Health care: Obama avoids the tough choice & uses Republican talking points against Hillary

[Karmadillo]

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011392.php

Rudy and Obama Engage In Health Care Flim-Flammery

<edit>

Obama touted his health care plan today as being superior to Edwards’ and Clinton’s on cost containment. Yet even though his cost containment proposals are largely the same as Clinton’s, Obama has yet to explain how his plan does a better job when it leaves millions of adults without insurance, thereby shifting the cost of their unfunded eventual and emergency care onto the backs of those of us who are insured, making our health care premiums costlier than they need be. By undermining the risk pooling advantage behind universal health coverage, Obama engages in the same thing he attacks Hillary for all the time: he avoids the tough choice in order to not risk offending folks.

And then he continues to use GOP talking points against Clinton’s 1993-1994 effort:

The Illinois senator drew a distinction with Clinton on how he would go about pushing a universal health care plan. He routinely gives the New York senator credit for trying to overhaul health care as first lady, but says it failed largely because she was too secretive.

"What I am convinced of is if we actually hope to pass universal health care this time around we have to bring Republicans and Democrats together," said Obama. "We have to have an open and transparent process so that the American people participate in the debate and see exactly what we're doing."

As I have indicated previously, this is another lie which overlooks the fact that even before Hillary’s task force got deep into the process, the effort faced significant challenges that year. Democrats in Congress were split on the matter. More importantly, the GOP; its allies in the affected industries on K Street; the National Federation of Independent Businesses; and the US Chamber of Commerce plotted to kill any chance for universal health care in 2004, in order to deny the Democrats a valuable political trophy for the midterm elections. Yet Obama continues to blame Hillary totally for the failure, never mentioning the political environment that was stacked against the White House in that session.

more...

[Mythsaje]

1. My primary criticism of Obama has always been

I don't think he grasps how dirty the Republicans will fight.

:shrug:

But he'll learn, particularly if he wins the nomination.

[sandnsea]

2. Hillary's plan is unaffordable mandates

People who don't have the money to pay those mandates understand this. Those are the people who will pay attention if Hillary tries to pass mandated insurance before people have an opportunity to use the actual health care plan. Health insurance mandates will no more provide full coverage than car insurance mandates. People need help paying for health coverage. That has to come first. Obama is exactly right.

[aquart]

5. Yup. It sucks.

Congress will have to get off its entitled ass and come up with something better. They will have TWO YEARS, not a day more.

[cuke]

25. How can we have UNIVERSAL health care without mandates?

People like to criticize, but I have yet to hear anyone opposed to mandates explain how to get UNIVERSAL health care without any mandates. Even single payer has a mandate.

[eridani]

31. A requirement to pay taxes is pretty different from a requirement to subsidize--

--the same private corporations that take our money and deny us care right now.

[ClarkUSA]

15. Yes, Obama is exactly right.

Cinton's plan is unaffordable for Americans already struggling to pay the bills. The thought of mandated coverage must have insurance companies
salivating. No wonder she receives more lobbyist $$$ than any of the candidates, either Republican and Democratic.

"Lobbyists are people, too." ~ Hillary Clinton, Yearly Kos 2007

[Andromeda]

3. That's what I don't like about him.

Obama disgusts me for that reason. Everything Obama uses against Hillary is right out of the Republican playbook.

I don't know how anybody could support such unethical conduct from a candidate who calls himself the harbinger of "hope."

Hillary has to step up a little more aggressively to fight against this smear campaign of Obama's--- and John Edwards's.

Edwards and Obama are so desperate to win they will say anything to knock Hillary down. I hope it backfires in their faces!

[ClarkUSA]

6. Hillary sounded like the Club For Growth candidate when she used GOP talking points in Las Vegas

Saying that Obama's plan would "be a trillion dollar middle-class tax increase" was not only a lie but the framing was pure Republican
drivel designed to please Big Business and manipulate opinion dishonestly in the time-honored Clintonian way.

Now that's only one reason why Clinton disgusts me. Everything Clinton uses against Obama is right out of the Republican handbook,
right down to feeding stories to Drudge, planting stories with Bob Novak, accepting campaign contributions from Rupert Murdoch,
and accepting more lobbyist money than all candidates, Republican or Democrat, voting like a Bush-Cheney Republican on IWR and
Kyl-Lieberman, and generally going back to her roots as a Goldwater Republican aka. DLC Democrat.

