Should the donkey be retired?

[sweetheart]

Poll question: Should the donkey be retired?

From a 2004 marketing POV, the donkey is a very poorly chosen
symbol for a party that intends to win. It comes from an 1874
cartoon, back when people used to have farms and donkeys,
as it was a stubborn beast of burden.

In our modern age, logo's are symbolic, and perhaps a Bear,
and Eagle or a Lion might serve better.

don·key :n. pl. don·keys
The domesticated ass (Equus asinus).
Slang. An obstinate person.
Slang. A stupid person.

[THUNDER HANDS]

1. it wasn't done for marketing

it was based off of a political cartoon from like a thousand years ago. It's the symbol of the party whether we like it or not.

Personally, i would have prefered the elephant.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. the elephant is a klutz and destroys everything in it's way....

a donkey is a useful animal that helps you get things done...

[THUNDER HANDS]

11. actually elephants are extremely intelligent animals

who are smarter than dogs and almost as smart as dolphins

They are very caring and loving animals and are mysterious in many ways.

I think they're too beautiful to be the GOP symbol. They should have a snake or a slug or something.

[progdonkey]

74. the Chimp Party

The Republicans should be the Chimp party. Not only is their leader a dead-ringer for an ugly chimp, but their actions are remarkably chimp-like: instead of responding to stress with careful, reasoned deliberation, they bare their teeth and throw their shit on everything. Using a chimp has an extra side-benefit as well: the Republicans don't believe in Evolution, so likening them to chimps at every turn would drive them insane. (You know and I know that chimps are very intelligent--just shy of humans, shockingly;-)--but the Republicans don't believe that.) Maybe the Republicans will do what the Democrats did and embrace a negatively-intended symbol, and it will be harder for them to say chimps are too undignified to be our ancestors (hello Evolution!).

You're right; elephants are far to intelligent and noble to be representative of the Chimp Party.

[sweetheart]

5. Changing it would show we're serious

If you want to message to voters a serious retrenchment intent on
winning, one of the best ways is to re-brand from old racist days.

A bear would eat an elephant, and is a natural animal from the american
wilderness.

I think a bear would serve the new party better, as one that defends
its young ferosciously, and is not to be screwed with.

A fair amount of political capital is lost on a bad brand, IMO.

[THUNDER HANDS]

13. dude

The Bear was the symbol of Communism and Russia.

[HFishbine]

15. Except that communist Russia

Was symbolized by the bear. You're on the right track, but maybe the bear is not such a good idea.

[sweetheart]

19. right, good one

Ok, rattlesnake... someone just mentioned bobcat... yes.

Mountain lion?

[Hobarticus]

2. The least of our worries.... n/t

[sweetheart]

7. Dead wrong, mate

They ran a campiagn without ANY substance whatsoever, just based on
attacks and fraud. They ran an "image" campaign, and we wanted to
talk about substance the whole time... and lost by it.

Perhaps revamping our "image" and "style" approach is exactly what
is in order.

[Hobarticus]

21. Respectfully disagree, mate

You're exactly right, they ran a shallow campaign that ran on shallow policies, but it was glossed over with an image of "values" and "morality". Their image became their message. Didn't matter to you and I and millions of other people who knew better...3% more of them bought into it.

Our message has to become our image. A snappy new logo ain't changing that.

[Placebo]

4. Well what about an Elephant...

screams political success? :shrug:

[foo_bar]

8. the trunk

[sweetheart]

10. At least it isn't a jackass

I love elephants personally. They are cool animals, live long, and
are wise. Why must we have the shit animal between the two?

Honestly, if you had a choice to ride an elephant or a jackass,
which would you pick?

[Lenape85]

12. A Republican is like an elephant

It gets to be really old, it never mates, and it takes a long time to clean up their shit after they are through

[Placebo]

16. But elephants aren't even an AMERICAN animal!

They're about as foreign as you can get.

[sweetheart]

25. Nor is the donkey

It is imported as well. A mountain lion is native. A buffalo is
native.... what's wrong with a native species to make the very
contrast you mention.

[Mr_Spock]

6. A machine gun

it has a stronger appearance :D

[killbotfactory]

9. We should change it to a hawk

attacking a snake.

Or something really disgustingly macho.

