When has Kerry's being a Bonesman affected his service?

[wheresthemind]

He seems to have an amazing liberal record in congress, an amazing record in opposing the vietnam war, and amazing record of heroism in that war.

So in his entire career of public service where has his being in "Skull and Bones" played into key policy decisions he has made, and if it hasn't then why would it effect him as president?

I think most of this Skull and Bones business is a little paranoid. Also I heard a fellow DUer point out other members of Skull and Bones that turned out just fine...

Comments?

[wheresthemind]

1. Where'd everyone go?

I cannot believe that all of those Skull and Bones experts out there do not have an answer to this... I thought that is why we could not support Kerry?

[seventhson]

2. I'm watching Dean right now

But if you want my opinion on how Skull affects policies in America and how these bastards who Kerry is sworn to secrecy and loyalty with operate and what they do... read this (it sums up my feelings perfectly):

http://www.guerrillanews.com/counter_intelligence/doc808.html


I think Kerry's whole career has been a facade, and so most of what he says and does is fake.

BUT - his letting Bush and company walk in his reports on cocaine/contra/BCCI - letting them literally get awy with murder by failing to nail them or even mention them in his conclusions: that makes him, to me, an accessory to their crimes.

He sounds good. Like all good liars.

[Edge]

6. I agree.

I don't know if I can support Kerry if he was a Bonesman.

Is there clear proof that he was a member of the S & B?

[blm]

8. Yeah....That's why Bush1 had to pardon all those guys Kerry EXPOSED

through his iBCCI and IranContra nvestigations, before HIS ass went to trial. Why do you try to alter history for your bias against Kerry?

Are you mad that Kerry's work led to an Independent Counsel on IranContra?

[wheresthemind]

21. Well I am curious about the logic of this conspiracy...

Is it that Kerry's liberal record was constructed to deceive us? And if so then why use it to run against another member of Skull and Bones? What would make sense to me (as much as a conspiracy theory can) is if Kerry were running again say McCain, trying to capture the presidency for Skull and Bones... But why try and unseat one Skull and Bones with another unless it is not the vast conspiracy it is made out to be. How many people who graduate Yale go on to take up central leadership roles in the country? Is it odd that the number who have come out of Skull and Bones have made it there?

It just does not make sense.

John Kerry has a very liberal record that seems to be untainted by the fact he was a member of Skull and Bones, if in fact he was. Skull and Bones did not affect his volunteering for vietnam or his heroism there, his leadership in the anti-war movement, his strong environmental progressive record, and I do not believe it would affect his performance as President of the United States.

Either John Kerry gave up on Skull and Bones some time ago, or it is not quite the evil organization everyone believes it is.

I do not see this as a factor in voting for him as I think actions speak louder then words, and John Kerry is on the record taking action on fights I believe in.

[Zynx]

5. I can't support Kerry because of a lot of different things.

[George_Bonanza]

39. So who do you support?

[capriccio]

3. The bonesman is connected

to the rightwing...the rightwing is connected to the knee-jerk...the knee-jerk is connected to the funnybone...the funnybone is connected to the knucklehead...

People who make an issue out of Kerry being a Bonesman are much like those who make an issue of Clark being a military man; Byrd being a Klansman, Hilary growing up Republican; FDR being born rich; Martin Luther King, Jr. being Christian; JFK being a womanizer; Picasso being a jerk in all aspects of life, save art, etc. In other words, they are uncompromising, pure of heart, and better than any of us could ever hope to be. Let's just hope that this time around they drop out of the axis of evil with the media whores and the corporate elites and allow us dupes of the DLC to deliver America from the filthy clutches of George W. Bush.

[seventhson]

4. ooooh, a talented defender of Skull and Bones

welcome aboard.

Making fun of me will keep you busy.

[oasis]

19. You will be on board with us before long. Bush is the enemy.

[molly]

53. Where did you come from - I like you and your logic!

and you also have a sense of humor! Welcome to DU! :toast:

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. His voting record since Bu$hCo took power

is pretty pitiful. He voted for the Iraq Invasion, the Patriot Act and the $87 billion to throw away on 'rebuilding' a foreign country. I don't know whether or not the S&B connection has anything to do with the way Kerry votes lately, but why would I want to support someone who gives W everything he wants?

