Sad. Weak. Shameful.

[WilliamPitt]

Poll shows Bush job approval at low point

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-02/13/content_1313344.htm

WASHINGTON, Feb. 12 (Xinhuanet) -- A latest poll released Thursday showed that the job approval rate of US President George W. Bush has reached a low point, dogged by failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, continued economic frustration and increased public interest in his leading Democratic rival.

The ABCNEWS/Washington Post poll finds Bush's overall job approval rating has fallen to 50 percent, the lowest point since he took office in 2001. His rating for honesty and trust-worthiness has declined from 70 percent before the Iraq war to 52 percent, a new low.

For the first time, fewer than half of Americans, 47 percent, now say the war with Iraq was worth fighting. That compared with over 70 percent during the war. Fifty-seven percent disapprove of Bush's performance in terms of job creation.

...more...

This is what you get when you google 'Bush' right now. Yet we eat each other here.

Sad. Weak. Shameful.

As with the other two attempts I made to bring some focus to this nonsense, I am sure this will get locked as 'inflammatory.'

Guess what? It's true. It is sad, and weak, and shameful that Bush has these stories being written about him, and yet we chase our own tails like puppies.

We will deserve to lose if this keeps up, and you can bookmark this thread to prove I said so.

[Dookus]

1. I couldn't agree more...

Bush is tanking, AWOL was EVERYWHERE on the talk shows today, and all people here can discuss is a stupid Matt Drudge rumor. It's sickening.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

76. Uh huh.

Dookus (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-08-04 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #21

50. Do you think it's a lie made up by Drudge?


He quotes an entire letter from a Kerry staffer.

Just because it's on Drudge doesn't mean it's untrue.



*cough*

[HuskerDem]

101. Wow, can we dig up one of yours now?

I'll bet we could find a good one.

*cough*

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

107. Sure.

[politick]

2. well what else

are we going to do? It's politics, my man. We're in a vaccuum. Though I must say I've been pretty put off by the bickering, I think 95% of us are in agreeance, as a wise man said, that W must go.

[Jack_Dawson]

3. Dupe. GD.

[DjTj]

4. This forum is for bashing Democrats.

If you want to bash Republicans, go over to GD.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=104

GD:04P is the circular firing squad of DU.

[Jack_Dawson]

6. LOL

[calimary]

5. What can I say?

The WHOLE thing is sad, weak, and shameful.

But why would this get locked as "inflammatory"? Sorry, late at night, bone spur bothering me, kids won't get to bed, probably not focusing well.

What I hate to see is that the bush stories continue and the asshole's ratings are still 50 percent or slightly above. WTF? Didn't realize there was THAT much Kool-aid being enjoyed out there.

[Redneck Socialist]

7. This too shall pass

C'mon you could see this coming a mile away. Right now we're like rats in a cage. We can't get at the jackass who stuck us in the cage so we're tearing up each other. Come the general election most of us will get our heads screwed on straight, bust out of the cage and be swarming all over BushCo. Yeah it's silly but at least we give a shit. As misguided and insane as our passions seems to be I'll take this over apathy every single time.

[politick]

9. well said

we spend HOURS on here. We got to get cagy now and again. But none of the vitriol compares to the ire we'll spew at W. come election time.

[Momof1]

8. Your right.

I just signed in here 20 mins ago, and I am shocked at what I have been reading. I mean jeez....I have to tell my mom on a daily basis to turn Faux News off. Should I add a sig line that says DRUDGE LIES, and he is Rove's little stooge. Think about the BIG picture. Was that posted on Drudge to cause in fighting among us? Well it sure is working.

[4morewars]

10. What I find disturbing....

is that 50% APPROVE !!! I just don't get that.

As for the rest of your post, are you talking about the way people bash the candidates and their supporters ? I also find some of that disturbing.

[w4rma]

11. Hopefully Kerry won't purge

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=323388

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

13. I find that story equally unreliable and inflammatory.

[w4rma]

19. I found the alleged Democrats on the thread who agreed with that tactic

inflammatory and makes me think that the article itself is probably quite true.

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

12. I agree! Bush is on the run like never before, and a few people

here are bending over backwards to take down the one candidate that has a fighting chance to kick his ass out of the Oval Office in November.