[txindy]

33. What about an eagle?

:shrug: Yes, it's being used by the gov't. OUR gov't. We need to emphasize the 'we' in "We the People."

[msongs]

50. It is an American symbol (like it or not) and would get all the

repubs HOWLING with indignation LOL

Msongs
dean obama 2008
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[txindy]

52. And this is a bad thing?

LOL! :evilgrin:

[sweetheart]

14. I think it should be a Bear

We need to re-cast this party as lethal, native to north america,
and a fighter that defends its own.

[faithfulcitizen]

26. people may think: "stock market", maybe a bull is better :) nt

[davepc]

58. yeah the symbol of the Soviet Union

That'll defuse the accusations of socialist/communist!

[TroglodyteScholar]

17. how about a bobcat (eom)

[HFishbine]

18. I like the lion

Proud, protective, can be drawn fiercely or friendly, works better as a costume than a donkey or an elephant, we could have a contest across the country to name him.

[sweetheart]

22. Lion is the king of the beasts

I agree that it is an excellent image.

It could be a way to positively re-engage the party in a move to
re-group and change... name that lion!

[HFishbine]

31. Here's my name-the-lion nomination

Southpaw.

[sweetheart]

44. nomination for lion name:

Liberty

[pinniped]

20. Need to change it to a damm honey badger.

Mellivora capensis, a real fighter.



Oh, does it have to be an American species? I'll think of something else....

[foo_bar]

23. I think we found our DU mascot

no wait, it's "Oscar".

[BurtWorm]

24. How about coopting the fish?

That'll confuse the bastids! ;)

[sweetheart]

28. The salmon of liberalism!

I like it. :-)

[Straight Shooter]

27. Keep the donkey. change the elephant to a hyena. eom

[AntiCoup2K4]

29. Until the DLC is destroyed, it might as well be an elephant...

...with fake donkey ears.

[sweetheart]

30. you get the implied discussion

But it appears that 4:1, most folks believe the status quo is the
way forward. I wonder how many seats have to be lost before people
will be willing to adopt the serious reform.

[Starlight]

64. You think changing the mascot = "serious reform"?!!!

I think you need to lay off the crack pipe! :eyes:

[sweetheart]

80. Wholistic change

I think that this thread demonstrates something. By a 4:1, margin,
DU posters think that the symbol is working fine. I suggest by
reflection, that those same folks, think the party machine is
working fine-enough, and that no major reforms are needed.

In a serious re-branding, we change management, strategy, platform
and organization. It does not mean firing people, but reorganizing.
Such a thing, combined with a snappy symbol, would be quite
a powerful statement.

Bottom line, i see the following things as jackass problems, using
the secondary definitions of jackass: the DLC's push to become more
republican, the failure to publically end any link with dixicrat
racism, and stand absolutely for minority equality, the failure to
realize that in our modern world, substance and symbols are combined.

We just lost an election where style and symbols were used to defeat
wisdom and goodwill (ours). Yet, the democratic marketeers are
pursuing an extinct donkey's ongoing strategy of not addressing
the style and symbols. So, in response to your serious reform
statement, i say that serious reform cannot be achieved without
changing root and branch the logo and the absolute defense of human
equality and social justice.

PS. I like a joint now and again, but i don't smoke crack.

[The Revolution]

32. The Wolf! The Wolf!

We should adopt the symbol the repubs tried to use in their stupid ad. I at least want to create a sub-party with the wolf as its mascot!

Wolves are pack hunters that can take down large prey by working together, using strategy and teamwork instead of simply brute force. We can take the elephant down!

[jjanpundt]

53. I agree! The wolf ! They were nearly hunted

to extinction and have made quite a comeback. Plus they're intelligent, loyal to their mates and pack. And they run free!

[sweetheart]

54. "Wolf in sheeps clothing"

Marketing this one could be a bit touchy with recovering-fundies.

As much as i love the magesty of wolves, they are indeed viewed with
fear by people who live near living ones, as indeed, they can kill
livestock and even a human, with their honed hunting skills... and
hence why they are mentioned in the bible as those arch-predators
who prey on the sheep flock.

After reviewing the thread, i'm inclined towards:

Mountain Lion, Eagle, Moose and Buffalo

All of them are native species to the America's. All of them have
so much more dignity than a jackass, and all of them are powerful
warrior creatures not to be screwed with.

