "bad Jew" by not only Israelis, but American Jews as well.

[seemslikeadream]

33. Dov Zakheim did step down and is under investigation

Pentagon finance manager resigns

Thursday 11 March 2004

Rabbi Dov Zakheim's refused to tell journalists the exact reason for his departure on Wednesday. A former adjunct economics professor at New York's Yeshiva University, Rabbi Zakheim has spent more than 30 years working in various jobs at the Pentagon.

But he has also worked in private industry, specifically as a consultant to McDonnell Douglas and Boeing.


Rabbi Dov Zakheim,
Pentagon comptroller and chief financial officer, a conservative Republican who graduated from Jew's College in London in 1973, Zakheim first joined the Department of Defence in 1981 under former president Ronald Reagan.

He was responsible for such tasks as preparing defence planning guidance for nuclear war.

As Pentagon Comptroller and Chief Financial Officer, Rabbi Zakheim's priority has been financial management.
But that does not include additional spending needed to support US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan - a sum expected to range from $30 billion to $50 billion.


A General Accounting Office report found Defence inventory systems so lax that the US army lost track of 56 aeroplanes, 32 tanks and 36 Javelin missile command launch-units.
more
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/635B6007-9DD0-436C-BFF6-E6521520B1C7.htm


Analysis: Defense budget practices probed
Thursday, 02-Oct-2003 10:00AM PDT Story from United Press International
Copyright 2003 by United Press International (via ClariNet)

MIAMI, Oct. 2 (UPI) --

Zakheim said, however, he was limited in his response because of the ongoing audit of the issue, which originally was sparked by a telephone call to the Pentagon's Defense Hotline.


"Our objective will be to review the allegations to the Defense Hotline concerning funds 'parked' at the U.S. Special Operations Command by the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense (Comptroller)," said a letter from the inspector general's office to Gen. Charles Holland, who has since retired as Special Operations commander.

Among several documents The St. Petersburg Times obtained during its investigation was e-mail sent by Special Operations Command Comptroller Elaine Kingston to colleagues in February 2002.
She said an unidentified official in the Pentagon comptroller's office had asked her if the command could "park" $40 million of research-and-development money in its proposed budget for the 2003 fiscal year.


The programs where the money was placed included missile warning systems on aircraft, infrared equipment on helicopters and radar system. The amounts ranged from $2 million to $5 million.
Kingston said in the e-mail message she coached her colleagues on how to account for the money and avoid attracting congressional attention to it.

"We are doing a favor for the OSD (Office of the Secretary of Defense) which we hope will benefit the command if we should need additional (research and development funds)," the message said.
Young said at the hearing on President Bush's request for $87 billion for Iraq and Afghanistan Tuesday that he wants to know if it is a common practice.

Young is clearly not finished and called it "an obvious attempt to keep from Congress what was happening. I think that would make you suspicious. It makes me a little suspicious."

more
http://quickstart.clari.net/qs_se/webnews/wed/dp/Uus-defense-young-analysis.RUt1_DO2.html

[RebelYell]

37. I seem to remember

that a trillion dollars disappeared while he was in charge. I don't care if he's Jewish or an Eskimo - he's incompetent or worse.

Edit to correct typo

[geek tragedy]

39. That goes without saying.

This IS the Bush administration we're talking about here. Incompetence is the best one can expect from them.

[stickdog]

43. It goes beyond the Bush Administration.

One needs only to investigate this guy's long and storied career to understand that.

[geek tragedy]

49. Do you have evidence for that?

Please, though, no cites to "journalists" like Christopher Bollyn, who never met a Jew he didn't want to incinerate.

[stickdog]

50. Evidence? Are you now suggesting that this man's clear penchant for

corruption is but a recent phenomenon? Perhaps he was no less than the finest public servant until Dubya corrupted him with his evil corruption ray?

[geek tragedy]

53. Corruption does not equal "dual loyalty."

Please provide evidence that he has dual loyalty between the United States and the State of Israel.

[seemslikeadream]

48. $2.3 trillion

"According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions," Rumsfeld admitted.

$2.3 trillion — that's $8,000 for every man, woman and child in America. To understand how the Pentagon can lose track of trillions, consider the case of one military accountant who tried to find out what happened to a mere $300 million.

"We know it's gone. ," said Jim Minnery, Defense Finance and Accounting Service.

Minnery, a former Marine turned whistle-blower, is risking his job by speaking out for the first time about the millions he noticed were missing from one defense agency's balance sheets. Minnery tried to follow the money trail, even crisscrossing the country looking for records.

"The director looked at me and said 'Why do you care about this stuff?' It took me aback, you know? My supervisor asking me why I care about doing a good job," said Minnery.

He was reassigned and says officials then covered up the problem by just writing it off.

"They have to cover it up," he said. "That's where the corruption comes in. They have to cover up the fact that they can't do the job."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml

[DulceDecorum]

55. WHY IS THIS IN THE 911 FORUM?

Why?
Why?
Why?

[geek tragedy]

56. Because his citizenship is raised by CT'ers to prove

an Israeli link to 9/11.

[DulceDecorum]

57. WRONG FORUM

And so it belongs in
ISRAELI/Palestinian Affairs.

Wrong dungeon.

[geek tragedy]

58. Isn't he Mr. Remote Control Airplanes?

Clearing up a myth about him is of primary interest to CT'ers and their debunkers, not people debating I/P issues.

[Jim Sagle]

61. I saw Madsen on TV once. He had a foot-long handlebar moustache.

What a wacko.

[number6]

63. who cares if he is , ...

"Dov Zackheim is NOT an Israeli citizen."


"Zackheim is a rightwing asshole" (works for me)

[stickdog]

65. Oh, now I get it.

http://www.sysplan.com/Radar/CTS

In the context of 9/11 it also needs to be pointed out that Zakheim was Chief Executive Officer of System Planning Corporation's International Division until President George W. Bush appointed him Undersecretary of Defense and Comptroller of the Pentagon. Not long before Rabbi Zakheim rose to power over the Pentagon's labyrinthine, bottomless accounts, he co-authored an article entitled "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century" which was published by The Project for a New American Century in September 2000, exactly a year before 9/11; in this article, on page 51, it is stated that "the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor"!

But thank God we don't have to worry about the Israeli citizen dual loyalty issue anymore! That one was had me really worried!