And if you don't agree he has the best chance of doing that like I do, at least one must admit that it's apparent he is going to be the one charged with doing so.

The only ones buying in to this Drudge crap are those who were already Kerry haters to begin with, so it's a bit ironic that these same folks would scream their heads off if Drudge came out with a shitstorm about Dean and decry Drudge as the right wing hack that he is.

[politick]

14. There you go again....

Pardon me, but I thought Will's post was intended to point out the futility of JUST THAT KIND of post...?

Let's shake hands and do what most sane Americans must do: support your candidate till the bitter end, then unite and Take America Back.

Kay?

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NV1962]

16. Locked - sanitybait

;)

[AP]

17. What's really sad is we're this far into the primary, and I've yet to hear

a debate of ideas which would lead anyone to feel any compelling reason to vote for Democrats.

Remember how Clinton came out of the primaries? I think it was pretty clear what he believed in, and that it was founded on core democratic principles that people undersood.

What principles have we affirmed so far.

Fuck Bush just for one moment. What the hell do Democrats believe in right now?

Not going AWOL? That isn't enough. Right now, Bush is trying to help his fascist cronies overthrow another democratically elected government (the first was Venezuela). The same thing's going on in the US.

What kind of bulwarks are we putting up so that voters can feel and know the arguments against this sort of crap?

I don't see any forming.

That's the thing that is shameful.

[seaglass]

54. Honestly I think it has a lot to do with how compacted

the primaries are more than anything else.

I admit that I've never followed primaries this closely but it seems like everything is rushed.

[RafterMan]

18. And yet...

As you point out, Bush keeps on tanking.

Our strategy of bitter infighting seems to be working...

[ronzo]

20. Couldn't agree more.

The "we eat our own" mentality is beyond me. And...
All you have to do here is consider the source.

[JVS]

21. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

[Sensitivity]

103. I never saw this kind of personal attack against Dean. Is it ok a long

as it is personal?

[JVS]

104. There have been plenty of accusations, including personal ones on Dean

Ranging from accusations of draft dodging to bashing his wife for having her own career. And I learned of them all here, on DU. So when I hear complaints of other candidates getting unfair treatment here I have no sympathy
:nopity:

[JaySherman]

22. It's yet another created distraction

We can't keep letting them do this. I attempted to start two threads on this earlier and let's just say my warnings weren't well recieved.

[JackRiddler]

23. Cute. Unity. Rhetoric.

Sorry, Will, where exactly are "we" supposed to tear each other apart, if not in the safety of an electronic board? This isn't flaming or tail-chasing, it's debate, and you know plenty about that.

These debates are important! Don't try to shut them down with false appeals to unity. If there's something you dislike, then you should engage, factually.

I recall your own thread titled, "IT'S PRIMARY SEASON," wherein you argued that anything goes among the candidates in a primary - as long as they unite in the end. At the time, your choice of candidate was way behind and in a constant attack mode. You weren't calling for unity then. Well, now he's the front runner and getting a piece of it back.*

I don't think critiques of the candidates on this board translate into any momentum lost in the struggle against Bush. You of all people should know the ongoing burning of the Shrub was largely initiated from within our own clandestine services, and is not reliant on some fake show of unity among us here.

Lighten up, dude.

-----------------------------------------
(* I hope we're talking about the same thing here - political critiques of candidates, not the intern/Drudge nonsense.)

[Jack_Dawson]

24. LOL

Seriously. The self-importance is suffocating.

[Eloriel]

25. Oh, I've already come to the realization we deserve to lose

But not for the reasons you suggest.

It's interesting how when the shoe is on the other foot, things are suddenly bad, shameful, sad. There was a time when you encouraged and celebrated what amounts to "eating our own." Just as long as it wasn't your guy(s) getting eaten, I guess:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=911224

[JVS]

26. Amen!

It reminds me of the 2000 year old man's words of wisdom "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall in a hole and die"

[jonnyblitz]

28. I agree

good post. :thumbsup:

[Terwilliger]

29. BOOM!

hehe

[KoKo]

69. Will, you told us not to stop, to "fight like Valkyries." Quote from you:

"I'm sorry for engaging in so many candidate brawls lately. Specifically, I apologize to the Dean people, because their
candidate has received about 99.3% of my fire in the last few days.

