Eventually, unless your canidate wins, we'll all have to switch canidates!

[trumad]

I was an early Dean man until Clark got in and I then I switched to Clark. The only way I'll switch again is if Clark drops out, and then I'll switch to the Dem's Party canidate.

[incapsulated]

1. I was wise in my choice of #2

Kerry. :)

[fishnfla]

2. One of our guys is gonna beat Bush

with us or without us

[Feanorcurufinwe]

3. I was an ardent supporter of Jerry Brown, I think we would have

had and easier time 'taking back America' back then, hehe. And I had many reservations about Clinton, all of which turned out to be accurate. But I had no problem supporting him wholeheartedly once he had the nom.

[sleipnir]

4. Not true, if Lieberman gets nominated, I refuse to vote for him

I'll stick with my candidate of choice, right now, either Clark/Kucinich/Dean, and write them in on my November ballot. I'm not sure I could bring myself to vote for Kerry, but we'll see.

[Walt Starr]

5. Not so

Read my sig.

[HuckleB]

7. So you would live with four more years of Bush destruction?

Just because your first choice doesn't make it? Sorry, I don't find that to be a wise choice. And I am a Dean supporter.

[Walt Starr]

8. After the pile-on that has happened to Dean

Yes.

[HuckleB]

15. Next to the destruction at the hands of Bush, that "pile on" is a tiny...

matter. To allow four more years of destruction because of personal emotion over negative political crap that has gone on for centuries and will continue for centuries more makes no sense to me.

Period.

[sleipnir]

19. That's a silly assumption...and is the typical canard that ABB's put out

First, I'm NOT voting FOR Bush, and thus don't want four more years of Bush. Your statement is self-defeating for the Dems because it suggests that Bush will win against any Dem. Also, just because I refuse to vote for a candidate does not mean I favor the right-wing. I'm still voting Dem, but it may not be the Dem that the DLC selects for us.

Second, my vote doesn't really matter in the end, because low and behold, this election isn't going to come down to just one vote.

Third, no offense, but it's a fucking free country and I'm free to refuse to vote for whomever I want. If I can't stand a person, I'm not going to throw my vote to them just to get rid of another evil.

ABB is a device that the DLC and the party elite created to hoodwink the Dems into going along with anyone, and especially their handpicked candidates.

[HuckleB]

23. Oh, please. There's nothing silly about it.

If you don't vote for Bush, OK. That's still one less vote against him, if you go third party. That's reality. Second, as we learned last time around, every vote does count. What a ridiculous thing to say.

Yup, it's a free country. And I'm allowed to point out how it doesn't make sense to put pride before the practical bottom line of putting someone in office who is going to treat our planet and our fellow citizens better than Bush. I think that's the admirable thing to do. Excuse me, if you have a problem wiht that.

ABB has got nothing to do with the DLC. It has everything to do with knowing that the worst president in most of our lives has to go ASAP! Our country cannot afford four more years of this incredible destruction.

[sleipnir]

25. You're still not understanding my point, but we'll probably never agree

I'm not going to vote for one murdering, warmongering rubber-stamper to just replace another more evil murdering, warmongering rubber-stamper. That makes no sense to me. Why not vote for someone who will legitimately change things and not just become "Bush-lite" (I hate that phrase, but it's true when it comes to Lieberman.)

Yes, my conscience is important to me and I will vote for who I feel best represents me. Isn't that what elections are for? Not revenge voting, which is what you're suggesting. So, if a write-in, say Kucinich, gets 1%, that sends a damn big message that people are angry with the party and the direction it's going.

ABB is a dangerous tool and even more so in the Primaries. I can see it being used in the General election, but what bothers me is that so many people are staunchly "ABB" and refuse to question or lambaste the few elitist candidates that are still in the race.

Well, I want my country back, but I want it back with someone who's actually going to do some serious ass-kicking and changing. For me, the three are Clark/Kucinich/Dean. (And yes, I do have serious problems with Clark's DLC associations, but he's moved away from that bunch in the last few weeks.)

[HuckleB]

27. Oh, I understand your point.

I also understand that politics isn't pretty. That sometimes you've got to go with doing the most good or the least damage. And I have a very hard time with allowing the type of damage that Bush is doing to continue simply because I have some problems with the candidate who has a real chance to beat him.

No, we won't agree. I don't believe in your black and white world, because it doesn't exist. I believe in getting out into the trenches and creating change, rather than simply wishing for it. It's hard work, and it doesn't happen like any of us want it to happen. But I won't just give up and give in. Too many people, too much heartache, too much hunger, too much pain, to much suffering is at stake. I don't think it's OK to allow all of that to continue simply because you can't make it perfect when you can make it better.

[RichV]

9. I don't understand this attitude

But that's your right. Be one of the 49% who stays home, I guess. Or vote third party.

[Walt Starr]

10. Third party

Or write in Dean.

Or leave that line blank while voting on the local issues and candidates.

[Turkw]

11. If Dean does not get the nominations then

Bush will thank you for your non-support. If Dean does get it, he will thank me for my support. So will Kerry, Edwards, Kucinich, even Lieberman (thought I would have to hold my nose to vote for him) if they get it. Clark has already thanked me for my support :kick:

And the country will thank me for supporting anyone who gets Bush out of the White House.

[Walt Starr]

12. We'll see

Primaries aren't over yet.

[Mz Pip]

16. What is it

about Dean that inspires such irrational loyalty? It's not like he's the second coming of Chirst or something. I don't get it. I want Bush gone and I will vote for whoever the nominee is to get him out.

Dean's postions are not that different fron Kerry's or Clark's or Edward's for that matter. Why stay home if Dean isn't the one?

