The accusation of being an "Anti-Dean" Democrat is offensive. . .

[wndycty]

. . .but anyone who wants to accuse me of being anti-Dean go right a head but I am not. I am pro-Clark,as I am sure many people are pro-Kerry, pro-Gephardt, pro-Edwards, etc. I have not seen supporters of other candidats call people anti-Clark, anti-Kerry, anti-Gephardt, anti-Edwards.

This "Anti-Dean" label is pure crap. Its the type of name calling that fuels animosity that will make it harder for all of us to rally behind whomever the eventual nominee is. Additionally it is also the type of rhetoric, along with "when Dean is attacked his supporters are attacked" and "you got the power" that leads many of us to accuse Dean supporters of not being supporters but followers of a cult. Its as if a number of Dean supporters have been programmed. PLEASE NOTE: I am not calling Dean supporters a cult, I'm just pointing out why many of us have accused them of being one in the past.

The primary is far from over and not one vote has been cast yet. I am fully prepared to support whomever the eventual nominee is, but I am not going to just bow down to the leading candidate at this time. I expect to be able to promote my candidate and criticize others with out being called anti anything. It sort of sounds like Bush saying you are either with us or against us. I am going to be with whomever nominee is, but until that time I am going to fight like hell for my candidate. Keep up this "anti-Dean" accusation if you want, but remember it is just as destructive as some of the behavior many Dean supporters take offense to. I have not been an angel in this, but I am trying to do what I can to improve the environment here on the DU.

Examples:
Soon, the only place you'll be able to find an anti-Dean Dem...
That's great!

Soon, the only place you'll be able to find an anti-Dean "Dem"
will be on Democratic Underground!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=18004#18009

But then there'd just be the one anti-Dean thread...

> I'd like to hear some general discussion about the PATTERN... instead
> of having what amounts to the same debate every time Dean opens his mouth.

But then there'd just be the one anti-Dean thread on this topic
instead of the dozens or hundreds that are possible using the
current discussion method.

Unfortunately, character assassination isn't restricted to Republicans.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=17585#17917

I'm a Deanie and I think the Anti-Dean stuff is Freeps

I know my fellow DUers were never use the attack politics of the right to trash any Democratic Candidate.

F*ck you freeper creepers, you've lost now and you're gonna loose next November.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=14519#14856

[JVS]

1. I don't call anyone anti-dean, but I've seen it used by people to...

describe themselves or to promote one of the other candidates as an alternative to dean.

on edit: I'd imagine using it would violate the nicknames rule

[wndycty]

2. They are wrong too. . .

. . .but don't act like they are the reason this "anti-Dean" tag is being used. And no it apparently is not violating nickname rules as many thread have anti-Dean mentions. But more importantly I don't think we need a rule, we just need to be better than that. If it were up to me there would be no rules and everybody would have to live with the consequences of their words and actions.

[bearfartinthewoods]

24. i'm not anti dean...i'm pro victory

[bearfartinthewoods]

28. BTW...i'm pretty sure that calling someone anti-dean is now against

the rule so if you see it happening, you should alert.

[Melodybe]

11. We can thank the Media whores for that label! Divide and conquer

[mouse7]

3. If one says Dean can never win and will destroy the Party...

... that not advocating for one's own candidate.

[Patriot_Spear]

4. I find the term 'anti-Dean' offensive.

It indicates a certain 'wrong-headedness', in my opinion.

[wndycty]

9. And I am not a fan of Clark supporters or. . .

. . .anyone else dubbing their candidate the anti-Dean.

[dsc]

20. have you told them that

or have you just blamed us.

[wndycty]

21. I have. . .

. . .do you need verified proof? I know as the policeman of decency on this board you may bust me if I cannot provide it.

[ibegurpard]

5. Considering that I HAVE seen some of the very rhetoric you describe

coming from supporters of the same candidate you support, I would suggest that you are preaching to the wrong people.

[wndycty]

7. I'll preach to them too. . .

. . .but that does not excuse anyone. Take responsibility for your own actions.

[QC]

6. "You're either with us or against us."

Sound familiar?

That's what makes me uncomfortable with the "Dean-hater" talking point. It is identical to the tactic of labeling anyone who criticizes Bush a "Bush-hater." It's designed to shut off debate by tarring all criticism as the result not of honest disagreement but hatred.

[Patriot_Spear]

10. You're right- 'Anti-Dean' has a very reactionary, hence Repuke ring to it

My view, right or wrong. That's just how I see it. This is meant for no one individual and you are perfectly welcome to disagree.

[wndycty]

14. Also Dems should not call themselves anti-Dean. . .

. . .I am not going to celebrate being anti anyone I may be forced to support in the General Election.

[Patriot_Spear]

18. Clearly if someone is the Anti-Dean, they are in opposition to my values

...the values which are in line with Howard Dean. If you're the Anti-Dean, you are definately not my candidate, nor will you get my support.

Congratulations 'anti-Dean', you've just found the perfect mechanism to sap my enthusiasm for a fellow Dem.

[quinnox]

8. Agree, it is just more propaganda

It is the same type of propaganda that there will arise an "anti-Dean" candidate.

This assumes Dean will be one of the final candidates in the process, which is yet to be determined.

If Dean gets knocked out early, the "anti-Dean" argument goes right out the window.