I'm not going to stop, of course. This is primary season, and if the candidates and their supporters do not fight like
valkyries for the chance to win that nomination, they do all of American democracy a disservice. Consider the
alternative: Passive, quiet, mealy-mouthed campaigns in which, due to the lack of aggressive tussling, there is no
effective way to suss out positions and ideologies. That would be a disaster, so I am not going to stop."

[JVS]

92. I'll go cue up the music

[edzontar]

70. Thanks, Eloriel, for telling it like it IS!!!!

The hypocrisy of our Dean-bashing colleagues, who have suddenly found religion and lbemoan the Media and DU criticiques of their own "leading" but not quite yet anointed candidate. seems to know no bounds.

Reading this stuff makes my blood boil with rage, and my stomache churn with nausea.

I have no sympathy for them whatsoever, and wish them all a hearty helping of crow as they lead our party and our nation to shame, weakness, and defeat.

[Walt Starr]

90. Good post, Eloriel, I sound my Heathen YELP over it!

:D

[TexasPatriot]

27. see.. the problem is we all agree that W is a dumbass

if we all stood around all day whining and complaining about W all the damned time then it would get awful old awful fast. So, Skinner gave us a room to load up the flamethrowers and 'have at it'... it's good to get this crap out in here.

Yes Bush is an awful person - and hopefully we'll have a candidate from whom we can draw a good contrast. I dont know who that candidate is right now.

[maggrwaggr]

30. why I almost never come to this forum

it's like a big whirlpool of negativity that will suck you right down to the bottom.

I only came here to get news during primary election days.

Why am I here tonight? I actually clicked on the wrong forum.

Looking around, I see it hasn't changed. :)

Kerry sucks! What happened to Dean sucks! Clark dropping out sucks!

(help me, I'm faaaaallllling ........!

[JVS]

32. I prefer to think of it as a negativity jacuzzi

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[JaySherman]

33. ROFL! nt

[Eloriel]

35. What a perfect time for THIS little non sequitor

raspberries

[Adjoran]

Unity is required AFTER the primaries

Now, I don't approve of jumping to conclusions, and we don't really know anything yet. No mainstream news outlet has reported on this stuff yet, so it is all just unconfirmed.

I've been one urging people on all sides to cool it and not burn any bridges between the various campaigns' supporters. We should on this, too.

It seems to me that Dean and Clark have taken their licks in this race. If there turns out to be a real story here, Kerry should be willing to take his.

Clinton took his on a similar allegation, and went on to win, so it doesn't mean instant disqualification. But there are a lot of delegates left to be selected before anyone clinches the nomination and can rightfully issue the unity call. A major portion of Kerry's support has come from people who want to win in November, and this would be a legitimate consideration in that respect.

The primaries have always been the warm-up for the general. It's not how many blows you take that matters, it is how you take them.

I'll support the nominee with enthusiasm, no matter who it is. I just don't think it is necessarily over yet, and the trailing candidates and their supporters are entitled to speak their peace, and let the voters decide.

[kenny blankenship]

34. Iraq War Resolution, Patriot Act, Taxcuts for Millionaires

Very sad, weak and shameful --and very, very Kerry.

Of course it doesn't help that he wants to make separate and UNEQUAL a part of our Constitution 136 years after we took it out, at the cost of over 600,000 lives.

[w4rma]

37. MA *state* constitution, not U.S. Constitution, I think. (n/t)

[corporatewhore]

36. why cant we criticize him for things like nafta iwr instead of who he is

sleeping with

[JVS]

38. Because those issues have already been forsaken for electability.

and potential sex scandals are quite germane to that issue.

[JaySherman]

42. In spite of my dislike of Kerry

mainly stemming from the pro-Telecom and Iraq War votes. I'll hold my nose and vote for him. Rather have him over * any day.

