The "Loony Left" should disappear ?

[kentuck]

We need to be a party of the "sensible center". So says Mark Warner on his C-SPAN interview. So what would happen if we just faded away? What would be the message of the Democratic Party? What progressive ideas would come from the "sensible center"? Would they still fight for healthcare reform? For a progressive tax structure? For a strong safety net for those most in need? What would be their platform?

Or would they still present the same progressive agenda but just call it something different, like the "sensible center"? Would that be similar to the Republicans calling themselves "compassionate conservatives" but then governing from the extreme right? Could we win races by running from the center and governing from the left?

We on the left tend to be more honest about where we stand and we take our positions literally, in my opinion.

[ixion]

1. the problem, of course, is that such a 'center' is purely relative

the truth is that there is no such thing as a true center.

"A circle, whose center is everywhere, and whose circumference is nowhere."

This best describes it, IMO.

[kentuck]

4. So it's irrelevant...

and we take it much too seriously? Where did Bill Clinton run from? He was a conservative Democrat in many ways.

[ixion]

8. I always felt Clinton was more conservative the progressive

I don't think there has ever been a truly progressive president. Just my opinion of course.

Progressive is not centrist, however. I stick to my original post that centrist is a relative term. I consider myself a centrist, in a manner of thinking, although most people would not consider my views centrist at all. :-)

[ugarte]

11. FDR was pretty damn progressive

And, apart from Vietnam (a big exception), LBJ was very progressive on domestic issues...Civil Rights Act, War on Poverty, etc.

[SteppingRazor]

10. He was actually right oof center in some ways...

look at welfare reform. Or his hardline law-and-order stance, normally the domain of the right.

But as for Warner, he wants to be president, too. So he'll play to the middle for now, shore up the base toward the end of 2006, campaign to the middle again, and then go for the big win.

It's like clockwork.

[expatriot]

9. Shift+R moves the Ctr ->R, we need to be an Alt+R (nt)

[Crazy Guggenheim]

28. True words ixion. And, if The Demos just acted on their pure *will*,

they would return to congress and the WH.

[Fovea]

2. The sensible center was too sensible

to protest 3 fraudulent election cycles. Ergo the sensible center should STFU.

[Nite Owl]

3. We do all the work too.

Hate to tell them but the sensible middle doesn't seem to own walking shoes or know how to pick up a phone. With out the left they had better be ready to pay campaign workers. Oh, but we give them money too or are the corporate donations enough for them now?

[ugarte]

5. The "sensible center" voted for tax cuts, the Iraq War and John Roberts

So let's take Warner's comments a step further. Let's just all become Republicans.

[tularetom]

6. Wow they are still using that bullshit line

Gore ran in 2000 as a "sensible centrist" and they labeled him a "loony liberal" anyway. Kerry ran in 2004 as a sensible centrist and they made him out as karl marx. So fuck Mark Warner. If the Dem candidate is going to be tagged with the left wing wacko label by the repubs and the press he/she should at least espouse some progressive ideas. Let Mark Warner run as a representative of the "sensible center" and watch anal cyst boy, o'lielly and others tear him apart.

[pretzel4gore]

7. let the loony right disappear first

it might be harder for them with all them bags'o'money (stolen) they needa hide, but who cares about that.

[AntiCoup2K4]

12. Well, that settles the question about Warner

Just another DLC whore. He won't get my vote.

[leveymg]

19. He's actually a pretty decent Governor - has been effective at stopping

the powerful Virginia GOP from slashing public school funding and, generally, turning the state back into an antebellum plantation.

That's important to someone who lives in VA who's a parent.

[Toots]

13. What is now the Looney Left used to be the Sensible Center

If we became the Sensible Center we would soon be called the Looney Left. They are going to call us names no matter what we do.

[ljm2002]

14. As I see it, the problem is that...

...our discourse has been skewed so that anything "left" is suspect whereas anything "right" is given a pass.

Anyone who is paying attention knows that the "center" in our part is far to the right of what it used to be. Yet they keep braying about the "loony left". Do you hear Republicans braying about the "rabid right"? Never, except in secret memos about the wacko religious base. But they would never, ever go on a television interview and prattle on about the rabid right in their party needing to come to the center.

Since they have been so successful politically, that should teach our Democratic politicians something.

But no...

[kentuck]

15. So, if that is the case....?

...that anything left has been skewed as "suspect", why would a candidate declare himself a "leftist"? That seems like political suicide, realistically speaking. Why not run as a centrist and govern as a progressive? After all, Bush ran as a "compassionate conservative" and governed as a fascist? Are we putting too much on literal interpretation? It doesn't matter what they call themselves, but what they do.

[ljm2002]

23. Sorry I wasn't clear...

...you brought the issue that a Democrat spoke publicly about how our party should move to the "sensible center". But you will never hear a Republican say the same about their party. The last person who did that was Jim Jeffords, and we see what happened to him -- he was basically forced out of his party. They do *not* go around urging their party to behave differently and move to the center -- they close ranks and have been very successful as a result.

Also -- I am not suggesting using the terminology "left" in order to define oneself. What I am suggesting is that we quit with the carping about making ours a more centrist party when in fact we have been going right for years.

Hope this clarifies.

[catmother]

31. i agree with you. but would someone tell me why

life long democrat ed koch voted for bush because he said the dems had moved to far to the left. i don't understand this. clinton was not a leftist.

