It is the internet Democrats' duty to stop the Hillary coronation

[Alhena]

Don't get me wrong- I like Hillary ok for the most part. I will vote for her if she's the nominee. But it's becoming clear that she wants an early coronation. She wants to be known as the invincible front-runner and just have us all accept it. Well, I see it as our duty - those of us who actually care about the issues and inform ourselves about them- NOT to accept it.

I am an Obama man (ready to switch to Gore if he enters the race), but I will do whatever meager things I can to support serious candidates like Edwards and Clark being able to get their message out. There is simply NOTHING about Hillary, other than political connections and presumed inevitability, which would dictate her having the status of near-inevitable front-runner at this point. She's a skilled and tough politician, but she's only an average public speaker, only has average charisma, and she has shown little contrition for having voted for the worst foreign policy mistake in American history.

If we're going to get an entire year of "Hillary is inevitable" being rammed down our throats, I see it as our duty to join together- whether we support Obama, Edwards, Clark or whoever- in the common goal of having a genuine campaign instead of a coronation.

[Ninga]

1. It would seem to me, that 1 national primary would cure the problem. So few states

in the early primary's get to select the nominee..

How fair is that???

[More Than A Feeling]

4. That would mean that victory would go to the one who had the most resources

to compete in as many states as possible.

[Ken Burch]

7. That would depend on how we dealt with the campaign financing issues.

I think its time for the party itself to try to put limits on what individual candidates can spend on their campaigns behalf. It's not going to happen federally yet, so we need to start doing it in the primary.

Embracing big-money politics has never done our party any good.

[More Than A Feeling]

13. That's a thought!

I hadn't considered intra-party public financing! Perhaps the way it would work is, instead of donating to individual candidates, people will donate to the party itself, in a special fund that will be distributed equally to all the candidates who meet some (easily reachable by any candidate with any level of support beyond their immediate family) minimum. Then let the games begin!

[aquart]

2. How about we all just vote in the primaries.

It's nobody's duty to assassinate the character of one of our candidates. That's a vicious and deliberate choice.

[rinsd]

8. Excellent post. No to stopping ANY Democratic candidates! (nt)

[sandnsea]

9. Tell Hillary

I just want politicians like her to stop doing it to other Democrats, and find a way to get it to stop altogether. I'm sick of it.

[Ronnie]

18. What has she done to other Democrats?

I mean, something that's not a right-wing, internet hit job.

[sandnsea]

19. You just did it

Anything anybody has to say about her is going to be slammed as implementing a 'right wing internet hit job'. You just did what I'm complaining about. Those are Clinton tactics.

[Ronnie]

23. I repeat.

What has she done to other candidates?

[sandnsea]

26. Who destroyed Gore, Dean, Kerry?

Is it an accident that LeHane dropped a sex scandal on Kerry, and now works for Hillary? I don't think so. Is it a coincidence that he had previously worked for Clark, who was supposed to pick up NH, after Dean got destroyed in Iowa, where Clark chose not to run? Is it a coincidence that the internet was buzzing with the lack of support Obama had with black people last week, and now we have a poll about black people supporting Hillary?? Is it a coincidence that the big money states are trying to move up their primaries in order to marginalize Iowa where Edwards is strong? Is it a coincidence Hillary jumped on Kerry's 'botched joke' the first chance she got?

Yeah, it's all just right wing internet hatchet jobs. :eyes:

[Ronnie]

27. Wow;

Yes, I think the things you cited are coincidences. Most things are. And, I don't believe even the Clintons are that powerful.

[sandnsea]

28. At least you didn't call me a right wing hack

There's that I guess.

(NO, they aren't coincidences.)

[Ronnie]

31. I believe that name calling is as wrong

as accusing people of things for which there is no proof.

[SaveElmer]

32. Provide some solid evidence...

Not a single link to evaluate what you said...

Show me that Hillary Clinton managed to manipulate the results of a poll to show her popular among african-americans where she wasn't before.

And are you suggesting that Chris LeHane somehow managed to keep Clark from competing in New Hampshire?

[sandnsea]

40. Can't prove backroom politics

Nobody will ever come clean about this stuff. Although Dean did talk about a little of it, apparently.

Dean was knocked out FOR Clark, and LeHane was pissed that Kerry got the benefit instead. He did quit the Kerry campaign, remember?

[Miss Chybil]

50. Kind of like Saddam couldn't prove he didn't have something? nt

[FrenchieCat]

53. How was Dean knocked out FOR Clark, when Clark wasn't in Iowa?

How was Clark in New Hampshire supposed to affect Iowa results? How did Dean coming in 3rd in Iowa help Clark?

Who made Kerry hire LeHane in the first place?

What in the world are you talking about?