[JVS]

43. Yeah, but that's not the issue.

We've already embarked down a path of trying to pick a candidate as appealing as possible for the american voters. Many people here are ABB, they'd vote for anyone. So what we think is no longer an important factor. The current campaigns are decided on the issue of electability. Since this is the case an event like this alleged affair would be of great importance because it would be very damaging to electability.

[JaySherman]

44. Which is exactly why I'm in total agreement with Will.

We can't allow Kerry's alleged affair become an issue here and distract us from the more important issues at hand. When I logged on today to see so many new threads about Kerry's affair, I was disgusted and horrified. This has GOP smear tactics written all over it. Scandal involving the strongest potential challenger, revolving around personal matters, with a leak timed just when public opinion is beginning to turn. Gee, where have we seen crap like this before? Clinton? Dukakis? How many others?

Whether or not we fight amongst ourselves over our candidates doesn't matter much in the larger scheme of things. But too many of us have worked too hard getting the message out, whether it was out on the streets, on the Internet, or just in our own private circles of friends and family. We can't lose it all. Where this scandal (if it becomes such) will hurt Kerry most is with moderate swing voters, who regard personal issues like affairs as important, stupid as that is. This is why we have to keep working. We knew this was going to happen at some point. We've got to be the first ones to ignore the talking points and shout against it.

Now is a critical time, the potential turning point in the election as I see it. The * lies that we've screaming about for months are finally starting to make it to the mainstream press. Everything I'm seeing says public opinion is beginning to turn. We who have devoted our efforts kicking the squatters out of the White House need to keep the heat on. Every day we allow this GOP-engineered dirt to become the central issue on this board puts us another news cycle away from what has been a very good week for our side. Give it another week or two, and Karl Rove will surely sweep Bush's recent exposure under the carpet. Unless we keep making noise to prevent that from happening, we'll be finished long before November.

Edited for typos.

[JVS]

45. We've already been distracted. Kerry is most popular as the electable...

candidate. This electability issue is important because it is what has put our front-runner in the front-runner position. We can't go back in time and change this. And we can't just try to change the subject because it is inconvenient. These allegations could destroy his electability among the moderate swing voters he is trying to attract. Kerry must be able to crush this allegation immediately. If he doesn't he could be torpedoed in the GE completely. We'd better work our asses off to make sure that Kerry doesn't get the nomination if this allegation is true. We cannot afford to ignore such a liability.

[w4rma]

39. I *think* Kerry is currently pro-fair trade, not free-trade. (n/t)

[corporatewhore]

49. nope

yeah he did try to get an ammendment in about workers rights in the bushs fast track to FTAA but it didnot make it in and he still put his stamp of approval on it nothing is fair about NAFTA GATT WTO or permanent trade status with china all which he voted for

[JaySherman]

41. Agreed

Or voting for the Telecommunications Act in '96. I've always held that against him, since that disasterous bill is one very big reason we're in this mess now.

[Dhalgren]

72. I agree Co-Ho!

I've got a long list of reasons I can't support Kerry. From IWR to gay marriage to tax cuts - I don't care who he has had the "hots" for, now, in the past, or in the future. We have real issues that cause us to go for each other's throat, we don't need sludge/rumors and what the meaning of "is" is crap.

[last1standing]

46. Wrong Will.

We can bookmark this thread to prove that you said we might lose, but it in no way will prove that we lost due to our own cannibalism, nor will it prove that we should lose because of it. Few can claim to have hated bush* and his policies more than myself, but we must have a primary in which we challenge each other to prove who is the best person to be President of the United States of America.

I think many of the methods used to destroy our candidates are self defeating, but I don't remember you complaining when they were being used against Dean. Now that Kerry is coming under the gun, don't try to change the rules. He will have to undergo the same lies and half truths that Dean fought against and if he can't handle it, then let a candidate who can step forward. But please do not ask us to ease up on any candidate until the nomination is secured. There was a time when that would have been appreciated, but that time is passed.

[JVS]

47. Preach it!

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shindig]

48. bush must go!

the last presidential election was stolen. We're dealing with election thieves here. Our agendas must be put on hold this time around, ladies and gentleman. It's not about the pefect candidate. It's about removing Bush; he seems a little, um, dangerous to a lot of people's health!

