It's not just about Dean, it's about us

[cali]

We are the grassroots, and there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions more of us out there who aren't members of DU. We do the phone banking, donate money, trudge from door to door with campaign literature, and fulfill many more of the tasks essential to getting dems in office. Many grassroots dems support Governor Dean.

The coming days will tell us whether the party values not just our labor, but our voices and ideas. One of the reasons Dean garnered a vocal and loyal following was due to the 'open source' nature of his campaign; a high tech way of saying they listened and responded to their supporters. If, as it looks there's going to be, an onslaught of opposition to Dean from the power brokers in D.C., I, for one, will feel like I've been sent the following message: Shut up. We know better. We want your labor, not your voice.

If that's true, then what? I guess I'll stick with the party, but I sure won't have much hope left for meaningful reform.

[janx]

1. Yep. This decision will be very telling.

Luckily, the people who get to vote on it aren't generally D.C. insiders. You can bet they will be pressured.

[StephanieMarie]

2. When will they actually decide?

I'm looking for a chairman who stands for something, and isn't afraid to get in people's faces.

[cali]

3. Feb. 12 n/t

[Thurgood Marshall]

4. The Party

Cali, don't you then get to the question of is it better to try to reform the party or abandon the party?

I agree with you on Dean, he should head the DNC. If we instead end up with some Clintonite shill, when does supporting the party (and supporting election losses) become too much of a burden?

[cali]

5. I don't know.

It's tempting to abandon the party, and if I didn't think that weakening the democratic party wouldn't strengthen the repubs, I would. I realize that's pretty weak logic, and obviously I don't mean me individually, I mean a mass exodus.

[Cheswick2.0]

6. Cali , I recognize what you are saying

I have felt that way and still do.
Four years ago you could not have found a more loyal democrat than me. In fact I have always, including this year, voted straight D ticket. I am not atracted to any of the third parties, I don't like their rhetoric and I don't agree with their choice of helping Bush win to teach the democrats a lesson. We could have had a President Gore.
But I am disgusted with the desire of the entrenched party elite to hold onto thier own personal bits of power than help the party become the majority party again.

They are not thinking of us, or what is good for the country. They are thinking of themselves and personal ambition. Some don't even have any particular democratic ideological leanings. They are democrats because that is what wins where they started out.

[txaslftist]

34. Cheswick, you're rock solid democratic stuff...

Dean SHOULD get it.

If he doesn't, though, that will clear up all those pesky questions about his eligibility for a 2008 run. Every cloud has a silver lining. If we have to take the party over from the outside (I mean in the primaries) rather than from the inside (in the elitist committees and boards), that's what we have to do.

You and I aren't leaving, though. KEEP UP THE FIGHT.

[Thurgood Marshall]

7. Best options...

I don't know if it is tempting...after supporting Dean in the primaries, I voted for Kerry as the "best option" to unseating Bush, although he didn't have much appeal for me.

If the DNC doesn't make a significant change, I can't see it as anything but more of the same. I don't want to weaken the Democratic Party either, but what good is the "best alternative" as a candidate if that alternative can't make election issues moot.

The groundswell is there, the DNC just has to ride it.

[Walt Starr]

24. Abandon the party immediately if Dean doesn't get the chair

If thousands upon thousands of activist Democrats immediately abandon the party, it sends two messages.

1) To Dr. Dean, the time has come for a new Progressive Party.

2) To the powerful elitists controlling the democratic Party, "We're coming after YOU!"

Reform from within will be impossible if the eleite continue to hold control.

[txaslftist]

33. To the Republicans and the Undecided:

YOU WIN!

[greenohio]

8. There are many grassroots Dems who don't care

or don't support Dean. I'm not against Dean getting it, but I think using DU as a basis for whether the majority of grassroots support Dean for chair is inaccurate.

[cali]

9. According to what I've read

a significant number of those voting on the DNC chair, support Dean, and they are most certainly grassroots. The question is will they be able to resist the pressure of Washington insiders.

[Thurgood Marshall]

10. Grassroots

GreenOhio,

In terms of the DNC, I think I'm trying to make the issue that it's not about supporting Dean's viability as a political candidate, but his ability to generate grassroots support. When the Democrats in charge of the party turned away from Dean in the primaries, a lot of the energy he generated at colleges and with internet users was lost.

Face it, in the current election environment, small Democratic majorities won't be legitimized and it's an uphill battle. We have to win by large margins.

It's not whether those considering themselves grassroot support Dean, it's all about how much grassroot support of all kinds he can generate. He has already shown he can do it in areas where McAuliffe (sp.) failed miserably.

The message doesn't have to be moved to the center or changed. It has to be taken to those who will listen. But then you can't turn your back on them in favor of same old politics later...

[Pastiche423]

13. Where are those "many grassroots Dems who don't care or support Dean"?

They aren't here in Oregon.

US Democrat - Oregon are overwhelming for Dean. And very few of them (that I know of) are DUers.

[greenohio]

22. Didn't have to wait long on that one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1490434&mesg_id=1490434

[Cha]

11. And Dean will be the second to

say it's not about him!

[welshTerrier2]

12. nicely said ...

and it's not just reform on choosing a reformer like Dean, it's reform on the platform itself and the platform process ...

selecting a Chairman who has expressed strong support for the war in Iraq is about as clear a message as could possibly be sent ...

it is totally unacceptable ... the Party may once again be in denial ... they may believe they can sell anything by offering a few crumbs ...

not this time ... not ever again ... be careful Democrats ... the money is on the line ...

