Lieberman replacing Rummy as Bush's Secretary of Defense????

[radio4progressives]

First let me premise that i do not have the exact quotes or a transcript to rely on for those quotes, so I'm paraphrasing based on memory. Fact checking encouraged, exact quotes and any other kinds of corrections welcomed.

This morning on Face the Nation, Bob Schieffer (in an interview with Senator John Kerry) made a point of advancing a rumor going around in Washington (apparently) that Bush is planning on appointing Joe Lieberman as Donald Rumsfeld's replacement for the Secretary of Defense position. He asked Senator Kerry to confirm it and what his thoughts were. Kerry brushed it off as Washington "inside" stuff and then made a general remark of different views (on the war) in the party.

-------

A few days ago, after Lieberman's pronouncements of Bush's speech before Bush had given it, I realized that Lieberman was trying to position himself for a higher office, (I thought running again for president)even though he lost miserably in the presidential primaries. It never occurred to me that he was actually positioning himself as Bush's next Secretary of Defense.

It seems to me that General Clark should have been asked, maybe he was and we don't know.

I find the prospect of Lieberman as the next Secretary Defense, interesting but I wonder if it might not be devastating to the future of the Democratic Party which is trying desperately to position itself away from the policies of W.

Then there's Lieberman reinforcing the memory that the Party supported W's positions all along. I think this is going to be very bad for the party - but I'm very afraid what it will mean for the future of the Iraq war in terms of it's ending.

What is Lieberman's military background anyway?

[SkiGuy]

1. Kristol said that too

[radio4progressives]

2. Really? When? Where? n/t

[SkiGuy]

12. Quote and link here

So all Bush has to do is fight the war. And if he really wants to torment the Democrats--and advance the war effort--he could make Joe Lieberman Secretary of Defense.

--William Kristol

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/423jshnf.asp

[radio4progressives]

14. jeeze! The PNAC architect makes the case for Lieberman!

holy shite. don't you just love his "torment the Democrats" quote!

he's right about that...

Does Lieberman have a military background?

[SkiGuy]

20. Not sure

But I do beleive he has those defferments that are required by Repugs. And Kristol, who is this guy and why is he trying to run the world? I call him Kristol Meth, but I thnk a more appropriate name would be The Antichrist (and I'll add this: because of my belief in the Bible and the tribulation and all that, this is why PNAC scares me so much)

[0007]

3. Holy fuck, I bet rummy's doing hand springs, cartwheels,

backward flips, while his hand gyrations are trying to catch up with the unknowns.

[IndianaGreen]

4. More like Holy Joe as VP

I wonder what the Lieberman's apologists on this board will say about this?

[radio4progressives]

6. I think this will have a very negative impact on the party but maybe I'm

wrong... :shrug:

[LittleClarkie]

22. Translation: I wonder what the people who disagree with me

on this board about Lieberman will say about this.

Disagreeing with you on Lieberman does not make them apologists.

And labeling someone who does not agree with you with a derogatory term makes your position look weaker, not stronger.

Take it from someone who has been called an apologist, a sychophant, and a "Kerry freeper".

[liberalhistorian]

47. Liebertraitor has

apologists on here? :shrug: :shrug: :scared: :scared:

[NMDemDist2]

5. my only question, does CT have a Dem Governor? who may put a REAL

Democratic Senator in his place?

if so..... Let's Roll!

[tritsofme]

10. Nope, their governor Jodi Rell is a Republican

and has the highest approval rating of any governor in the country right now.

[radio4progressives]

19. What kind of Reep is he? do ya know? n/t

[tritsofme]

34. She is a pretty liberal Republican

I know that sounds cliche these days.

IIRC she recently signed a civil union bill into law.

I imagine she would probably appoint a Snowe/Collins type Republican.

[radio4progressives]

46. Sorry, the gov is a She! And she's pro-Civil Libertarian! Way Cool..

I happened to appreciate Snowe most of the time - some of her votes are strictly party line, but on principle she really seems like a LIBERAL to me - very progressive socially.

Collins is similar, but her posture on the "war on terra" really bothers me - but then that's no different from HC's and countless other DLC types.

[Idioteque]

64. Senator Shays?

Yuck!