Any one of the nine who started is better than than four more years of this reactionary nutjob, making it up as he goes along. We have a president who appears to be oblivious to death and destruction. I find it odd.

Our friends abroad await with bated breath America's decision to retain or remove the current occupant. He's entrenched pretty well, too. Those numbers Mr. Pitt showed us aren't really all that bad, considering his performance. Let's stay focused on beating Bush!

[Fight_n_back]

50. William Pitt

Forgive me if it seems like I am blowing smoke up your skirt.

I would like to thank you for being a warrior for our cause. You have my respect and that is something I dole out lightly. As you may recall, my dearly departed Father in Law was a great writer and I wish that he could see some of the things you have written.

When we win this four year struggle against the usurper I hope you take a moment to reflect on the choices you have made and how it has helped illuminate and invigorate.

If you are ever in San Francisco, let me know and I will buy you a Guinness.

[Iverson]

52. no, not shameful, and not that sad and weak

Except for the contingent that wants to stand "shoulder to shoulder" with him on war of aggression, there is acknowledgement here that Bush and the far right are so manifestly awful that there is little to discuss about it.

The nature of opposition to nascent fascism is, however, a legitimate topic of debate. By definition, this admits the possibility of "eating our own." GD2004 Primary is for that purpose and, it seems, no other.

I would call easy distractibility a weakness. For example, this place turned itself inside out yesterday over rumors of an affair. A thread or two should have sufficed to fully address the topic.

Unfortunately, this is human nature. There are moments when it may be sad or weak, but no shame attaches to even the most boneheaded discussion, as long as it's done in good faith.

You are overreacting. Sometimes I overreact too. Probably all of us do. One cannot shame others into becoming less vulnerable to propaganda and darker impulses, but one might have some influence by setting a good example. Stick with your strong suit.

[Mairead]

57. "A thread or two should have sufficed to fully address the topic"

Well said, Iverson.

But I think that ignores a question that Will's criticism also ignores. Namely: why didn't it suffice?

My sense is that this kind of gossipy obsessing over trivialities reveals that even DUers are modern peasants. And this is one of the village wells. Peasants have no honest excitement in their lives--they're just work units--so they manufacture fake excitement and gossip eagerly about it around the well. And periodically the church (today the media) or the nobility declare a festival to get people really exhausted. That way they don't have to worry that their work units will actually start listening to some itinerant priest provocatively asking 'Qhan Adamme dalf ond Eva spanne, Qho wast þanne þe gentil manne?'

And the peasants don't have to worry about it either. :(

[Iverson]

60. About that hypothesis ...

... I can't disprove it, but come on over here so I can tell you some *really* hot stuff!

(whisper, whisper, whisper)

:silly: :think: :silly:

[Mairead]

63. heh heh heh

*snork*

:evilgrin:

[Guaranteed]

53. Us Dean supporters are only the saying the same things that we've said

for months and months. You know what they are. We're very consistent, and we're not changing. We're right, goddammit, and we're not backing down.

We WILL keep this party honest.

[spooky3]

55. I wish you would step in when Edwards-bashing occurs around here

which it often has. Edwards supporters are badly outnumbered at DU and it would be nice if other non-Edwards supporters would intervene when sad, weak, and shameful comments with no basis in fact or downright inaccurate statements are posted about him by rival candidates' supporters. I have often stepped in when I see this happening with other candidates. Thanks for considering this.

[mmonk]

56. I thought about that too

Do we reflect larger party splits?

[quaker bill]

58. If the best we can do is pick a candidate on "electability"

We are destined to lose anyway. "electability" is vapid. It has no substance and is easily damaged by BS like this.

[Cuban_Liberal]

59. I'm not ready to join the "Move along, nothing to see here" movement.

This is a primary, Mr. Pitt, not a coronation. Other candidates have had to take their 'licks', most notably Dr. Dean and Gen. Clark, and Sen. Kerry has no special exemption in that regard. If there is nothing to this allegation, then that will come to light; if there is nothig to this allegation, then the Kerry campaign should quit saying 'No comment' and issue a substantive denial.