[blm]

9. He didn't.

Bush wanted to invade Syria and Iran, too. The negotiations for IWR stopped him.

Bush wanted NO weapons inspections. The negotiations for IWR put them in there.


Bush wanted to avoid the UN. The negotiations for IWR had Bush go to the UN.

btw....you're wrong about the 87 bil., too - Kerry voted against it.

[DoYouEverWonder]

14. I stand corrected on the $87 bil

I still don't trust the guy, but I will vote for him if I have to. I will support and vote for ABB, whoever that may turn out to be.

[Dr Fate]

15. False info about Kerry's vote....

I noticed that smear too- he did not vote for the 87 Billion...

Goes to show that some posters just pick up false info and run with it- and against fellow Democrats, no less...

[IndianaGreen]

18. Where was Kerry when Bush pressured the UN to pull the inspectors?

Was he hiding behind Teresa's skirt? Kerry was nowhere to be found. Kerry did not utter one word in condemnation of Bush.

[blm]

24. On an operating table.

I believe that was the timeframe.

[IndianaGreen]

36. Was that when his integrity got seriously ill?

Kerry congratulated Bush when Baghdad fell.

So much for being antiwar.

[blm]

37. IG.....really.....

you're so much better than this ugliness you post about Kerry. Every socialist I know is thrilled that someone as liberal as Kerry can get the White House.

[IndianaGreen]

41. I am thrilled about Teresa Heinz

Now, that's someone that should be running for President were it not for the outdated and xenophobic Constitutional barring of naturalized citizens from the Presidency. The US is the only country in the world with such a prohibition.

[IndianaGreen]

10. Kerry's legislative record is short and mediocre

Don't take my word for it, read it and weep, from the Associated Press:

Kerry's Senate Career Short on Law-Making
Associated Press
Monday, July 21, 2003

WASHINGTON — Asked what he has accomplished during his 19 years in the Senate, Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry gives a lengthy answer but has a short list of laws that bear his name.

<snip>

His response prompted an examination of his record. Kerry has been the lead sponsor of eight bills that have become law. Two are related to his work on the Senate panel on oceans and fisheries - a 1994 law to protect marine mammals from being taken during commercial fishing and a 1991 measure for the National Sea Grant College Program Act (search), which finances marine research.

In 1999, President Clinton signed his bill providing grants to support small businesses owned by women.

The rest of the laws he saw passed were ceremonial - renaming a federal building, designating Vietnam Veterans Memorial 10th Anniversary Day, National POW/MIA Recognition Day (search) and World Population Awareness Week in two separate years.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,92477,00.html

[blm]

11. He wasted his time exposing government corruption in BCCI and IranContra

and CIA drugrunning. Negotiated peaceful turnovers in the Philippines and Cambodia. Worked on the Kyoto Protocl for 10 years,

But, what nation needs a Senator like that?

[IndianaGreen]

13. Yeah, he was so successful that people are still dancing in the streets

and the culprits are all behind bars.

Kerry is a ticket puncher!

But, what nation needs a Senator like that?

France!

[Dr Fate]

16. So he should have done nothing?

BLM offers examples and you counter with namecalling ("ticket puncher") and a France joke.

At least some people know about these things thanks to Kerry's hard work.

[IndianaGreen]

17. BLM offers unsupported examples without any links

I posted an AP story about the bullshit record of Kerry.

[Dr Fate]

22. Are you going to attack him if he wins the nom?

??? Should Kerry have done nothing?- that was the question.

[IndianaGreen]

28. You have a Clark avatar, will you support a man that voted for war?

Considering Clark's strong views on the war, could you explain how you can set aside all of what Clark stood for in order to back a candidate that enabled Bush on the war?

[wheresthemind]

32. No offence intended...

But no one except Kucinich and Sharpton were completely consistent in their opposition to the war.

There is a big difference commenting on the sideline and being in congress and having to take that vote. While I respect Clark enormously for his opposition, I feel that if he or Dean had been in the Senate, considering their mixed positions, they would have ended up voting for it. Having to deal with the consequences of a vote is a lot rougher (as Kerry now knows) then dealing with the consequences of a statement or two.