I don't know how anybody could support such unethical conduct from a candidate who calls herself "ready to fight for YOU" when
it's obvious she's sold her political soul to the highest contributor and AIPAC.

Hillaryworld is so desperate to win that they'll say and do anything to knock Obama and Edwards down. It's great that it's backfiring
in their faces here at DU and in Iowa!

[Bitwit1234]

8. Think Progress not a big fan of Hillary

Decidedly said that, when they had the big Health Care summit in Las Vegas, Hillary Clinton's plan was far and above Edwards and Obama. That Obama had disappointed them, because his plan solved nothing.

But then if he had presented a band aid the Obama supporters would have said he was the second coming of Christ. Instead of really posting and given the information about what he is doing, what he says and why, all the do is bash Hillary Clinton. Guess that's what they have to do, since they have nothing to post about what Obama does.

[ClarkUSA]

12. Says who? You?

Think Progress' top front page guy left to join Hillaryworld's campaign early this year.

[cuke]

26. Even in this thread, Obama supporters can't defend his plan

All they can do is attack Hillary, as if that will make Obama's plan any better

[Andromeda]

10. Just like I said: Obama is desperate....

He'll say and do anything to win.

Try backing up your accusations with facts and not spin. The American people aren't stupid and they'll realize that Hillary is the only candidate with substance who can deliver and not just make empty promises.

[ClarkUSA]

11. Try backing up your accusations with facts not spin. You never do.

Because that's all you're good at.

[creeksneakers2]

14. Hillary didn't feed Bob Novak

or plant stories on Drudge.

[ClarkUSA]

16. According to a top Democratic operative, she did try to swift boat Obama

And to my knowledge, she's never denounced Novak for lying. Hmmm.... interesting. If I were innocent, I'd certainly
want to clear my name. So far, she's never even issued a personal statement of condemnation -- unlike Obama.
Hmmm... interesting.

Everyone but you knows that Hillaryworld has indeed been planting stories with Drudge:

NYT: Clinton Finds Way to Play Along With Drudge
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/22/us/politics/22drudge.html

[creeksneakers2]

17. Even if you are foolish enough to believe Novak

Novak reported the rumor that Hillary DIDN'T use lethal dirt against Obama. Hillary condemned the story and Novak.

Drudge ran Hillary campaign announcements. Nothing was "planted." Planted means secret and the relationship is not secret. All campaigns send out press releases to both friendly and unfriendly media.

Please stick to the facts.

[ClarkUSA]

22. I'm not foolish enough to believe Hillaryworld - besides when did Clinton say he was lying?

I must have missed that.

Novak reported a Clintonian whispering campaign which would have made it hard for Obama to deny since you can't prove a negative.
But Hillaryworld didn't count on Obama smacking them down - WHAP!! - and they sure backpeddled fast, churning out two non-denial
denials before settling on a blanket apology.

You can spin the Clinton-Drudge story pipeline all you want -- as for "campaign announcements," did you also know that the day
after the Las Vegas debate, they planted a story on Drudge trashing Tim Russert. It didn't get much play because the MSM was repulsed
by the Clintonian tactics of personal destruction.

Clinton-Drudge Backscratch Pact Intact

Can Hillary Clinton's campaign strategists be shamed into laying off their heavy-handed manipulation of the press? Apparently not.

http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/mixed-media/2007/11/13/clinton-drudge-backscratch-pact-intact

It's sad to see so many Democrats who decried Bush/Rove media tactics now turn themselves inside out to hypocritically applaud identical
Clinton/Penn media tactics. Some in the liberal/progressive netroot community lack so much true moral and ethical principle that they
end up echoing the mob mentality "right or wrong" instincts of the worst of Bush-Cheney Republicans. I see it every day at DU from
Hillaryworlders. Well, I guess we all know which groups REALLY are against Rovian media tactics, don't we? And it ain't the Clintonians.

[creeksneakers2]

23. You should not deduce anything at all

You cannot determine that because you haven't heard of a Clinton denial none was given.