What a powerful branding message it would be, to move on from the
19th century of the slavery party.

[GRLMGC]

34. A chupacabra

who cares? Keep the fucking donkey. I like it

[meow2u3]

35. Change the donkey to a cougar

Cougars are effective fighters native to North America. Donkeys come from the Middle East and elephants are native to Africa and South Asia.

[hatrack]

36. Well, it hasn't kicked much lately

Except, perhaps, the bucket.

[Lorien]

37. An animal that is Native to America

Bobcat, wolf, whitetail deer, elk, moose...neither elephants nor donkeys are American. The symbols just don't make sense!

[Edmond Dantes]

38. Ditch the jackass for the EAGLE

It worked for TransAir, didn't it?

[lady raven]

39. eagle

I like the eagle best. I think the lion is good too.

Am I correct in my memory that the donkey is NOT an "official" symbol? I seem to remember reading that the GOP elephant is the only one of the two that is official.

[sweetheart]

42. here's the official propaganda

Keep in mind, the untold story that the whole time this symbol was
innovated, that the party was the white racist party. I think
retiring the symbol is worth considering on that basis alone.

Without further adue, the leaders who've screwed up 3 elections
in a row, telling us how it is:

http://www.democrats.org/about/donkey.html

[foo_bar]

49. Adlai Stevenson quote within

"The elephant has a thick skin, a head full of ivory, and as everyone who has seen a circus parade knows, proceeds best by grasping the tail of its predecessor."

[The Flaming Red Head]

40. Jesus rode around on an ass

not an elephant. For whatever that's worth.


Edited to say I hope the newly elected acceptable-morals-religious review board doesn't put me in the town stocks for saying that. I usually say much worse things.

[MattG]

41. Dang that's what I was gonna say

We could just simply tell the Fundy Christians that Mary went to Bethlehem on a donkey, not an elephant, or a hummer (Arnold Joke)

[sweetheart]

43. I sit on MY ass...

When i'm at the computer, but it hardly inspires me to use it as
a logo. ;-)

[erniesam]

55. for what its worth,

Davidic king-elects customarily rode into Jerusalem and to their subsequent coronation on a donkey.

[UdoKier]

45. I vote for a bull.

Strength, and connotes economic prosperity.

[sweetheart]

48. Do you have a breed in mind? or a moose?

I was just looking about at breeds, and perhaps a cross with a
buffalo and a brahma bull.... or a bull moose.

It seems that a good portion of internet photo's of bulls are from
rodeos, a nice wholesome american image, indeed.

[antigone382]

46. I love the donkey. But if you must change it, buffaloes kick ass.

They're the ultimate American symbol. Or maybe a bad-ass wild horse. Yeah, I know, horses aren't necessarily indigenous to America, but if you think about it, both horses and donkeys originated from the Equus species that lived on this continent before they were wiped out by humans. And so did mastodons, which were the ancestors of elephants.

Both could be thought of as American animals.

Then again, maybe we should keep the donkey. After all, when you want to talk about someone who doesn't take any shit from anybody, you don't say "bad-elephant."

You say "bad ass." :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[msongs]

51. Sure they were nearly extinct but are coming back....like the DEMS LOL

[iwantmycountryback]

47. Wolves

Couldn't help it LOL. But seriously. I like a bull, a very strong and powerful animal. Or a hawk, good vision, good predator.

[Robert Oak]

56. Whale, sea lion, other endangered species n/t

[Only Me]

57. I like the Donkey.But the White Dove a symbol of peace/unity is nice. nt

[Qanisqineq]

59. I like the bison

it's native to North America, it's not wussy.

[Citizen Kang]

60. I was gonna say the bison too...

but for a different reason. It is easy to kill and its almost extinct. Just like Democrats.

JOKING!!!!! Please don't flame.

But seriously, if we change the moniker from the Donkey we just give them more ammo to paint us with "flip floppers" and "running from your past and the truth" and "you can change your stripes, but you can't change who you are".

What we need is a modern day Thomas Nast to give the Party a new symbol, then we can run with it.

[Qanisqineq]

63. LOL, I get the joke!

I'm a little partial to the bison, I suppose, since I know people that raise them.