[Auntie Bush]

57. Frankly, they don't know what the hell they are talking about.

:crazy: :silly:

[ronnykmarshall]

46. Jesus H Christ!

:eyes:

[Captain Hilts]

14. Yes. Let's vote in the primaries. nt

[zulchzulu]

25. The primaries (a year away) and voters will decide the choice

I have faith in the voters that they will make the correct choice. After seeing several debates and hopefully watching the candidates speak, people will form an opinion that hopefully is not too swayed by media hype.

[MasonJar]

3. I like Hillary best unless Al Gore runs. Obama should have waited.

[Ken Burch]

5. Maybe not STOP Hillary, but force her to work with us

And treat our principles with respect. The Democratic Party needs to become a party that is run from the bottom up, not the top down.

The Beltway pros and the DLC have had their chance. Now it's our turn.

[sandnsea]

6. I don't like her tactics

I want a different kind of country, I'm sick of backstabbing and character assassination as status quo - and that's the Clintons in a nutshell. If we want a real change for the future, now is the time to claim it.

[xiamiam]

48. I think the country is smarter now..I certainly hope so...I hope she stays in politics but I hope

she is never my president...I pray for Al Gore to run...he deserves it..we deserve him...I dont care who he picks as his running mate although Feingold would be a dream...I am so sick of all of these Hillary threads...she is NOT the one to effect the CHANGE of direction so desperately needed..forget Hillary..waste of time regardless of how much money she can raise...

[_dynamicdems]

58. I agree.

The very first thing her campaign did after Hillary Clinton declared her candidacy was to attack Obama, Edwards, Gore and Kerry. Instead she should have jumped in with a solid strategy to get us out of Iraq. Her priorities and her tactics seem to have taken on a distinct RW flare.

[oasis]

60. Hillary's people attacked Obama,Gore, Edwards and Kerry? How so?

:shrug:

[_dynamicdems]

64. Yup. The day after she declared her candidacy. Here's the article.

Clinton's camp fires first salvo

BY GLENN THRUSH
WASHINGTON BUREAU
Posted January 21 2007, 11:34 PM EST


WASHINGTON -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's pollster fired an opening salvo at Sen. Barack Obama and John Edwards yesterday, claiming their campaigns are "stalled or falling" -- and suggesting Obama isn't tough enough to withstand GOP attacks in 2008.

snip

In a clear reference to Obama's lack of political experience on the national stage, Penn wrote: "Some of the commentators look at the ratings of people who have not yet been in the cross-fire, and say they might have a better chance. Recent history shows the opposite."

He then set his sights on Sen. John Kerry and former Vice President Al Gore, who also might run in 2008. "The last two Democratic presidential candidates started out with high favorable ratings and ended up on Election Day -- and today -- far more polarizing and disliked nationally," said the pollster, who cut his teeth on President Bill Clinton's 1996 re-election campaign.


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/ny-ushill0122,0,3666729.story?coll=sfla-newsnation-front

[oasis]

65. "It will be a great contest with a lot of talented people".Yup, that's an attack.

It would be helpful to separate the writers's personal opinion of what he perceived Hillary to say, and what she actually said.:think:

[_dynamicdems]

67. Hillary's pollster attacked these Democrats.

And despite Hillary's words, she has (or should have control) over what those on her payroll say. And, as that headline stated, the Hillary camp came out swinging. Blindly.

[KKKarl is an idiot]

10. I would

go for Gore, Clark, Obama & Edwards. I will also throw in my new dark horse: Jim Webb".

[obnoxiousdrunk]

11. Good luck with that. n/t

[Bitwit1234]

12. I LIKE HILLARY AND WOULD WORK FOR HER FOR FREE

[Lerkfish]

15. the thing is, I want to see who wins in the primary.

and whoever that is, I will support them.

I am more concerned about the msm and republicans pushing Clinton than I am about Clinton herself. She's not my favorite candidate, but if she wins the nomination, I'm behind her 100%.

[wyldwolf]

16. It is the internet Democrats' duty to keep Hot Pockets and aerosol keyboard cleaners in business

The rest of us can vote for who we like.

[jody]

17. It is the internet Democrats' duty to ensure Hillary's coronation. n/t

[kimmerspixelated]

20. I couldn't agree more, except that I

am not an Obama person yet. I like him more than Hilary. Truth is, I've been sick of the idea of Hilary for a long time now. Familiarity breeds contempt!!!!! I think she has an awful lot of audacity, but then every prez candidate usually has a huge ego..you'd have to!

[saltpoint]

21. I believe Senator Clinton faces stiffer competition in the

caucus/primary season than the media currently is suggesting.

I believe she finishes no better than third in Iowa, possibly 4th or 5th.

A lot of primary/caucus voters aren't lured to the celebrity push and are already interested in other candidacies.

Senator Clinton is in a difficult spot, actually. She can't go too far left for fear of losing a general election later, and she can't go too far right for fear of losing base support in the primaries.

