Why did Kerry and the DNC lie to us?

[leftofthedial]

Kerry said he'd fight until every last vote was counted. That was a lie.

Kerry said he voted to give the little bushturd Iraq War Powers because Saddam was a threat. Kerry is either stupid or a liar (or both I suppose).

There may be more, but these are two whoppers that are really bugging me.

[leftofthedial]

1. well I guess that answers that question.

[gordianot]

2. Dem bones?

[DemBones DemBones]

17. No, I'm still using my original name.

But I do want to know why Kerry lied to us. Don't you?

[UpsideDownFlag]

3. fuh. lame. bait.

stop, please. it was bad enough when you kept bringing up how much bush lost the popular vote by on tuesday/wednesday last week. say something positive, for a change.

[leftofthedial]

4. I was talking about the little bushturd losing the popular vote?

That would hardly put me in exclusive company around here, although that hasn't been my main interest. I don't think I "kept bringing up" any such thing.

As for the "Bait" comment, one man's bait is another man's sushi.

I feel I have been misled by the Dems. I want to know why.

[UpsideDownFlag]

5. okay.

i hope you find some answers.

[T Town Jake]

16. Jibby?...say it ain't so!

...you had a cool user name. Why'd you decide to ditch it? (Just curious)

[LibertyorDeath]

22. Because of his infamous dead cat thread

Skinned dead cats lots of them nice clear pics.
Truly sickening.

You can run but you can't hide Jibby

[UpsideDownFlag]

25. i changed it b/c early on, everyone gave me crap about it.

and UpsideDownFlag seems more appropriate, given the circumstances.

and re: the kitty thread- i've made no secret of the fact that i loathe kitty threads. I just went to far in an attempt to play a holloween prank on the kitty people, and i apologized for it. I'm not running, or hiding, either.

[UpsideDownFlag]

26. they were just rugs. from a taxidermists site. even the site owner..

said she loved cats and that they were only for educational purposes

[mzmolly]

6. Well then be glad he didn't win.

Cheers!

I don't think Kerry anticipated losing by almost 4 million votes, you?

And, in case you weren't aware, votes are STILL being counted. :hi:

[leftofthedial]

11. My profound hope is that when the votes are counted and

when the fraud I believe occurred is exposed, that Kerry will have won.

I'm not optimistic about it. Odds are probably about 999,999 - 1.

The more I think about Kerry's Nov 3 concession, the more I wonder just what Kerry *did* expect.

[cheshire]

7. Do you realize Arni is calling you a girlie man. Blaming is not helping.

[leftofthedial]

10. The Gropinator's opinion does not interest me.

did Kerry lie to us Dems?

I'm having a very difficult time making sense of Kerry's behavior since the election.

And in retrospect, the prevailing Democratic position on Iraq has never been all that clear.

I f we don't identify our mistakes and analyze them honestly, we'll keep repeating them as we have done since 1996, when, in effect, we lost Congress.

[Politicub]

8. LOL

You waited long enough to post this concern. Good luck on finding answers that will satisfy you.

[leftofthedial]

9. I posted on this topic earlier, but

wanted the immediate shock and anger to subside. Still no answers.

Does that mean no one agrees we were lied to?

[RinaJ]

12. I don't

They're still counting votes.

I have no problem believing that the Rethugs were/are more than capable of tampering with voting. But, IMO the most you'd be able to prove with the BBV is that someone tampered with the votes. It would take someone coming forward from the company and swearing up and down that they took X amount of votes from Kerry or added Y amount of votes for Bush to actually overturn the results in either Ohio or Florida. And I don't see that happening. Because otherwise, you'd never know how many votes were actually cast for Kerry or for Bush. I figured that out before Kerry conceded. Call me a freeper, a "moderate", whatever, I just don't have a problem with his concession.

[leftofthedial]

14. still counting votes has nothing to do with the question

I didn't ask if the election is official yet.