[IndianaGreen]

34. The point is that Kerry remained silent even after the war started

Kerry was either a moral coward or, more likely, a silent supporter of Bush's war!

[bigtree]

25. FWIW here's the link to the congressional report - The BCCI Affair

A Report to the Committee on Foreign Relations
United States Senate by
Senator John Kerry and Senator Hank Brown
December 1992
102d Congress 2d Session Senate Print 102-140

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/index.html

[bigtree]

26. Kyoto

Stuart Eizenstat, who headed the U.S. delegation at the Conference of Parties to the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change last December in Kyoto, Japan, told the committee that the buildup of greenhouse gases will lead to global warming and to unprecedented climate changes that could adversely affect agriculture, forestry, water resources and sea levels.

Following is the text of his prepared statement delivered before the SFRC February 11: http://www.iitap.iastate.edu/gcp/kyoto/protocol.html

Stuart Eizenstat, Under Secretary of State for Economic, Business and Agricultural Affairs Statement before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Washington, DC, February 11, 1998.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At the outset, let me thank those members of Congress, in this chamber and in the House of Representatives, who participated with us in the Kyoto Conference and who lent their advice and support to our efforts there. In particular I wish to thank Senators Hagel, Baucus, Chafee, Enzi, Kerry and Lieberman for taking the time to be present.

[Dr Fate]

27. Here are Links for BLM's Kerry facts:

Great way to smear Kerry though- when has BLM ever posted false info?

Kerry and the Iran-Contra Fight
Before the conventional wisdom sets in on Kerry as some kind of careful pol with no bite, folks should reach back and remember his role back in the 1980s in challenging the whole Reagan administration ties to money laundering, drug running and the Contras down in Central America. Kerry was willing for years to face down the CIA, the Justice Department and narco-terrorists in pursuing the dirty dealings of the Reagan-North network of rightwing drug-linked paramilitaries.

http://www.nathannewman.org/log/archives/000945.shtml

22 November 2000

Senator Kerry Optimistic about Future Ratification of Climate Treaty

(Cites growing scientific evidence of climate change)

By Jim Fuller Washington File Science Correspondent

The Hague -- U.S. Democratic Senator John Kerry, a senior member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, says the potential for Senate ratification of the Kyoto Protocol looks more promising than in the past as more and more Senators have begun to accept the science of climate change.

Kerry and other members of Congress have been participating as observers in the two-week climate conference at The Hague, where diplomats from more than 160 countries are trying to agree on ways developed countries can meet targets for reducing greenhouse gas emissions blamed for causing global warming.

http://www.usembassy.it/file2000_11/alia/a0112305.htm

Do I need to link the rest, or is it more fun to smear DEMS instead of posting the facts?

[IndianaGreen]

29. I believe we were discussing Kerry's legislative record

All you are showing me is that Kerry loves grandstanding and getting his picture on the papers, but when it comes to legislation his record is rather skimpy, as the AP story I posted clearly demonstrates.

[Dr Fate]

42. Are you going to attack him if he wins the nom?

You and I argue all the time, and its always when you are attacking Democrats.

[KC21304]

38. AP and Fox. Murdoch's babies.

[IndianaGreen]

40. Murdoch doesn't own AP

but if you have a link that supports your assertion, go ahead and post it.

[KC21304]

49. Sorry , I was only half right.

I was thinking of UPI, but they are owned by Moonies.

[IndianaGreen]

51. The relationship between Rev. Moon and the Bush family

is the stuff that conspiracy theories are made of, and rightly so.

[Dr Fate]

12. No one can even tell me an "evil" thing Kerry has done...

...through his S & B "secret connections". (So secret that we talk about it on DU daily)...

All I ever get from the William Cooper crowd is Christian Identity web-links- never any facts- just smears and innuendo...

[wheresthemind]

23. exactly...

I mean people can point out specific votes that they disagree with him on. He has made some bad choices lately, but overall has a strong record fighting the progressive fight.