[Gay Ranger]

14. Here is what has been bothering me...

Why are we hoping against against hope for someone to lead us out of our funk? Regardless of who has the chair, it is basically us who make up the party. The Party can try to push someone on us, but in the end, we choose who WE want when election time comes around. Let us not be so easily swayed next time. Forget about who is deemed, "electable."
Electable came in 3 million votes short last time.

I am just a newbie here, but I think this needs to be said.

[cali]

15. The DNC is important

It can develop strategy that helps dems get elected. It raises money that's essential to fund dems. I don't look to Dean or anyone else to provide a magic fix to the party, but I do think we need leadership that connects to, and understands, the grassroots. I think we need someone who speaks clearly and with conviction about democratic issues and values.

And btw, welcome.

[Gay Ranger]

18. I wholeheartedly agree...

but lately they have been more about trying to appease the right leaners that to establish themselves as a viable alternative.

[KittyWampus]

16. Many Grassroots Democrats Do NOT Support Dean

and I am really sick of the assumption we all are.

[Adelante]

17. Many who DID not support him

for president do see him as the most worthy candidate for DNC Chair. I do and a lot of people I know do. I think what we want is a fighter more than anything. Dean has surely shown he will fight.

[KittyWampus]

20. I Personally Don't Want A "Fighter". The Chair Of An Organization Is

supposed to be the diplomate not warrior.

And I question the wisdom of having someone high profile as Chair.

Personally, I endorse no one for the job... although Roemer seems like a lemon.

[Adelante]

23. I understand, cryingshame

I do. But in these perilous times, a high profile warrior may be what is needed, because there is a battle going on, on several fronts. We already have a lot of diplomats, it seems to me, maybe too many. But we will see what happens. In recent years, the leadership seems to do whatever I don't want them to do. So maybe I should back somebody else :evilgrin: for the job.

[Kahuna]

25. I don't want someone who demoralized the same people he now

wants to lead. His rhetoric during the primaries about other dems was dispicable, IMHO. That's not leadership. You don't tear down others, just to build up yourself. Ever!

[RogueTrooper]

27. I thought it was George Bush who was doing the demoralizing.

[Cha]

28. Well.. if you knew Dean's history you

would know that he is a diplomat and can bring people together.

[greenohio]

29. Maybe he is. His supporters certainly aren't. They demonize

Dems DAILY here. This pure hatred for Democrats is not good for the party. Period.

[cali]

30. Although I disagree, and further, suggest

you take a look in the mirror when it comes to demonization, Dean's supporters may feel energized and empowered by his becoming chair, but they'll hardly be running the DNC. That will be, should he get it, Dean's job.

[greenohio]

31. I was explaining

why some may think that Dean is divisive. When really it is his followers who are, and it reflects on him.

Where have I demonized a Dem? Where have I called a Dem a traitor or a repuke?

[Cha]

35. Au contriaire...I find it is

you who never has anything nice to say about Dean. And painting his supporters with a broad brush like that is just silly.

And I don't know about other supporters but I like all the Dems except the neo-CON/dems.

I see "greenohio" on a Dean thread and I know what to expect.

[cali]

19. How many?

Just kidding. I didn't say all, but the evidence is that many, if not most, grassroots dems support Dean. Where's your evidence that many don't? The blogosphere is, by and large, behind him. Many of the state members of the DNC are. Of course there are people who don't support him, never said there weren't, but point me in a direction that adds credence to your claim.

[oxymoron]

36. Agreed

I admire Dean, but he ran a sloppy and failed campaign. Also, he is a too moderate for my tastes. I think the chair needs to be a proven campaigner and someone that can unite the party. I just don't see Dean as having the credentials.

[David Zephyr]

21. I'm with you, cali.

:)

[tngledwebb]

26. The past four years, and the past few months call into doubt,

and thats putting it mildly, the entire Democratic party leadership. If no big changes seem forthcoming by mid 05, our party doesn't deserve our respect.

[BlueInRed]

32. I think that the real struggle is pols vs grassroots and it's

been going on for awhile.

The struggle continues to be between the current pols trying to retain power against anyone who wants to give the grassroots the power and money. It wouldn't matter if it the grassroots candidate was Howard Dean or Peter Pan or Fred Flintstone. Any DNC chair who tries to return power to the grassroots and money to the local parties is going to be vigorously opposed by those currently in control.

And it's sad, because if power is returned to the grassroots, we would discover that the locals know better than anyone how to get a Democrat elected in their own state. We need to let local people set the campaign agendas in their own states and then give them the money to make a real difference on message.

Just look around. Montana with a Democratic governor, Tennessee with a Democratic governor and mostly Democratic legislature, Colorado with a Democratic senator, etc, etc. When local people ignore the Washington party leaders and focus on what works in their state, we get Democrats elected in states that would otherwise go Republican. Even if those Democrats differ on some issues, it is still much better than having a Republican. And it's not a uniform thing -- in West Virginia, the killer issue may be the coal mines. In North Carolina, it might be tobacco. (No puns intended!) In Montana or Colorado, it might be something else.

It is scary that in the face of message problems in southern and midwestern states, the DNC doesn't give the locals some control by providing real monetary assistance.

That's why I support Dean - he will return the power to the grassroots and locals and try to build the local parties so we can run a 50 state campaign.