No matter how we parse the vote fraud issue, Kerry stated on Nov 3 at 9:00 (my time) that he would fight until the last vote was counted. Then at 11:00 (my time) he conceded. As you said yourself, here on Nov 8, the votes are still being counted. Why did Kerry lie, or flip flop or whatever you want to call it?

[RinaJ]

27. And from what I can tell, the lawyers are still there while they are

counting.

What's your point? The numbers aren't there for him to win regardless of the outcome of the voting, so he conceded. But he's still making sure every vote is counted, even if it won't be in his favor.

[ohioan]

13. Do you assume because YOU don't see it, it's not happening?

[leftofthedial]

15. I don't understand your question.

I DID hear Kerry promise he would fight until the last vote was counted and then two hours later concede--WHILE VOTES WERE STILL BEING COUNTED. It is 6 days later and votes are STILL being counted, but Kerry quit fighting.

Are you implying that Kerry is somehow still fighting behind the scenes? There is no sign of that from him or from anyone else. In fact, the continued counting and what little progress has been made on the vote fraud issue has been DESPITE, not because of, the DNC and the Kerry campaign from what I can tell.

[uhhuh]

18. I don't know if they did

And neither do you.

It doesn't matter. We have to go out and win this battle for ourselves. I don't care if Kerry and the DNC do the first thing about these things. I don't need a savior. I am going to do my part to restore democracy to this country, and I'll take the help where I find it. If Kerry and other Dems are on board, great! If not, it won't slow me down one bit.

We are the answer. We will have to do what we can, whether we have Kerry or other Dems leaders active in this won't change what needs to be done, and I'm not going to waste a single second worrying about what is going on inside their heads. If they turn on us, or actively thwart efforts to save our country, then they're next. Until I see what Kerry and the other Dem leaders are doing, I'm going to assume they're on our side. If they're not, well, I guess we'll have to take them down too.

The good fight isn't usually the easy one. We have to press on no matter what the terrain looks like.

Thinking about what the DNC and Kerry are up to is distracting. I'm sure a pressrelease will come out eventually. If not, so what. I don't care. If Kerry wants help, he can ask. If not, I'm revved up for the challenges ahead without him.

Back to work....

[NightOwwl]

19. One of his statements caught my ear.

He said, "I guarantee all the votes will be counted. I can't guarantee the outcome will change, but I guarantee all votes will be counted."

Sounds like he might be trying to tell us something without coming right out and saying it.

[ComerPerro]

20. Yeah, lets blame Kerry for Iraq

because, he was one Senator out of 100, and he voted to give Bush the authority to go to the UN and take military action if necessary.

But lets not blame Bush, who lied about WMD, used hand-picked intelligence that he knew was false, accused people who questioned him of being anti-American, lied to the Congress, the USA, and the UN, and pre-emptively started a war without any kind of plan for peace.

Yeah, its Kerry's fault.

[leftofthedial]

28. I'm not blaming Kerry for Iraq beyond whatever share of blame he

might deserve.

No one with a shred of grey matter should have believed that Iraq or Saddam was a threat, or that they had WMDs or that they had any involvement in 9-11. We knew that was all bullshit long before the war powers crap came to the Senate.

With anywhere from 40 to 80 percent of Murkans opposing the war at various times, why haven't the Dems (and why did Kerry never) advocate peace. They've always been "soft" advocates and supporters of the war.

Whether you agree with their positions or not, this hurt us and hurt us badly in the campaign. Even KKKarl Rove (may his genitals rot away painfully) said that Kerry voting for the war powers and then against the $87 billion was the "gift that kept on giving" during the campaign.

If we don't learn from our mistakes, we'll keep repeating them. We've already lost three elections in a row.

[ComerPerro]

30. Well, ok, Kerry should have been more careful

Republicans knew that they could sucker Democrats with votes. They always do it. In September the House passed a resolution honoring the 9/11 victims that also praised Bush. Any Democrats who voted agasint it would have been labled unpatriotic and insensitive.