This propaganda is perpetuated by certain media, as well as the Dean campaign and some of its supporters.

It's the "Dean is inevitable" nonsense.

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. I say Alternative to Dean sometimes

I say that because in reality I know that many people speculate that Dean is the frontrunner and will win unless a serious alternative to Dean emerges out of the pack that non Dean backing Democrats would rally around. That is a normal political dynamic. I think the term Anti-Dean should NOT be used by Democrats, though, it puts to much stress on negatives. Saying "The Non-Dean" is a more accurate term actually (though clumbsy), for describing the dynamic so many of us expect to happen; a show down of sorts between Dean and some other Democrat, yet to be determined, in the finals

For myself, I too am Pro-Clark and NOT Anti-Dean.

[wndycty]

16. I like "alternative to"

Its much better than anti

[Patriot_Spear]

13. 'Anti-Dean' automatically rules out Dean Supporters as well.

Is that what you want?

[helleborient]

15. Geez...have you no concept of history?

In early 1992, I was openly part of an "Anyone But Clinton" movement...call it "Anyone But Dean" or "Anti-Dean"...it's the same thing. When one candidate opens up a strong lead, there is a tendency to try to stop them by coalescing on most any one left in the race.

In 1992, it was Jerry Brown. There were "Anyone But Dukakis," "Anyone But Mondale," and "Anyone But Carter" movements, Jerry Brown was the "Anyone But Carter" candidate in 1976 as well.

By the way, I was firmly on the pro-Clinton bandwagon by the time the 1992 convention came around. I expect a similar type of coming together will happen this year by the convention in '04...it usually does.

Dukakis didn't lose because others from "Anyone But Dukakis" didn't support him...he lost because he didn't run a good campaign. Clinton ran a good campaign and won.

[Jerseycoa]

17. I agree

I've never initiated a negative Dean post, but have on occasion answered a negative post by a Dean supporter with a negative post to show how easily a cheap shot can be aimed at their own candidate. Usually, this is because I have grown bored with hearing any questioning of Dean interpreted as anti-Dean and supported with vile accusations hurled at the questioner.

What's being interpreted as anti-Dean, except in a few cases where that does seem to be the point, may simply be that there are a lot of people who do not want him as president. It's not more complicated than that. It doesn't mean they won't vote against their own conscience should he be the nominee, they just don't want him to BE the nominee.

I'm also tired of hearing how "the base" is with Dean, when overwhelmingly, it is not.

[GainesT1958]

19. I have no desire to be "anti-Dean"...

Whatsoever. I support Gen. Clark, and hope--and pray--that he gets the nomination. But I'm certainly NOT "anti-Dean", nor would I be in it for that "reason". If Dr. Dean were to get the nomination, of course I'd support him in the general election. I care about the primaries because I want to support the person I feel is the BEST qualified not only to go up against Dub, but to whup his butt!

As far as I'm concerned, the Repubs are the ones who are TRULY "anti-Dean". And anti ANY candidate who'd lead us in the right direction--i.e. out of the Bush Quagmire, at home and abroad.

:kick:

B-)

[imhotep]

22. dont play innocent

you and everyone else have used character attacks.

[wndycty]

23. I have criticized the record, I have criticized the campaign. . .

. . .where have I attacked character.

[BJ]

25. Care to explain this headline from the DM Register?

Yepsen: Strong Kerry push may earn him anti-Dean title

from the December 18 edition of The Des Moines Register?

And then I get an e-mail from the Kerry campaign praising the above column by reactionary columnist David Yepsen.

Seems as if the Kerry camp's pretty satisfied with the "anti-Dean" title.

[Tom Rinaldo]

31. I suspect they are happy to receive positive press coverage

and will take it any way they can get it. They didn't write that headline, but I wouldn't expect them to say "great article but we can't use it because Anti-Dean is inflammatory". Get real. When a candidate says "I oppoes Howard Dean for what he stands for" then you got him (or her) as Anti-Dean, at least on that issue. When a candidate says "Howard Dean is wrong about" such and such, then he or she is anti-Dean on such and such.

To be honest, I have seen many more posts on DU that I would consider intrinsically if not outright "Anti-Clark" as a "Republican infiltrator", or as a "war criminal", than I have seen "Anti-Dean" posts. Very few people have come outright and said that they would not vote for Dean because they are opposed to Dean. More have said that about Clark (and Lieberman). In all cases it is a small minority who take that stand. Usually people are making the case about why they think their candidate is a much better choice than some other one(s).

[dave29]

26. partisan

is a word that could be used. I am a Dean partisan, but not anti-candidate x.

[cprise]

27. Dudes, it almost doesn't matter

America is taking Dean's campaign and running with it. DU hasn't been an epicenter for building support for some months now.

The only thing the sniping here accomplishes is to provide ammunition to neocons who scan this board.

[Padraig18]

29. You're right.

At our last meetup with over 120 in attendance, exactly TWO people were DU-ers, or even knew what it was. AMERICA is now the Dean campaign. :)

[helleborient]

30. I suggest reading some history of political campaigns for everyone...

Division in parties in the nominating process is more of a tradition for the U.S. nominating process than otherwise.

The divisions and such are pretty darn normal in U.S. political history.

[sandnsea]

32. Like "Deanocrat"

Which I find completely offensive and one of the things that pushes me towards being "anti-Dean".