The result is this mish-mash in the middle on positions, and it puts her in a difficult spot. It's hard to maneuver when there's less room.

The money is there, granted, but she has to connect emotionally with voters, and so far, I doubt that her now-official candidacy has caused many Kucinich or Kerry or Edwards or Clark voters to come over to her side.

This could be a campaign that is coming to a slow, grinding halt, not getting under way.

[rinsd]

24. She is very likely to skip Iowa altogether like Bill did in 1992

Similar circumstances with the hometown boy running (then Harkin now Vilsack)

She is making her push for NH.

[saltpoint]

29. Very possibly. I could see it happening. But before New Hampshire

there will be Iowa plus Nevada.

It is a high-risk game, especially if one other Democrat finishes first in those two earlier states.

[rinsd]

33. It is certainly a risk

But I think it would be a greater risk for her to go to Iowa and not win. Even without the scream Dean's loss in Iowa was going to hurt him because of his perceived dominance.

Of course if Obama or say a dark horse comes out and wins Iowa, we could have the most hotly contested primary season in years.

[saltpoint]

34. You're right -- Iowa could be a crucible of politics that leads to

a lot of unexpected twists and turns.

I could see the field in Iowa bunched up -- candidates finishing reasonably well, but no one really dominant.

In 2004 Gephardt was expected to fare well, but managed only 11%. Dean did I think 17%, Edwards 32% and Kerry with 38%. Gephardt ought to have done better. He'd already won Iowa once before, he was from a neighboring state, he was folksy, tall, likable, and a long-standing establishmentarian Democrat. His loss knocked him completely out of contention.

Edwards leads in current Iowa polls. He didn't have much cash to spend on the 04 race and gave the Kerry campaign a run for its money. I thought with the polls dropping on Gephardt that Howard Dean would win Iowa. I was way off on that, too.

Agree with you that Sen. Clinton can't afford to enter the Iowa fray and then afford a loss. But New Hampshire is not that much more friendly. And may be even more precarious if Biden and Dodd build their constituencies in the state.

A friend in Iowa City Democratic circles believes Edwards is the prohibitive favorite in both Iowa and Nevada, raising the possibility that he'd come into the NH primary with two wins in a week's time. That would be tough to overcome for the other contenders in New Hampshire.

It would kind of exciting to have no clear winner long after the April primaries and go into the Denver convention with delegates scrambling for a consensus candidate. Gore? Richardson? Whoever. It could get wild.

[rinsd]

36. Gephardt pinned everything on Iowa

"In 2004 Gephardt was expected to fare well, but managed only 11%. Dean did I think 17%, Edwards 32% and Kerry with 38%. Gephardt ought to have done better. He'd already won Iowa once before, he was from a neighboring state, he was folksy, tall, likable, and a long-standing establishmentarian Democrat. His loss knocked him completely out of contention. "

As he faltered in the national polls he saw Iowa as his one shot and Dean as his one rival. He ended up going super negative on Dean leading up to the caucus.

Kery and Edwards coming out Iowa like that surprised a great deal of people and changed the race. I thought that much like you Dean was gonna win Iowa and the 2nd and 3rd place finisher were what to watch in terms of who was gonna stay in the race.

"A friend in Iowa City Democratic circles believes Edwards is the prohibitive favorite in both Iowa and Nevada, raising the possibility that he'd come into the NH primary with two wins in a week's time. That would be tough to overcome for the other contenders in New Hampshire."

With South Carolina next on the list,which Edwards OWNS, NH would be THE primary.

"It would kind of exciting to have no clear winner long after the April primaries and go into the Denver convention with delegates scrambling for a consensus candidate. Gore? Richardson? Whoever. It could get wild."

Wild indeed. We could have Gore "drafted" right then and there.

[saltpoint]

37. rinsd, you are all over this entire scene. Let me have the

wherewithal to keep an eye out for your posts on DU in the coming months.

I'm with you on New Hampshire. It's going to be a barn-burner, any way we stack it.

Roughly a year from now, the first votes for the new president iin 08 will be cast in the early caucus/primary states, and I'm hopeful because of it, since it will mean the beginning of the process that will replace the Bush administration, which has been incompetent and immoral.

So even if the Democratic ticket isn't my first choice in candidates, I will welcome it with flowers and balloons and festive music.

It's time to drive the Bush administration out of office, and a strong, clear vote by a hell of a lot of us is a good start.

[rinsd]

38. Thanks

I appreciate the compliment even if I am a bit embarrassed by it.

You're certainly no slouch yourself.

Right now I think it will be Edwards and Obama.

Obama just snagged two of the party's biggest fundraisers, he seems to be building a very strong campaign org.

"It's time to drive the Bush administration out of office, and a strong, clear vote by a hell of a lot of us is a good start."