They have been using legislation to manipulate the public for years.

The IWR was one of these, as was the $87 billion. Dems who voted against either would have been accused of not caring about our country's security. It didn't matter that Kerry voted to authorize Bush to go to the UN. If he hadn't, we would be hearing how Kerry voted against the war, is soft on security, and how he loves Saddam.

But, Kerry should have done things differently. He should have pointed out that Bush's "plan" was for Saddam to remain in power (assuming he was inspected and had now WMD, as it turns out he did not). He should have reminded the public that Bush used bullshit, cherry-picked intelligence while inisiting "trust me, you don't have access to the same intel that I do". And he definately should have gone more on the attack with his "87 billion" soundbyte. He should have made it perfectly clear that every single Republican in the Senate voted against the 87 billion, and Bush even threatened to veto it, when it was first brought for vote.

But, alas, he did not.

[HFishbine]

35. Fact check

"he was one Senator out of 100, and he voted to give Bush the authority to go to the UN and take military action if necessary."

Actually, Kerry was one out of 77 who voted for the Iraq war resolution. We had one who voted against it running in the primaries, but he didn't make it very far.

[Baja Margie]

21. Yes,

Kerry did give Bush his vote, along with everyone else. His understanding was that Bush was going to go to the UN, which of course, as we all know, he did not. Keep in mind that our "Intelligence" was scetchy at best. Even in interviews after his presidency, Clinton admitted that noone really knew if the 1998 air strikes took out the WMD's and Chemicals. No one could back into Iraq to inspect, remember? Apparently, those air strikes were successful, but prior to 911 and after, noone really knew.

And, think back to 911, we were attacked ! Everyone just about, went along with the plan and with the Patriot Act. If I remember correctly, Kerry and others wanted to or thought they could make changes to the Patriot Act, and then of course, found out they could
not. If I'm not exact on the chronology, someone correct me.

On Kerry's concession, I don't know. We were all stunned. But right now it seems like a real enigma. I might be going on blindfaith here, but I'm not going to panic, and I am taking Elizabeth Edward's message to heart.

Remember that old Rolling Stones song....dont ya panic, don't ya panic, give it one more try.

One more try, baby.

[RapidCreek]

23. And, think back to 911, we were attacked ! Everyone just about, went along

Tell me....what's the difference between a leader and a follower?

RC

[sendero]

24. Sometimes my kids...

.... would say I lied after I said we'd do something and we ran out of time, thought better of, etc.

I've tried to explain to them that a lie is when you know one thing and say another, or when you say you are going to do something when you really have no intention of doing it and you know it.

These are not examples of lies. They might be examples of flip-flops or some other lack of character, but lies is a real stretch.

[MsTryska]

29. Well.....

I can't answer question #1, and i aslso don't believe he lied either. i think he did the right thing by conceding, considering the numbers involved (not taking into account what's come to light in these later analyses). to me crying over that is like crying over spilled milk.


the second question can be answered by reading his speech to the senate, prior to casting his vote to authorize use of force in iraq.

happy reading:

http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/kerry-iraq.html

[leftofthedial]

32. thanks for the link

if widespread fraud is found, or if a miracle occurs and the final vote shows Kerry won Ohio or florida (and thus the election), will you still think he did the right thing?

[MsTryska]

34. At the time, yeah. Hindsight is 20/20.

They said they wouldn't give up until the last vote is counted.



they did a quick and dirty mathematical analysis to realize that even if all the provisional votes were counted, he still wouldn't have enough to get OH's ev.


Conceding was the right thing to do.

[bemildred]

31. We are not the first bunch of Rubes to be manipulated by politicians. nt

[TXvote]

33. I feel lied to

John Edwards said "We have waited four years. We can wait a few more days." regarding counting the vote. Then, just hours later, Kerry conceded the race. Unless this is some super secret progressive covert operation to count the vote in peace and suddenly release the real numbers before the electoral vote, then yipee! Otherwise, show me the leadership! I feel lied to.