If these silly rumours turn out to be true and a Reublican ends up in the Senate, hopefully we can take him or her out in 06.

[radio4progressives]

13. hmm. that's an interesting question... who's the gov?

[tritsofme]

7. Looks like somebody reads DU...

heh

2006: Democrats Control Senate 51-49; Lieberman Appointed Sec of Defense

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2282734&mesg_id=2282734

[acmavm]

8. Crap, Joe Lieberman is yet another demonstration that the Peter

Principal is alive and well and operating full bore in the United States of America.

[BrainRants]

9. Can you say "Democratic Patsie"

Geebus, how fucking stupid must Lieberman be if he's even considering this, and how stupid is the Dem party leadership if they let him.

This is a GOP war. Period. They broke it, they own it. Making Lieberman SecDef colludes us with them, and gives THEM someone to blame things on...namely US. It gives chimpie someone else to blame, and Rummy probably gets a medal of freedom out of the deal.

Gawd I hope this isn't true.

[alfredo]

11. Only if there is a small Dem majority in the Senate.

anthrax didn't work before, so I guess appointing them to bush's cabinet would be another way of keeping Dem numbers down in congress.

[dogman]

15. Which General Clark?

Could you be more specific?

[radio4progressives]

17. hmm. are you joking? Wesley Clark - is there another Gen Clark?

[dogman]

23. Yes, but why him?

He has exposed their inadequacy for years now.

[radio4progressives]

43. LOL! True - what was I thinking? [!] n/t

[MADem]

50. Actually there was, one of my relatives is buried next to him

Only he spells his last name with an E at the end.....

[Skwmom]

16. Maybe they want Lieberman to be front and center to sell further

war to the American Public. Lieberman will gladly send our soldiers off to die in the Middle East. It's not like Lieberman's first loyalty is to the U.S. and the American People.

[DURHAM D]

28. Amen sister. eom

[Canuckistanian]

18. Lieberman's military background? Zip.

Went straight from law school to private practice to State Senator.

[radio4progressives]

21. No Military background?? My GAWD - Why not appoint Brownie, instead?

I hope this is all a very bad joke .. bad rumor.

[Skwmom]

26. But he's for expanding the war in the Middle East. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

38. Holy Joe has threatened Syria and Iran

that makes him qualify to become Bush's war minister!

[radio4progressives]

42. I no longer think it's going to happen..

if the appointment requires Senate confirmation, i don't think it will succeed.

[Skwmom]

44. They will not buck AIPAC and vote against him. e/o/m

[tritsofme]

58. Joe would win near unanimous confirmation

Senators very rarely turn on one of their own.

[DURHAM D]

24. The BBC reporter - Kathy somebody said the same thing

about Lieberman this morning on the Chris Matthews show.

Forget about Lieberman's military background - he is all about Israel. Being all about Israel is just one way to look at the situation in the Middle east.

[mazzarro]

25. Do explain how this will hurt the dems.

I don't understand your reasons for expecting any *'s appointment of Liebermann to be detrimental to the democratic party overall. As much as I think Liebermann getting out of the Senate will be hard and difficult for the party - number-wise, I think in the long run it will make it a lot easier for the party to speak more unitedly on the Iraq war issue and other issues that Lieberman tend to prick the sensibilities of democrats in general. Liebermann leaving the senate will, perhaps, help the country in getting out of the war soon enough because it will no longer give the rethugs the democratic cover they crave for in pursuing the present course.

[ck4829]

29. They're going to tie everything to the D Card

You know they will.

[Skwmom]

31. Lieberman is the new "Colin Powell" for the Republicans.

I believe a recent poll showed Lieberman is highly respected. So they can use him to sell war to the American Public. I'm sure he'll be willingly to say snide disparaging comments about the Democrats in the process. That's basically the only purpose he served in the 04 primary. I remember his nasty comments to Clark in the debates.

[radio4progressives]

35. Yes, I remember too. Lieberman was a real slime ball in that campaign

The fact that Lieberman has no military background should disqualify him automatically from any kind of Defense position it seems to me.

[Skwmom]

36. Remember how Lieberman wouldn't drop out. I think he remained

in the race just so he could hammer Clark and make sure that the DLC candidates were nominated.