Skull and Bones may very well be evil, I don't know, but what I do want to know is how it has rubbed off on Kerry? How has it affected him at all! I look at him and I see a lifetime of service, I do not agree with every stance or every vote but when can you find someone you do?

I just want to know specifically how Skull and Bones had made John Kerry so evil that you will not support him.

[frank frankly]

44. I love having Dr. Fate on my side in this

really, that helps.

I love the yellow helmet.

[oasis]

20. President Kerry's not perfect. A life of service to America is good enough

[IndianaGreen]

31. Voting for the war was a "service to America"?

Kerry is unelectable!

[wheresthemind]

33. This is the type of criticism I can take and debate....

its people who snub him off just for allegedly being from Skull and Bones that upset me.

I'm willing to overlook a few mistakes on Kerry's part due to his record. Dean and Clark have not always been there for the fights that were important to me when Kerry was. However it is a difference of ideologies if you believe that that vote makes him unelectable. I doubt either of us will be convincing each-other otherwise. : )

[IndianaGreen]

35. Kerry is the Tony Blair of the Democratic Party!

And I did not mean that as a compliment.

[oasis]

43. I knew he was "electable" when some had thrown in the towel. Kerry has

a real chance to rid us of a corrupt and contemptable Bush regime. JK is able to fully come out of his shell and give it his all now. He may have disappointed some in the past, but from now on, look for him to do some heavy hitting.

IG, in time, you may want to give a hand to help overthrow the Bushistas. It may take us babysteps, but we can still travel in the same direction until America is closer to where you want it to be.

ciao

[NewYorkerfromMass]

30. If S&B is so secret, why do we know who are its members?

:shrug:

[seventhson]

46. A Disgruntled member leaked it

up to 1983 or so.

That is how we know Lieberman and Dean were not members at Yale.

I think Anthony Sutton published it.

[wheresthemind]

45. kick....

[seventhson]

47. Bigtree --Kerry and the BCCI Report --- Where's GEORGE BUSH?

Bigtree-- You posted the link to the BCCI FWIW.

It is worth a LOT.

Go to the executive summary - go to the recommendations -- go to background and history sections.

In fact go almost anywhere in the reports and SHOW me where Bush is.

SHOW us all where Kerry EXPOSED Bush.

You can't.

Bush is not in the summaries and conclsuions. He is NOT named as a target for further investigation (despite the fact that the report shows several key players had contacts with Bush - evidence is mentioned as missing).

I say that Kerry let Bush walk in this report and the Iran''Contra reports.

I maintain that it is most probably because of Kerry's broitherhood ties to the Bushes via the Skulls that Kerry has supported Dubya in this Iraq war, the Patriot act and let GHWBush walk in his BCCI report.

THAT is what I believe.

Go to the reports and do a search for the name BUSH. See what there is.

Practically NOTHING on Bush.

I urge everyone who cares to read this report and see where Kerry helped expose Bush. It is NOT there.

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/index.html


And certainly no indictment or blaming of Bush for anything or suggestions that Bush and his acts be further looked in to.

Bush I became president and Kerry helped him cover up his crimes.

That is my view of things.

[tryanhas]

48. His entire life

HIS RECORD IS IRRELEVANT FOR THE LAST FREAKING TIME.

Skull and Bones needs to have Democrats and Republicans in order to always have the chance of being in power.

Skull and Bones is about secrecy, and BACK DOOR DEALS.

Skull and Bones OWNS THE FREAKING SPECIAL INTERESTS!!!

Vote for John Kerry, and waste your time and vote.

[wheresthemind]

50. So if Kerry maintained his record as President...

you would still think he was evil because of this one thing?

To say someone's record is irrelevant is a very very silly thing to say as people's records is what defines them on issues.

[tryanhas]

52. I repeat

HIS RECORD IS IRRELEVANT FOR THE LAST FREAKING TIME.

Skull and Bones needs to have Democrats and Republicans in order to always have the chance of being in power.

Skull and Bones is about secrecy, and BACK DOOR DEALS.

Skull and Bones OWNS THE FREAKING SPECIAL INTERESTS!!!

Vote for John Kerry, and waste your time and vote.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Skull-and-Bones

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/02/60minutes/main576332.shtml