Clinton camp fires back over column
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/17/AR2007111701228.html

You cannot deduce that an accusation is true because the Clintons don't deny it. The Clintons are victims of thousands of false accusations. They have experts who decide the best way to handle the ones that get big enough to even look at. Sometimes the best approach is to ignore something.

Novak said nothing about a whispering campaign. That's just made up.

Hillary gave clear denials to Novak's story and she never apologized. Where do you come up with this stuff?

Hillary didn't plant a story on Drudge about Russert. Russert asked his friend on the Clinton campaign what the campaign thought of Russert and she responded. Nothing planted there. Russert was way over the line during that debate and its not "trashing Tim Russert" to point that out.
The story about how Russert treated Hillary didn't get much play because telling it would be defending Hillary, which the mainstream press almost never does. They do protect their own like Russert.

Pointing out Russert's bias is not "the politics of personal destruction."

The link you gave links to an article in the New Republic about Clinton strong arming of the press corp following her. It also says that the Clinton camp doesn't lie or cross other lines like Bush. All campaigns use favoritism to get reporters to write better stories. All of them call up publishers to complain about unfavorable articles.

I don't approve of Clinton refusing to take questions. I'm not, nor have I seen anyone else turn "themselves inside out to hypocritically applaud identical Clinton/Penn media tactics."

[ClarkUSA]

30. Hillary never personally denied the story nor did Hillaryworld accuse Novak of lying.

Hmmm..... why not?

[silverojo]

7. My, how pissy the Hillary-bots become

Whenever somebody rightfully points out the flaws in her proposals.

It's not a "smear campaign" to do this. A smear campaign attacks the PERSON. Obama and Edwards are attacking the POLICIES.

If widdle Hilly-willy can't take the heat, she should get the hell out of the kitchen--and take her whiny supporters with her.

[cuke]

27. Why can't Obama supporters point out the BENEFITS of Obama's plan?

I guess there must be none. Not one Obama supporter has posted these benefits. All they can do is attack Hillary

[Imagevision]

20. Obama, it's all about a new change in the way government is run, something

Hillary remains the same on her ways to run government. Hillary says; "elect me and I'll end the war in Iraq" only to be clarified months later stating it wouldn't happen until the end of her first term in office.

[cuke]

28. How is Obama going to change the way govt is run?

promises of glittering generalities is for dupes. Where's the beef, Obama?

[ClarkUSA]

4. The Left Coaster endorsed Clinton so of course he's churning out hit pieces for Mark Penn

Hillaryworlders keep posting the work of Penn's blogger mouthpieces. What's next for tomorrow, something by Daily Howler or Taylor Marsh?

[wyldwolf]

9. when?

[ClarkUSA]

13. In July... read the following press release.

Steve Soto of The Left Coaster Endorses Hillary
by Crystal Patterson in News7/25/2007 1:05 PM

Steve Soto, who writes for - and founded - the The Left Coaster blog and is a prominent voice in the progressive blogosphere, endorsed Hillary today...

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/blog/view/?id=10698

[zulchzulu]

18. So is truth about Hillary's failures and many flip flops on issues "Republican talking points"?

Talk about shallow excuses.

Indeed, what other Democratic candidates are saying now about Hillary's flawed candidacy and record would certainly BE Republican talking points if she is the nominee.

Did Hillary's chance at health care reform in 1993 fail or not? IT FAILED! Is it her fault? IT FAILED! Should we bring up that issue when she says that she has experience like trying to get health car reform? IT FAILED!

Is reality a "Republican talking point"?

[Skip Intro]

19. He's full of doubletalk. Who's writing his stuff, Novak?

The more I hear of him, the less I like him.

[Imagevision]

21. So far I'n convinced that Obama is the man with the plan...

[cuke]

29. So what's the plan?

I'm still waiting to hear the details. So far, all I've gotten is that it has something to do with hope

[eridani]

32. The details are nothing but bullshit bandaid stuff n/t

[cuke]

24. Sen Byrd killed UHC in 1993 and DUers don't care

when he decided that the plan could not be included in the budget. This meant that the plan needed a filibuster proof 60 votes to pass, instead of a mere 50.