MzPip
:dem:

[Walt Starr]

20. It's not so much Dean

It's the revolution that's been started by Dean.

We understand now that we have the power and we don't have to put up with the crap any more. We control the destiny of the party. If the party does something the people disagrees with, the people show it at the polls.

It can take a lot of time to reform the party, and obviously the party didn't learn most of the lessons of the 2000 and 2002 debacles.

It will learn and adapt, or it will be relegated to the dust bin of history and another party will replace it.

Time is on my side so long as I don't allow the fear of Bush to control my actions.

[Mz Pip]

24. Interesting

Most people don't like the concept of "revolution". It may have a certainly idealistic edge to it but in reality revolutions are messy and painful and bloody and seldom turn out the way the revolutionaries want.

The Russian "revolution" occurred in 1917. How many died? How pure was the government that followed? How successful was it really? What exists now?

I find it hard to believe that "revolution" is what people really want. Change, yes. Progress, most definitely. But revolution? I think there are better ways to affect change.

PRogressive politics encourage change but not radically. THe change is gradual, it eases people into different ways of thinking in a manner that is not frightening.

What really, do you want to see happen? How will some other candidate not facilitate that change?

MzPip
:dem:

[corporatewhore]

26. we can just switch for another cannidate ......

in the green party!!!

[HuckleB]

6. Yup.

I'm sticking with Dean until he drops or wins the nomination. If he drops and Clark is still in, I'll go with Clark. Next on my list is Edwards. In the end, I go with the nominee against Bush. It's very simple. When there are this many candidates, most of us won't get our first choice. We should all get over that notion now.

[Blue_Roses]

17. this has to be one of

the best posts on this board in the last 48 hours, certainly one of the more realistic and mature ones.

So true.

[funkyflathead]

13. WRONG

If Lieberman gets the nomination many on this board won't vote or claim they won't.

I ain't one of them.

[travisleit01]

14. Well...

I'd vote for Daffy Duck over Dubya, so I'd go with Lieberman if he did get the nomination. Fortunately that doesn't look very probable.

(Whew! This is my first post in GD:2004. It wasn't that bad.)

[Stabidak]

18. Edwards

Surely John Edwards will win this nomination.
Only one who will beat Bush IMO because he is the only one who will be competitive in the South.

[NNN0LHI]

21. Not all of us. I began undecided and remain undecided n/t

[mourningdove92]

22. ABB

I hope to be voting for John Edwards in November, but most importantly, I am voting AGAINST Shrub.

:kick:

[Capn Sunshine]

28. He's right , you know.

Currently only Howard Dean has the money to go all the way to the convention.

I know Wesley Clark can get some, I wonder about the others.

[candy331]

32. Thanks Walt for speaking words of wisdom

I absolutely, totally agree with you. Of course you know the words want get through they will just bounce off because the same things they accuse the repubs of doing they too are doing, following blindly. There is none so blind as one who just will not see. If only they would open their eyes to see it is not just the man it is the message, a true message of hope and change. I didn't choose the message for the man he did, so I chose the man with the message. Anyone of the other candidates could have and should have stepped on stage with the message and I would have chose them. It wasn't the who it was the what?

DEAN to the White house/his house for me.

[sweetheart]

29. how do you know they won't work together?

Perhaps your candidate will be part of the administration, just not the presidential chair. I can live with that... it would make me very happy to be a voter in any of the dem canddiate administrations especially if they were "democratic" enough to join up and form a coalition of the willing based on unifying all the goodwill of all the voters who love america.

It is not a zero sum game. There is a symbitic alternative.

[freetempe]

30. Normally, I'd support that sentiment

but after what our own people are doing to the man who has done more to engerize this party (DEAN). I've changed my mind.

If Clark makes it, I'll vote and give money and volunteer. If Dean makes it, I'll do it 10 times over. If its anybody else, I'll leave the top of part of the ballot blank or write in Dean.

Paul Krugman wrote an article a few days back about who "gets it". Dean "gets it" and Clark "gets it" but no one eles does, not even some Democrats. Kerry and Edwards are making headway by stealing the themes of Dean. Who was the first to speak out about the Iraq war? Dean. Who was the first to take on special interests? Dean. Now that Kerry has found out that he couldn't win by touting his support for the Iraq war or being cozy with special interests, he's changed his tune.

Dean supports need to start a "Draft Dean" movement on a third party or independent ticket. Obviously, lots of Democrats still don't "get it".

[mdguss]

31. Third Parties: Making Life Impossible

Winning a presidential election is very, very hard. 43 men have been president, but only 39 of them have actually won an election to the office.

If you're a liberal that agrees more with the Democrats than the Republicans, and you go vote Green, you've taken one vote from the Democrats. Democrats are going to have to spend a significant amount of time--all told each campaign probably spends about 30 minutes in staff time to convince an undecided person to back them.

Republicans, meanwhile will get a free pass. They will get to focus on reaching out to independents and moderate Democrats.

If you don't go Green, we Democrats can spend our time matching the Republicans voter for voter. If a Democrat is going to win, it is going to be an extremely close election. Protest votes in a situation like this are unacceptable.

Simple fact: if you don't vote Democrat, you are complicit in giving George W. Bush a second term in Washington, and you have no right to complain for the next four years.

[mitchum]

33. ABB

[Adjoran]

34. Do any of you "NBD" people ever think

what you are setting up? Suppose Dean wins, but has to play rough to do it. How many of the Clark or Kerry or Edwards or Kucinich supporters will remember your early "NBD" statements and resent how YOUR candidate treated THEIRS and sit this one out?

Those of you talking about "going Green" ARE going to "transfer" your vote - just not to another Democrat.

If some of you are so set on forming a new party, how about the "It's All About MEEEEEEEEEEE" Party?