[verdalaven]

16. "Loony Left"

is a sterotype that republicans use to define Democrats. Frankly, I am tired of hearing that particular slur. How can I get in touch with Mark Warner to tell him so?

[waiting for hope]

18. Try This....

http://www.governor.virginia.gov/Contact/index.htm

[verdalaven]

22. Thank You!

and done....

[Le Taz Hot]

26. It's also a slur

from the Centrists or DLC Democrats or "New Democrats" against those of us who believe in core Democratic values and principles. We USED to be called Democrats, now we're referred to, on this board and with complete immunity, the "loony left."

[leveymg]

17. Loony Left? Haven't seen too many of those since college in

the early 'eighties when they were (literally) fighting with the Moonie Right.

The Spartakist Youth League and the Unification Church used to descend on every public rally we tried to hold at BU in those days, and their crazy screaming, shoving and fist-fights attracted the unwanted attention of the Boston PD. It was an effective way of shutting down demonstrations.

We came to the conclusion that both groups were actually being paid by John Silber, our Machiavellian University President.

[welshTerrier2]

20. sensible center is around 3000 - 5000 dead troops in Iraq

i would say that the hardcore "loony left" would have called for zero dead troops ... that shows how crazy and unrealistic they are ... if we had listened to those idiots, we never would have invaded Iraq to make America safer in the first place ...

now, at the other end of the extremist spectrum, you have those who would just let the war in Iraq drag on and on and on ... if you do the math, we're losing about 800 troops a year ... so let's say the extremist right, and we all understand of course that the extemist left is just as bad, would probably call for about another 10 years of war ... so, adding another 8000 to today's more than 2000 dead yields a "loony right" body count in the 10,000 range ...

but god bless the "sensible center" ... they are clearly the reasonable ones .. they don't lurch far left or far right like all those crazy ideologues ... no sirree ... practical, reasonable and mature, they play it right down the middle ... it's all about balance ... it's all about finding a middle ground ... they know that they're right because they have found that special place, that special line that walks right down the center of the bell curve ...

these remarkable souls have the perfect vision on Iraq ... not too much this way and not too much that way ... the "sensible center" sees us spending about another year and a half or maybe two years making Iraq safe and stable ... and all this wonderful centrism can be yours with the deaths of only around another 1000 to 3000 troops bringing the totals up to somewhere between 3000 and 5000 ...

the sensible center is truly where America's visionaries reside ...

[enough already]

21. The "sensible center" voted for this war.

F'em.

[purji]

24. "what would happen if we just faded away"

they wouldn't have any one to work the phone banks, send out mailers,walk districts,work polls,ect..

Oh don't forget they also want us to send money.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

25. I have a feeling that people vote not on ideology so much

as on the basis of what they feel about the candidate.

Of course, sometimes there are coat-tails or hopefully * will be providing the "anti-coat-tails" for 2006 elections, provided the elections are not rigged.

And I still have a sneaking suspicion that this whole Democrats redefining ourselves was a meme of the Repubs and the right wing and their media that too many Dems have adopted in a way that mostly divides the party and dilutes the message.

It seems to have been precipitated by the idea that we "lost" the last 2 elections based on votes as they were intended to be cast.

That things like the gerrymandering skills applied to TX politics and other dubious crafts in the repertoire of DeLay did NOT have a major role in bringing a Repub majority to the House of Rep.

And that people like Cleland, Daschle, and who knows how many others were NOT smeared by the likes of Rove.

And that there is NO formidable crooked evoting and all the other tricks.

I believe if we ignore all these factors, we do so at our own risk.

I wouldn't label any part of the party as looney left. Nor would I wish the most leftist folks to go away. But neither would I wish the most centrist or conservative in the party to go away.

I dearly want to take our nation and government back from the bleepin' neocons. For that we need as many members of the loosely connected political group known as Democrats, or Progressives, Liberals, or Can't-Take-*-Another-Minute'ites.

[Hyernel]

27. The "Loony Left" does not exist.

It's a term that the rightwing imposed on the Left and we, wrongly, have accepted it.

Labels are irrelevant. We should worry less about whether we might think something, or someone is liberal, or centrist, or whatever..since one person's understanding of what those labels mean may be totally different from anyone elses...even here at DU.

Rather , we should redefine the left in broad, issue-based terms that connect with that people really think.

For example.... I am Pro-Choice, but I am disapproving of abortion. (Not that it's any of MY business, much less the governments) Abortion should be legal and rare. If abortion is ever to be eliminated, it will be because the necessity, or demand, for the procedure has been eliminated, leading to a world where every pregnancy is a wanted pregnancy. Every child is born into a happy, loving, capable family who just can't wait to start raising that child.

I think if many people, who describe themselves as "Pro-life," understood this frame, they would accept it.

Of course that is just one example.

Hyernel
(Who is very thankful for the spellchecker)

:beer:

[Douglas Carpenter]

29. as I always ask these sorts, who do they mean and what policies

make these alleged "far leftist" "far leftist" ?

they rarely if ever have an answer. It's kind of like they never thought about it.

I have heard the comment made more than once that Mondale lost 49 out of 50 states because he was too left wing or ultra-liberal.

Mondale supported 80% of Reagan's tax cuts and 80% of Reagan's budget cuts and supported keeping 100% of Reagan's military budget.
I guess that's what they mean by the far left.

[Douglas Carpenter]

30. did he actually use the words "looney left" ? I