We've had one, time for another!

[saltpoint]

39. Yep. Six years so far and two more to go is way too many,

especially when he cheated to win. Twice.

It's on to those first caucus/primary contests.

I'm counting the days already.

[rinsd]

51. I think Bette Davis is most appropriate here

"Fasten your seatbelts. It's going to be a bumpy night."

[saltpoint]

62. Love it. And Bette's the one to deliver that line, no question.

[Inspired]

56. Hillary is coming to Des Moines

this Saturday for a 'hello Iowa' visit. Of course I won't be seeing her....I have better things to do. Like attend an anti-war rally which is being held at the same time. Of course, Hillary won't be attending that rally. I'm rather annoyed that her event is being held at the same time. Instead of the media focus that the rally should be getting, all media will be at her event. Very annoying.

[rinsd]

66. I don't think she will totally ignore Iowa

I just think that she will not seriously campaign there instead focusing on Nevada/New Hampshire.

[Tellurian]

22. Yeah, I'm sick of the sideliners telling me how to fight a war..

They get their rah-rah asses kicked by Republicans then whine because
they refuse to play by the Rules of Engagement.

Alls Fair in Love and War... No kidding!

Maybe they can identify with the dating equation.
Two girlfriends/two guys like the same girl/guy.

How creative does one girl/guy have to be to Win the heart and mind of the girl/guy in question ?

The run for the White House is conducted much the same way.

(The only exception, cutting the strings of your competitors parachute NOT ALLOWED!)

[leftwingnut]

30. Billary in 2008!!

Yes I have decided that a vote for Hillary is also a vote for Bill. I think that a majority of the people really want Bill back in the WH and a large part of that is due to Bush's complete debacle as president. This might come off as sexist and I hope not. I just think Bill is going to be more of an asset rather than a problem. Everything is already out! What else can they bring up??

I want to win the next election. Obama and Gore are great guys and I like them......but to risky! I'm not really in the mood to be risky at this point.

I don't agree with a lot of what Hillary does or says....but we have to keep our eyes on the prize.

[ronnykmarshall]

45. Billary?

Oh how cute. The SECOND time I've hear that RW oldie moldie around here.

:eyes:

[oasis]

61. "Buy one, get two"

How's that?

[crispini]

35. I agree.

However, it will require

1) Organization & uniting behind one candidate.
2) Talking it real to the early primary states to help our chosen candidate.

For that reason, I don't really see it happening except for the case where Gore might get in and the internets would unify behind him.

[MonkeyFunk]

41. Actually

having a run-away winner early helps us. A long, nasty divisive primary season hurts us.

The Republicans learned this a long time ago.

[ronnykmarshall]

47. Nawwwwww!

It's so fun to watch heads explode around here.

Shit. It's only Jan '07. By the time the primary season REALLY starts, DUHHC (Democratic Underground Hillary Hate Club) will have beaten her and her supporters to a pulp.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

42. what a nice way of putting what has been bothering me. BRAVA!

nice post.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

43. Some advice. Support your choice,

You said that was Obama, I think you made a good pick. Work your fingers to the bone for him, work until you've exhausted all your free time. If he wins put your feet up and pat yourself on the back, and take a weekend off before you dive back in to work for him some more. But don't waste your energy on tearing down another candidate. It takes too much of you away from where you could be doing something good.

[Diane R]

44. Hear, hear. I totally agree.

[CelticWinter]

49. I want to see new faces

in the white house with new and fresh ideas. I dont want to see anymore dynasties!!! Hilary should remain a senator and focus on what she can accomplish there and not worry about being the first woman president (although I would love to see a woman president in my life time). With 12 yrs of bushes running this country and eight yrs of Bill and if Hilary won that would be half my lifetime with two families running this country....it is time for a change. I will watch this election close, seeing who is the best of the best, now if Gore runs he has my vote hands down, but if not I will check each person out to see where they stand to make our country and us proud once again and will benefit each person here. These past six years we have been screwed and not kissed, it will not happen again....my vote will count!

Celtic

[AtomicKitten]

52. This will be settled in the primary election -- democratically

I have never understood the concerted intraparty jihads.

Gobama.

[FrenchieCat]

54. Well no matter what we say or do....I'm sure the media will be there to

"lend" us a hand....doncha think?

Democracy is just a memory in my mind!

[AtomicKitten]

55. A puppet show for the masses.

[The Count]

59. Coronations= media deciding our primaries for us. She demanded it in NY

as well - asking for November votes before the primary took place (she had an anti-war opponent which the media REFUSED to cover). As a result, I did NOT vote for her.

[JNelson6563]

63. Too bad it's not their ability

This race won't be won on the internets, it will be won on the ground. Much to the dismay of the keyborad commandoes.

Julie