[Paragon]

61. Wicked. Tricksy. False.

[nightperson]

78. What a candid photo!

The Rove money obviously went right up his nose and is already gone. Drudge needs to find his hat (not to mention some clothes), quit clubbing, go home and get some sleep and some solid food.

[goobergunch]

62. I agree with your post here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=891568

I could go on, but you get the point. Primary season is a savage time. This has, to date, been tame by comparison.

Oh...and DU is not America.

And here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=911224

I'm not going to stop, of course. This is primary season, and if the candidates and their supporters do not fight like valkyries for the chance to win that nomination, they do all of American democracy a disservice. Consider the alternative: Passive, quiet, mealy-mouthed campaigns in which, due to the lack of aggressive tussling, there is no effective way to suss out positions and ideologies. That would be a disaster, so I am not going to stop.

<snip>

If anyone thinks any Democratic candidate has been truly harsh to another Democratic candidate - and I am including Lieberman's brainless drool from today, along with that harebrained Iowa commercial - that person will be rudely surprised come late summer, because the filth that is coming our way after Boston will likely have no precedent, anywhere, ever. This primary season has been tame. Tame. These people are getting along famously compared to some old-school campaigns of yore.

<snip>

So we're going to have to get along in about eight months, whether we like it or not. The primaries are for fighting; if you are still unable to grasp that or are uncomfortable about it, I most respectfully suggest you get off the bus while you can. I mean that with no disrespect (and of course I am not saying "Leave DU"). You'll be happier, maybe, if you avoid the candidate threads entirely. I did for a while, and it was recuperative as all get-out. Almost as good as swearing off CNN.

Most all of you won't get off the bus, and neither will I. Most all of you will continue fighting, regardless of blandishments to the contrary, because that is the nature of the season and the contest itself. Appeals to ABB or togetherness are sandcastles before tidal waves. Res ipsa loquitor. The thing speaks for itself.

[NicoleM]

64. What the hell do you want us to do?

Seriously, what should I be doing right now? Do you want protests in the streets? Should I be spamming Free Republic with threads about how terrible the Boy King is?

As far as I'm concerned, telling us that we're chasing our own tails like puppies is as big a waste of time as us chasing our own tails like puppies.

[VelmaD]

65. You like to point out...

that DU is not America and in this case I think that is a VERY GOOD THING.

Hopefully the majority of Americans won't get caught up in the endless tail-chasing and back-biting that goes on here and will have a much better ability to focus on who is responsible for the real problems in this country.

I talk to my family all the time and they give me hope. They don't care about which Dem candidate did or said what to who about who etc. They only care about getting chimp-boy out of office. I'm hopeful that there are millions of "average" people just like them out there. :-)

[Jacobin]

66. Yeah. Let's NOT vet our own candidates

The republicans won't try to find out if Kerry is a womanizer and the voting public won't care if he lied about an affair.

/sarcasm

[GumboYaYa]

67. The encouraging thing is that at least when

Dean was unfairly maligned in the press for the Scream speech everyone here jumped to his defense. There was no glee in that for the supporters of other candidates. No one said he should withdraw. Everyone was pointing out how the overplay of the speech was an abuse by the media and NO ONE here continues to mention that speech to slander Dean.

Sad. Weak. Shameful. I must agree!

[libview]

68. hey, will pitt, why do you start these discussions

and then not participate in them?
just curious

[Snivi Yllom]

71. Don't you have campaign press to run?

Or is it really not that busy?

I mean, if I was a candidates press secretary I think I might not be taking time off from my number one job.

Just asking.

[molly]

73. The true test of a GENIUS is the ability to multi-task

[Snivi Yllom]

87. So I'm a Genius too

Because at the moment I am picking my nose, debating eating it, and responding to you.

Multitasking. I'm a......

[Dhalgren]

77. And who has asked you to be their press director?

Just asking...

[Snivi Yllom]

81. Well If I was asked to be a press director

I would be working 110% on it and not concerning myself with other candidates possible personal issues or how they are being discussed at an internet discussion board. I think getting my candidate in the press might be a tad bit more important.

But yes, I am not a press secretary, so what do I know....

