Gay marriage...the most pressing issue facing our nation. NOT!!!

[digno dave]

With all the shiit going down in the United States the Repugs, and apparently the mstream media, are going to turn this into a deciding issue for voters. Disgusting.

[DuctapeFatwa]

1. It is not about gay marriage, it is about separation of religion and state

and equal protection under the law.

It is about whether you believe the United States should be a secular state or a theocracy with doctrines of a particular religious sect hard-wired into the constitution, first by the passing of an amendment that mandates that religious doctrine, and the necessary next step, to avoid a constitutional crisis - amending the first amendment to remove the language pertaining to religion.

It is about whether you support a two-tiered system of equal protection under the law, kind of like the separate but equal schools back in the days of legal apartheid, whether you are in favor of amending the constitution to allow for the establishment of a second class of citizenship, today, gay people, tomorrow, well, we'll just have to see how that war on terror goes, I guess.

[digno dave]

2. i know what it's about

But the repugs will frame it to their advantage. That is what they do best. They will make it seem that gay couples will be crawling though the cracks in peoples home to indoctrinate their children.

[DuctapeFatwa]

5. So let them "frame" it. Let them bring the amendment to the Congress

And let the Congress vote on it.

Let them remove, at a Constitutional level, the separation of religion and state, and make the nation officially a Christian Reconstructionist Theocracy.

Let them remove YOUR guarantee of equal protection under the law from the law.

And make no mistake, we are talking about YOUR protection, the granting to the state the right to declare YOU a second class citizen, not just your gay brother.

That's the trick card. Equal. Or not.

Secular. or Theocracy.

Bring it.

[AndyTiedye]

10. It Is All About Hate -- Which is How Republicans Win (Along With Cheating)

The Rethugs own the bigot/homophobe/fundie votes.

We need to get everybody else to vote Democratic.

[AP]

15. Edwards reframed the islam question into one about what governments can

do for people (rather than one about how understanding religion is a prerequisite for good 'policy'), he reframed the entire debate around the questiong, 'does this have anything to do with 37 million Americans in poverty?', and he's reframing this gay "marriage" debate around rights and about equal protection under the constitution.

[MisterC2003]

8. it's still not a big issue

What this economy is leading a lot of regular folks to do is worry about issues like keeping fed, avoiding homelessness and things of that nature. Most have managed to keep it together, but for many these issues are real concerns whereas before they were distant, unreal things that only happend to other people.

the "equal protection under the law" "separation of church and state" stuff that you cite so breathlessly are waaaaaay back in the pack compared to those concerns. So, yes, gay marriage is really not that important an issue.

Plus, making it an election year issue plays into the hands of Rove and the Repugthugs.

[DuctapeFatwa]

9. see post 5

[newyawker99]

12. Hi MisterC2003!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[AP]

16. Trust me, unless we nominate a Dem who can reframe this issue, it's could

be worth the margin of victory for Republicans.

[HFishbine]

17. Sure

As long as we understand the difference between reframing and capitulation.

[AP]

14. It's also about whether corporation can drive down wage rates by making

lives for people harder.

If any two people want to form a committed partnership with the LEGAL benefits and burdens and benefits of "marriage", they should be allowed. That they can't easily allows big corporations to have their pick of people struggling to pay off credit card debt, health insuranc, and rent and car payments, and they can pay them whatever they want.

Businesses would rather you pay two health insurance payments, than get to pay a lower "family" rate. And they'd rather you pay two car insurance premiums than a single discounted "family" premium.

And Edwards is right. The constitution should give ALL families equal protection under the law.

This issue should be framed in terms of RIGHTS and in terms of the downward and outward spread of political, economic, and cultural power -- from the people who make money off of insurance companies and who make money by paying people low salaries, down and out to people WHO WORK FOR A LIVING!

[maxanne]

3. civil rights

are a big issue for some of us, digno dave.

[funky_bug]

4. self deleted

Text deleted

Note to say: I sincerely apologize for offending you with the content of this message, and the term used to address you. It's a funny world, when calling someone "friend" is deemed and insult.

[maxanne]

7. please

don't call me friend.

I suggest you reread the original post - then come back and tell me where Dean was mentioned in it. Your irrational outburst isn't appreciated or on topic.

[maxanne]

11. it's all in the saying

as you obviously realized.

[IndianaGreen]

6. Why should a Christian tell a rabbi that he cannot marry gays?

Here is the view of rabbis Dennis and Sandy Sasso of Indianapolis's Beth-El Zedeck Temple, the Conservative/Reconstructionist congregation of which I am a member:

Dennis & Sandy Sasso
A different view of Bible's message on homosexuality

January 20, 2004

When Britney Spears marries a young man in Las Vegas on a whim and then quickly files for an annulment, what does that tell us about the sanctity of marriage in our society? When men and women in marital relationships abuse one another, are disloyal and disrespectful, then the holiness of the marital covenant is debased. But when two people of the same or different gender commit to a loving partnership based on trust, caring and commitment then, most assuredly, God blesses that relationship, and society should do likewise.

• The Bible tells us that homosexual relations are prohibited.

Taking the Bible literally, out of its historical and social context, is dangerous. Strangely enough, many of those who claim to take the Bible at its word usually have selective hearing. The same people who listen to what Scripture says in regard to homosexual behavior turn a deaf ear to what it says, for example, regarding the violation of the Sabbath or the observance of dietary laws.

The Bible speaks of animal sacrifice, slavery and polygamy. However, a religious community in search of God begins to understand that these are not eternal divine mandates but historic human constructs. Animal sacrifice ceases; slavery and polygamy are outlawed with good "religious" reasons. The scriptural texts that speak of kindness to animals, of human freedom, of forgiveness and understanding testify against those texts that preach the opposite.

In other words, we must learn to look at the overarching divine principles of love and justice and learn to use sacred texts that teach the values of equality, human dignity and fairness to critique those texts that do not. We must understand the few negative biblical references to homosexuality in light of those verses that counter such statements by affirming that all people are created in the image of God and that celebrate human companionship.

http://www.indystar.com/articles/7/113054-6897-021.html

[Monte Carlo]

13. God, guns, and gays.

Three superstitions that the GOP has been exploiting for years. Why should this year be any different?

[AP]

18. Because they're going to get some real traction with this one unless

Dems figure out what they're trying to do and counter it.

And I think Edwards has figured it out.

[Nadienne]

19. Great, then we can paint Bush as a hate-monger

5 Churches in Sioux City will have anti-gay protesters from (I think) Kansas. An article in yesterday's paper talked about the church's reactions: they are sad that people use the Bible to promote hate. And I am working on an editorial that points out that God sent Jesus because the hate-embracing Old Testament was wrong.

(Yeah, you ever notice that those Bible-thumping hate mongers never quote Jesus? They quote the Old Testament. They're really modern Jews; they're not Christians at all.)