Previously on
AA 11: The Flight manifest?!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=26095In Post # 14
RH said:
the bts database provides ontime statistics.
That is the very point and purpose of it.
It is not then reasonable to expect a hijacked aircraft to be on time, is it?
So off we went to the BTS
to see if the aircraft known as Flight 11 was indeed on time
BEFORE IT WAS HIJACKED.
"Departure Statistic(s):Scheduled Departure Time,Actual Departure Time,Scheduled Elapsed Time,Actual Elapsed Time,Departure Delay,Wheels-off Time,Taxi-out Time"
"Airport(s):BOS"
"Airline(s):AA"
"Month(s):September"
"Day(s):11"
"Year(s):2001"
"Airport: Boston, MA-Logan International (BOS)"
Carrier Code, Date (MM/DD/YYYY), Flight Number, Tail Number, Destination Airport, Scheduled Departure Time , Actual Departure Time , Scheduled Elapsed Time (Minutes), Actual Elapsed Time (Minutes), Departure Delay (Minutes), Wheels-off Time , Taxi-out Time (Minutes)
AA, 09/11/2001, 0011, UNKNOW, LAX, 7:45, 0:00, 0374, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 0145, UNKNOW, SJC, 11:00, 0:00, 0380, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 0153, N232AA, ORD, 8:30, 8:29, 0165, 0000, -1, 8:41, 0012
AA, 09/11/2001, 0163, UNKNOW, LAX, 15:30, 0:00, 0377, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 0181, UNKNOW, LAX, 11:00, 0:00, 0380, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 0189, N3BMAA, SEA, 8:45, 8:43, 0373, 0000, -2, 8:56, 0013
AA, 09/11/2001, 0193, UNKNOW, SFO, 15:25, 0:00, 0385, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 0195, UNKNOW, SFO, 9:00, 0:00, 0397, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 0197, UNKNOW, SFO, 17:10, 0:00, 0395, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 0223, UNKNOW, LAX, 17:30, 0:00, 0381, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 0225, UNKNOW, SAN, 18:10, 0:00, 0375, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 0259, UNKNOW, SJC, 18:30, 0:00, 0388, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 0269, N636AA, SJC, 8:00, 7:57, 0388, 0000, -3, 8:09, 0012
AA, 09/11/2001, 0277, UNKNOW, SAN, 9:30, 0:00, 0372, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 0363, UNKNOW, AUS, 17:35, 0:00, 0268, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 0401, UNKNOW, SJU, 12:15, 0:00, 0242, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 0449, UNKNOW, MIA, 8:50, 0:00, 0221, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 0461, N255AA, DFW, 6:40, 6:39, 0251, 0324, -1, 6:50, 0011
AA, 09/11/2001, 0489, UNKNOW, ORD, 10:59, 0:00, 0160, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 0583, UNKNOW, DFW, 11:55, 0:00, 0248, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 0645, N3BLAA, JFK, 6:05, 6:01, 0075, 0062, -4, 6:20, 0019
AA, 09/11/2001, 1011, UNKNOW, ORD, 19:31, 0:00, 0171, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1019, N078AA, SJU, 6:55, 7:00, 0242, 0228, 5, 7:14, 0014
AA, 09/11/2001, 1025, UNKNOW, ORD, 16:16, 0:00, 0174, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1079, UNKNOW, DFW, 15:05, 0:00, 0251, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1101, UNKNOW, ORD, 18:39, 0:00, 0171, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1115, UNKNOW, MIA, 14:55, 0:00, 0199, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1117, UNKNOW, DFW, 19:26, 0:00, 0239, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1121, UNKNOW, DFW, 16:30, 0:00, 0262, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1135, N2CFAA, ORD, 7:00, 6:51, 0170, 0262, -9, 7:19, 0028