[tritsofme]

39. In principle I disagree with you

I think civilian leadership of the military is very important, that's not to say I want Joementum in the Pentagon.

[Skwmom]

45. Yeah look where CIVILIAN leadership has gotten us. e/o/m

[BrainRants]

59. Powell was immasculated as SOS

Any concience he had coming in gave way to "the party" once he was there. Politics trumped policy at every turn.

Lieberman as SOD would be exactly the same, and would also give legitmacy to the war movement because he's a Dem (DINO) in the same way Zellie is a Dem.

If Lieberman does this, Dean should align the party to tear him a new asshole.

[peacetalksforall]

27. Kristol is a loser. Don't bother with him. The internet contains tons of

proof that many Democrats don't hold Leiberman in a postive light. We just have to step up the rhetoric about who Joe really is. Some of those who don't want to or don't get to follow politics might be confused for awhile. We can straighten this out without assassinating Joe. He sure is a wheeler-dealer if he does this. I know where his heart is. We need some Dems on the air and not the DLC.

[radio4progressives]

32. Kristol is a loser? He's drafted the PNAC papers ? That Fascists Won

afaic along with the destruction of the United States Constitution to boot.

I'm not following what you're suggesting regarding knowing Lieberman's heart. I agree with others that think he loves the idea of permanent occupation in the middle east, as the "only sure way" of protecting Israel. (nevermind the murderous policies involved)

I agree with you about needing Dems on the air and NOT the dlc - but the dlc seems to be the only crowd invited on the air most of the time, which is another interesting question that begs to be answered.

[peacetalksforall]

37. Cheney is being villified, Rumsfeld may be on the way out,

some Generals are not all falling in step, PNAC facilitators are testifying for their traitorous acts in support of Israel, the forgeries are going to be re-investigated. Kristol is PNAC and PNAC is in trouble. I should have elaborated.

[radio4progressives]

41. Ok, I get it now. thanks.. n/t

[peacetalksforall]

30. If one of the reasons for going to war and being the imperialist in the

Middle East is the security of Israel, Joe is the right guy, right? How will this go over?

[Skwmom]

33. You expect someone in Congress to buck AIPAC and speak the obvious? e/o/m

[radio4progressives]

40. Doesn't the appointment have to be confirmed by the Senate?

If so, i think it will be easy to make the case that Lieberman is simply NOT qualified to serve as Secretary of Defense . He's got no background in the military apparently so it would be tantaumont to hiring a Race Horse owner to lead FEMA.

I think Congress is at least somewhat sensitive to the notion of basic qualifications for certain positions, in a post Katrina era.

Certainly would not be persuaded to appoint someone with NO MILITARY background as Secretary of Defense.

So, I think I may have jumped the gun in raising this concern on this board. I just no longer think it's in the cards. just a rumor being floated to get us all exasperbated over a non-issue, probably. distract us from far more important issues no doubt.

[flaminbats]

48. this would be a stupid move for both Lieberman and Bush..

It would be stupid for Lieberman because he could never win the Republican nomination, even as Bush's VP! It would be stupid for Bush because his new Vice President or Defense Secretary voted against the tax cuts. What will happen when a member of the Bush adminstration opposes making these taxcuts permanent?

[onehandle]

49. Well, for those who want him out of the Senate, this is their chance.

A golden opportunity to replace him.

I for one, would welcome the ending of infighting over him.

[onehandle]

51. Transcript. (PDF)

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/face_120405.pdf

[radio4progressives]

54. Thanks - this is a Rush Transcript - but most of it is here...

The comments on differing views (on the Iraq war) within the party doesn't appear in this - but that's a minor point anyway.

What the transcript shows is that Kerry will support Lieberman's appointment. I don't recall that remark, but then i was just working on my first cup of coffee and i was trying to digest the notion that Lieberman was even being floated as the next Sec.of Defense.

Despite Kerry's expressed support for Lieberman for the next SoD, I think that the confirmation process will not place Lieberman in that position given his lack of qualifications, lack of Military experience. I really think it just won't go over with the majority of the Senate, not necessarily based on partisan lines, but on qualifications in a "post Katrina era".