I definitely see your point on the flip-flopper thing. Yep, I can hear it now, Rush saying the same things you said above. Ugh!!

[arewenotdemo]

61. They hate us for our ass?

[Pierre Trudeau]

62. mountain lion

You think a jackass is bad, my country's national animal is the beaver. :P

But if you're going to change it, definitely consider the mountain lion or cougar.

In opposition to the elephant, it projects an image of speed, ferocity, poise and dexterity.

[Swamp Rat]

65. Kittens, puppies and bunnywabbits

:)

[davepc]

68. perfect summary of our election tactics!

;)

[Morning Dew]

66. Keep the donkey, animate it and have Eddie Murphy do the voice

and that will fix it all.

;)

[ibegurpard]

67. Switching the "symbol"

would be a completely transparent attempt at a "makeover" that people would look at as pandering.

[sweetheart]

78. But what if the makeover was genuine

Provided voter fraud is not proven in the next few weeks, the
democratic party is fast becoming extinct, and i mention the
symbol, as i fully mean the depth of change behind the action
as well as the surface appearance. It means to me, that the
Dixicrats, the racism, and the DLC faux-republicanism are over
and that the democrats are out to win.

If we're just changing the symbol, i agree with you, but if
we do achieve a root and branch re-grassrootization of the
party, the vigourous change really should be messaged somehow
and that is what branding is all about.

[demokatgurrl]

69. Keep the donkey so we can keep the slogan:

Who ever heard of a nice piece of elephant?

[Pepperbelly]

70. or the ever good, "I'll kiss your elephant if you kiss my ass." nt

[LiberalPersona]

71. I like the donkey

I'm happy with that as my symbol. More sophisticated than the elephant at least.

[theHandpuppet]

72. How About A Species Native To North America

The American Mountain Lion (no royal African lions)
The Buffalo
The Wolverine
The Grey Wolf
The Rattlesnake (Don't Tread On Me!)
The Alligator
The majestic American Elk
or an introduced animal such as the mustang?

No bears (Russian symbol), and the Bald Eagle is already too overused. Moose are too goofy-looking. I suppose you could substitute a powerful plow horse for the donkey, the former a symbol which resonates with our pioneering past and with rural America (and with folks who drink Budweiser, I guess). ;)

[fujiyama]

73. I'm laughing hysterically

It's almost insanity. I feel as though the party is completely falling apart...Maybe it's the type of laughter you have when you know you're actually hurting.

We're now trying to rebrand ourselves...That too after I read an article where three decent senators are thinking of leaving because they don't feel they can even accomplish anything on the federal level.

As for the animals you listed, I like lions...but people might find it kinda strange for the party to switch symbols. It might almost seem like an obvious ploy.

[catbert836]

75. Change to some kind of big cat

A lion would be good.

[gordianot]

76. No, we need to turn him around for a better perspective.

Maybe hire the donkey from Shrek. Wonder if Eddie Murphy is a Democrat?

Now that I think about it that would be almost as good as Joe Camel.

[arewenotdemo]

77. The Cleveland Browns retired the Brownie (elf) nearly 40 years ago

and haven't tasted a championship since.

Retiring the donkey would be a huge mistake.

[sweetheart]

79. Didn't a new football team with a new logo win

the superbowl recently?.. a catchy jaguar or something?

Perhaps the cleveland browns have other problems deeper than
their logo... plus, political parties change representation
all the time, and to reverse what could easily be a fatal
decline in the next election, i think radical measure may
be in order.

Perhaps an "elf" would be better. Then cleveland can take
the jackass as their logo, and the democrats can win the
superbowl! :-)

[arewenotdemo]

81. well, if you're not yanking my chain for a good time...

the Brownie would make a great Demo Party symbol.

Football tucked away translates to "We won't fumble with your Social Security".

Cocky pose could be construed as "We know we're good and you Pukes will soon".

With the Brownie we could go head-to-head homophobe with the Pukes and still pull the gay vote.

And while one might expect him to be yellow, in most incarnations he's very white.

On the short side: we do lose PA.

http://nflhistory.net/shared/personalities.asp?Team=7

[Renew Deal]

82. A bear? lol

They would call us commies in a second. I like the donkey and what it symbolizes.