AA, 09/11/2001, 1141, UNKNOW, ORD, 14:15, 0:00, 0167, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1285, UNKNOW, DFW, 9:58, 0:00, 0248, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1353, UNKNOW, ORD, 13:01, 0:00, 0163, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1367, UNKNOW, MIA, 18:25, 0:00, 0198, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1547, N321AA, MCO, 7:25, 7:26, 0179, 0175, 1, 7:39, 0013
AA, 09/11/2001, 1555, N3BBAA, ORD, 6:00, 5:54, 0161, 0141, -6, 6:03, 0009
AA, 09/11/2001, 1629, UNKNOW, ORD, 12:20, 0:00, 0160, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1633, UNKNOW, ORD, 18:00, 0:00, 0171, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1663, N521AA, DFW, 7:05, 7:05, 0252, 0000, 0, 7:18, 0013
AA, 09/11/2001, 1711, N061AA, MIA, 6:08, 6:04, 0199, 0177, -4, 6:18, 0014
AA, 09/11/2001, 1757, N3CLAA, ORD, 7:42, 7:37, 0158, 0192, -5, 7:48, 0011
AA, 09/11/2001, 1797, UNKNOW, DFW, 13:27, 0:00, 0249, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1811, N2CBAA, DCA, 6:40, 6:37, 0099, 0088, -3, 6:47, 0010
AA, 09/11/2001, 1813, UNKNOW, DCA, 11:20, 0:00, 0099, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1821, UNKNOW, ORD, 9:19, 0:00, 0166, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1837, UNKNOW, DCA, 9:35, 0:00, 0105, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1849, UNKNOW, ORD, 15:22, 0:00, 0172, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1857, N630AA, DFW, 8:15, 8:14, 0249, 0000, -1, 8:30, 0016
AA, 09/11/2001, 1859, UNKNOW, DCA, 17:00, 0:00, 0105, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1861, UNKNOW, DCA, 14:30, 0:00, 0101, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1887, UNKNOW, DCA, 19:25, 0:00, 0109, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1901, UNKNOW, MIA, 12:00, 0:00, 0196, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 1971, N5EPAA, SJU, 8:20, 8:09, 0246, 0239, -11, 8:34, 0025
AA, 09/11/2001, 1983, N3BRAA, FLL, 6:35, 6:32, 0195, 0185, -3, 6:43, 0011
AA, 09/11/2001, 2027, UNKNOW, DFW, 18:34, 0:00, 0246, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
AA, 09/11/2001, 2055, UNKNOW, DFW, 16:16, 0:00, 0254, 0000, 0, 0:00, 0000
The total number of records: 56
Oh my.
So many entries.
How many of those actually departed Logan
and at what time were they scheduled to do so?
AA, 09/11/2001, 1555, N3BBAA, ORD, 6:00, 5:54, 0161, 0141, -6, 6:03, 0009
AA, 09/11/2001, 0645, N3BLAA, JFK, 6:05, 6:01, 0075, 0062, -4, 6:20, 0019
AA, 09/11/2001, 1711, N061AA, MIA, 6:08, 6:04, 0199, 0177, -4, 6:18, 0014
AA, 09/11/2001, 1983, N3BRAA, FLL, 6:35, 6:32, 0195, 0185, -3, 6:43, 0011
AA, 09/11/2001, 0461, N255AA, DFW, 6:40, 6:39, 0251, 0324, -1, 6:50, 0011
AA, 09/11/2001, 1811, N2CBAA, DCA, 6:40, 6:37, 0099, 0088, -3, 6:47, 0010
AA, 09/11/2001, 1019, N078AA, SJU, 6:55, 7:00, 0242, 0228, 5, 7:14, 0014
AA, 09/11/2001, 1135, N2CFAA, ORD, 7:00, 6:51, 0170, 0262, -9, 7:19, 0028
AA, 09/11/2001, 1663, N521AA, DFW, 7:05, 7:05, 0252, 0000, 0, 7:18, 0013
AA, 09/11/2001, 1547, N321AA, MCO, 7:25, 7:26, 0179, 0175, 1, 7:39, 0013
*Flight 11 pushed back from Gate 32 in Terminal B at 7:40. 911 Commission*
AA, 09/11/2001, 1757, N3CLAA, ORD, 7:42, 7:37, 0158, 0192, -5, 7:48, 0011
AA, 09/11/2001, 0269, N636AA, SJC, 8:00, 7:57, 0388, 0000, -3, 8:09, 0012
AA, 09/11/2001, 1857, N630AA, DFW, 8:15, 8:14, 0249, 0000, -1, 8:30, 0016
AA, 09/11/2001, 1971, N5EPAA, SJU, 8:20, 8:09, 0246, 0239, -11, 8:34, 0025
AA, 09/11/2001, 0153, N232AA, ORD, 8:30, 8:29, 0165, 0000, -1, 8:41, 0012
AA, 09/11/2001, 0189, N3BMAA, SEA, 8:45, 8:43, 0373, 0000, -2, 8:56, 0013
Oh, dear,
where, oh, WHERE, is Flight 11?