[stray cat]

52. Is it possible that this is serious.

Bush is trying to spread the blame around and drag the dems down with his own incompetence in Iraq.

[radio4progressives]

53. As Kristol said, this would be a brilliant move for W.. n/t

[MADem]

55. What could POSSIBLY motivate such a selection?

I cannot fathom it. Is Bush trying to triangulate? Does he think appointing JoeMentum will make Democrats hate him less, or Republicans trot out the 'uniter not a divider' meme again?

Note to Al Quaeda--Best time to attack: THE SABBATH!! The guy does not work, use a phone, ride in a car, any of that stuff (granted, he WILL make exceptions for emergencies, but still....)...the good news would be that NO ONE would have to work late on Friday, the joy in the E RING would know no bounds!!!! I can imagine the toe-tapping, dancing, and leaping for joy the appointment would bring on that score, alone! The days of navigating those cold, dark parking lots at midnight on Friday, bone tired and hoping not to get mugged, will be over!

The other obvious question is this--How will the Arab world at large view this? Especially in light of Lieberman's strong support for Israel, which they might misinterpret as a slight shift in US policy away from the "peace in the region/diplomacy/carrot and stick first and foremost" theme to "Screw you all, we cannot deal with you anymore--Israel is our outpost, and we will nuke you from there if you get out of line."

In normal circumstances, a Jewish SECDEF would be no big deal, just like a Jewish SECSTATE (Kissinger, and later Allbright, who was born Jewish but raised Catholic) but the fact that he wears his religion on his sleeve could make him a lightening rod, not just outside the country, but inside as well--I imagine this would be a real rallying point for a lot of those odious 'hate groups' who love to get really nasty about Jewish people. Of course, the fundies might just be overjoyed, figuring they are moments from the Rapture!

What really bothers me about the idea of this appointment is none of that, though, but a couple of things: We'll need to find another Democrat for the Gang of 14, and HE HAS NO MILITARY EXPERIENCE. I personally do not think an ex-general or someone who is a careerist makes the best SECDEF, but someone who has done a few years in uniform, who understands stupid orders, the shit rolling downhill, the frustrations of leadership in the field, the stress on your family, all of that crap that comes with military life...well, it is helpful.

How solid is this speculation? Does anyone have a definitive idea of the source? Could it be something they are floating to get a bit of feedback?

[Historic NY]

56. joe's military credentials are lacking........

What is Lieberman's military background anyway?

He went to Yale.

[Donna Zen]

57. Hate is a terrible emotion, one to be shunned

But the very idea of putting Lieberman in charge of our troops, makes it difficult to hold back the bile. Lieberman knows zip-squat about the military, military structure, history, or military law. It wouldn't matter if he were the smartest person on the planet (which he is not,) when you don't know shit about something, you need to defer to those who do.

bush would never break with his tradition of putting someone in charge who is prepared to do the job, but in the case of Lieberman, this goes above his usual lack of caring about the military and rises to a sin.

I am sorry that the men and women who chose to serve in uniform have had to endure the wrath that is Rummy. Forcing someone on them bereft of leadership with talking points suitable for birdcage liner, is an act worthy of the deepest hatred.

[TheDonkey]

60. You think Bush would ask CLARK!?!?! WTF! LMAO

I hope that was sarcasm.

Lieberman wouldn't be SOD if asked, and Bush has no plans on asking him. This is just gibberish the media is whoring and Republicans don't mind because it makes it seem like there are "sane" Democrats who agree with Bush so his plan can't possibly be that bad.

[gulliver]

61. That will never happen. It's a ploy.

There is no way any Democrat is going to be allowed to see the real workings of Bush's Iraq policy in the White House. They are floating Lieberman's name to build up his stature. It suits the Bush purpose to build up the most pro-war Dem.

[TheDonkey]

62. You think Bush would ask CLARK!?!?! WTF! LMAO

I hope that was sarcasm.

Lieberman wouldn't be SOD if asked, and Bush has no plans on asking him. This is just gibberish the media is whoring and Republicans don't mind because it makes it seem like there are "sane" Democrats who agree with Bush so his plan can't possibly be that bad.

[SaveElmer]

63. Won't happen...and if it does...

It will mean nothing politically in terms of the election..