[Blue_Roses]

74. THANK-YOU, thank-you , thank-you!

Why the hell so many continue to focus on the "drudge report," and not the distruction of the adminstration just beats me. This latest story of Bush record being thrown in the trash by Joe Allbaugh has credibility. Allbaugh gives me the creeps and would move heaven and earth to keep Bush's record clean. The heat needs to be on this, not our candidates. There are MANY nasty stories about FEMA's director and some employees...my neighbor worked for FEMA and knows Joe Allbaugh WELL.

I say quit focusing on this petty CRAP that is just plain stupid and start "re-focusing" on who the real liar is--this administration.

[Padraig18]

75. Oh, by all means, let's just ignore it and hope it will go away.

Then we can let KKKarl resurrect it in, say, October.

/sarcasm off

[Tinoire]

80. Why not? It worked with Jennifer Flowers, Monica Lewinsky & Donna Rice

<sarcasm>

All we have to do is bury our heads deep enough and wait for the BOOM!

[Padraig18]

82. Can I sahre your hidey-hole, Tinoire?

We'll have to dig a VERY deep one to avoid the shrapnel after this detonates. :P

[Tinoire]

102. Lol- It's the deepest fox-hole this side of the Atlantic!

You're welcome anytime!

Bring liquor & ear-plugs though- we're going to need them- even that deep ;)

Peace

[Tinoire]

79. Will, I would truly appreciate it if you put a disclaimer at the end

of your posts that this is a private opinion and in no way related to your duties as Press Secretary for Kucinich & added a note on the ones that are.

You may otherwise be seen as serving 2 masters and as a Kucinich supporter I would not like that one bit.

On edit:

And here we go: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=326517

Perception is everything. This is not wise at all.

[Raenelle]

83. We need to take the offensive against them

General Grant said he didn't worry about what the enemy was going to do to him. He spent his time thinking about what he was going to do to them.

We are all willing victims of the SCLM who has drummed into our heads, and I do mean drummed--beat, beat, beat, constantly, beat, beat, beat, for 3 years now--that aWol is unbeatable.

All they have right now is showing how very diligent and vigilant they are as sex police. Hammering on gay marriage, Janet Jackson's tit (the Horror!), and John Kerry maybe committed adultery. Puleeeezzze. The American public didn't buy this as important when there was peace and prosperity. They sure as hell aren't going to be impressed with Repug values with all the threats we face now.

What I like about John Kerry is that I know he is tough. Not strutting tough like Bush, but tough in character, and he has been for 4 decades at least. He knows how to stand up to enemy fire and fight back, he's smart, and I trust him more than any of the other candidates not to be rocked back on the defensive by all this bull shit. There were many reasons I did not like and distrusted Lieberman, but at its core, I didn't like him because he was such a pansy. The Repugs know this is combat, they have been fighting like that for decades, and we keep treating this like a salon discussion. I hope Kerry gets the nomination, because he knows war when he sees it, he knows how to fight, and he knows how to fight with courage.

[RetroLounge]

84. If I may (sorta) quote a certain Press Secretary

Hey, It's politics, get used to it...

Or does that only apply to Dean?

:eyes:

[edzontar]

85. And while we have you, Will--has Kucinich dropped out?

And endorsed Kerry?

If not, why is his Press Secretary here supporting Kerry and dissing Dean?

Seems a weird strategy, to put it mildly...

[Snivi Yllom]

86. strange it's not on the schedule listed here:

W A S H I N G T O N, Feb. 13—
TODAY SCHEDULE AS OF 9:00 am (all times ET):