I know I saw it somwehere up there
(once the BTS were alerted and compelled to include a mention.)
Ah, there it is,
right on top where you can't miss it.
Let us focus on Flight 11.
Results of Searching Detailed Statistics
"Departure Statistic(s):Scheduled Departure Time,Actual Departure Time,Scheduled Elapsed Time,Actual Elapsed Time,Departure Delay,Wheels-off Time,Taxi-out Time"
"Airport(s):BOS"
"Airline(s):AA"
"Month(s):September"
"Day(s):11"
"Year(s):2001"
"Airport: Boston, MA-Logan International (BOS)"
AiIRPORT: BOS
Airline(s): AA
Month(s):September
Day(s):11
Year(s):2001
Airport: LAX
Carrier Code, AA,
Date (MM/DD/YYYY), 09/11/2001,
Flight Number, 0011,
Tail Number, UNKNOW,
Destination Airport, LAX,
Scheduled Departure Time , 7:45,
Actual Departure Time , 0:00,
Scheduled Elapsed Time (Minutes), 0374,
Actual Elapsed Time (Minutes), 0000,
Departure Delay (Minutes), 0,
Wheels-off Time , 0:00,
Taxi-out Time (Minutes) 0000
Which brings us directly to
Post #23
DulceDecorum asks:
Since the plane was unable to send the ACARS data to the BTS,
which is something that is highly computerized and happens automatically,
then how the bloody blazes did the plane manage to send the airline passenger manifest data?
Post #39
DulceDecorum says:
"But the onlt credible source for such information is the airline passenger list, and the only credible source for obtaining this information is the airline itself, or authorities and media to which the airline makes it available."
-- Gerard Holmgren
Let us review the manner in which passenger lists are generated.
A flight is scheduled.
People buy tickets.
People board the plane.
The doors are closed.
All people aboard the plane are counted, identified, and accounted for.
This includes crew, and non-ticketed personnel.
A list of persons aboard the plane is recorded as the official passenger manifest.
At some point after the flight pushes back from the gate,
the list is sent via ACARS to the airline HQ and probably also the BTS.
HOW did Flight 11 or Flight 77 achieve a passenger manifest?
The flight was NOT scheduled.
The flight has no wheels off time.
And now some excerpts from the 911 Commission Report.
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.ht... 4. Flight 11 pushed back from Gate 32 in Terminal B at 7:40. See AAL response to the Commission's February 3, 2004, requests, Mar. 15, 2004.
9. See TSA report, "Selectee Status of September 11th Hijackers," undated. For boarding and seating information, see AAL record, SABRE information on Flight 11, Sept. 11, 2001.These boarding times from the American system are approximate only; for Flight 11, they indicated that some passengers "boarded" after the aircraft had pushed back from the gate. See AAL response to the Commission's February 3, 2004, requests, Mar. 15, 2004.
Care to explain
HOW
one boards an aircraft that has already pushed back from the gate?
Did Scotty beam them up?
Summary:
HOW did the plane manage to send the airline passenger manifest data, when it was obviously unable to send ANY other data via ACARS?
HOW does ANYONE board an aircraft that has already pushed back from the gate?