— 7:30 am: Sen. John Kerry calls into MSNBC's "Imus in the Morning"
— 9:20 am: Off-camera gaggle by White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan
— 9:45 am: Sen. John Edwards attends a roundtable at the Smith Steel Workers Hall, Milwaukee, Wis.
— 10:00 am: President Bush meets with a Delegation of Governors returned from Iraq, the White House
— 10:00 am: ABC's Cokie Roberts moderates a Glamour Magazine event with Liz Cheney, Catherine Edwards, Vanessa and Alexandra Kerry, Rebecca Lieberman and Corinne Quayle, New York, N.Y.
— 10:00 am: Gov. Howard Dean tours the Anibas Family Farm, Eau Claire, Wis.
— 10:00 am: Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle and Sens. Bob Graham and Ron Wyden speak to the press about President Bush's 2005 budget for veterans, Washington, D.C.
— 10:00 am: The National Press Club hosts a roundtable discussion about Sen. Kerry's ability to beat President Bush featuring Joe Lockhart, Scott Reed, Charlie Cook and Stu Rothenberg, Washington, D.C.
— 10:30 am: Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack speaks about the economy at Georgetown University, Washington, D.C.
— 11:30 am: Sen. Kerry receives the endorsement of Gen. Wesley Clark at the Armory and Gymnasium, Madison, Wis.
— 11:30 am: Gov. Dean attends a rally at the State Theater, Eau Claire, Wis.
— 12:00 pm: Sen. John Kerry attends a forum with Gov. Jim Doyle at the Alliant Energy Center, Madison, Wis.
— 12:15 pm: On-camera press briefing by Press Secretary McClellan
— 1:00 pm: Politics Live on abcnews.com and AOL
— 1:45 pm: President Bush participates in a conversation on choosing schools, Washington, D.C.
— 3:00 pm: Gov. Dean holds a roundtable discussion at Lake Shore Technical College, Cleveland, Wis.
— 6:00 pm: RNC Chairman CEO Bill Harris addresses members of the Pan Asian American Leadership Caucus, New York, N.Y.
— 6:45 pm: Gov. Dean attends a fish fry at American Servian Memorial Hall, Milwaukee, Wis.
— 11:00 pm: Sen. Kerry attends a rally at Valley High School, Las Vegas, Nev.
— 11:30 pm: Sen. Edwards appears on NBC's Tonight Show with Jay Leno, Los Angeles, Calif.

[WilliamPitt]

88. Where have I dissed Dean

No Kucinich has not dropped out. As for 'supporting' Kerry, Kucinich today slapped down this shit story in California, refused to even consider it worthwhile for discussion when asked, and continued to discuss the issues.

Take a lesson from that.

[edzontar]

94. The implication of the "voters have spoken" is that Dean etc.

Should drop out.

If so, how does bottom-vote-getter Kucinch factor into the equation?

I am confused by the implications of your rhetoric here.

[WilliamPitt]

96. The voters *have* spoken, and will continue to do so

for the next 40 primaries and 3300 delegates, yet nowhere have I said Dean should drop out. Given who I work for, that would be an indefensible position.

[Walt Starr]

89. Uh Will, this is a primary season. This happens during primary seasons.

At least, that's what I was told by so many DUers when I was upset because my guy was the target of the hit pieces on DU.

:shrug:

[Rich Hunt]

91. indeed

I remember a lot of accusations that Dean supporters were whiny crybabies after the 'shameful', 'embarrassing' scream, which turned out to not be quite what the media made it out to be.

Trust must be cultivated and earned.

[stickdog]

93. Luckily, you and Dennis Kucinich are good team players.

All for one and one for war.

[littlejoe]

95. No one is better at beating dems than dems. This is the way

it has been all of my life. (47 years) It needs to change this year. If ever there was a time we needed to become unified, it is now. Anyone who thinks Bush is going to play nice with his more than 200 million dollar war chest needs to get out of the way. There are few times when you actually can have your opponent on the run. If we don't take advantage of this time it will be a regrettable mistake.

[Walt Starr]

97. I guess maybe somebody should have thought about that before Dean became

a piunching bag around here?

:shrug:

[nightperson]

98. Right. If you don't plan on helping out

it is long, long past time you got out of the way.

[mzmolly]

99. *quote* "Quit crying in your teacup" *un-quote*

:hi:

[genius]

100. Thank you. Great post.

I understand that on some of the Democrats.com groups the moderators are requiring people to post something positive about any candidate who is the subject of any negative story they post about that candidate. I don't know about the group in your state. The CLG-Dems-only group seems to be pretty positive.

From what I can see, the negative postings dramatically outweigh the positive here. I hope the situation improves.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

105. Some of us want DEMOCRACY, not just a Democrat. It really matters. n/t

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

106. *Yawn*

Oy, we have to have another one of these posts? "Shame on us, how sinful we all are for fighting amongst ourselves."