So, what if a candidate said, "vote for me and I'll have all the troops home

[babylonsister]

within 60 days"? Would you believe them? :popcorn:

Someone said that today, and it made me reel. Is that at all realistic?

And yes, it was Hillary and her new talking points.

[RC]

1. Hillary and her handlers must have seen some writing on a wall somewhere.

Tick-tock, flip-flop.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

2. "Flip flop" will be reincarnated for 2008 if she's the nom

"She was before the war before she was against it. How can we trust her?"

[Infinite Hope]

58. Flip-Flop? I don't know that's the right name for it. She makes John Kerry look like a statue!...

John Kerry may have flip-flopped on an issue or two. Hillary's having seizures!

[Hekate]

3. I'd take it with a grain of salt. I don't see how it can be done. Besides, consider the source.

:popcorn:

Hekate

[ingac70]

4. From one of assholes that voted...

to put us in this situation. That's rich...

She is getting desperate if she said some stuff like that!

[demnan]

5. That was so extraordinary

We must all remember, any of these candidates are going to say anything now to us to persuade us. We must make sure we keep and eye on their voting records and hold their feet to the fire if we do support them.

That means any candidate.

[Sparkly]

6. She did not say that.

Where'd you get that?

[babylonsister]

7. I heard her say that on CSPAN this afternoon.

Yes, she did say that.

[Sparkly]

23. No, she did not say that.

She said she would order a plan for withdrawal immediately, and the withdrawal could BEGIN within 60 days.

[KennedyGuy]

8. So..You're not for this?

[babylonsister]

9. It's an impossibility. nt

[KennedyGuy]

10. I'd support anyone who would try

[babylonsister]

13. I'd support someone I can trust who won't feed me lies there's no

possibility of accomplishing.

[Sparkly]

26. Talk about feeding lies...

Whoever we may support, we should not be lying about other candidates. I defend her because she's the only one who gets this constant assault of half-truths, assumptions and lies. It really reminds me of what the rightwing spent so much time and energy doing to Gore (and for that matter, to her).

[babylonsister]

49. Sparkly, I don't lie and I resent you implying that. nt

[Sparkly]

51. My apologies.

Benefit of the doubt: you inadvertently posted an untruth as fact. Fair?

[Sparkly]

67. How about asking the mods to lock this now? nt

[CarbonDate]

15. Or brazenly lie to win a few more votes?

Yes, if she said that, she's lying. Or she was lying before, when she said there was no way she could guarantee to have the troops out within the first four years of her administration. Suddenly she loses Iowa, and she can guarantee 60 days? What a bunch of typical Clinton bullshit. Her first estimate is probably more realistic. Even if you start the process of withdrawing troops today, it would take a few years to complete. The important thing is to *start the process*.

I'm flabbergasted by this. This is brazen, even by Clinton standards.

[libbygurl]

27. Better check the facts first before declaring your opinion, methinks. See post no. 23. nt

[fenriswolf]

11. ill tell you this

it took me three months from when i was in service to go from fort campbell to a container ship with our equipment to kawait where we deployed to the heart of iraq. that includes my entire division (101st) and thats saying alot, if we were able to handoff what little we actually do for the infrastructure to a non interested global coalition (red cross, amnesty int, UN, etc) we could be out in six months easy, equipment and all. Its not the implementation its the whole, well if we leave such and such might happen, don't believe the hype. Is it a coicidance that americans have a military base on every continent? that everywhere we go we have to have our fingers in the pie, the falshood of staying in iraq in any fashion is just that, we don't need to its a lie.

[Andy823]

12. Some people will say anything

To get elected. That's why I like Edwards, he is not trying to pull punches, and he is honest with the people of this country!

[Occam Bandage]

14. I wouldn't believe them, no. It's an admirable but unrealistic goal. Six months, perhaps.

[Bitwit1234]

16. If Obama can't show up to vote when they asked to pass that

bill, if he couldn't bother to show up to vote when they wanted more time between deployments, how in the hell could anybody believe it, when he said he'd bring the troops home?? And if you don't believe these statements just go to his voting record in the Congressional record, I've posted it enough times.

[babylonsister]

19. Huh? This is a thread about what Clinton said, but you don't disappoint, do you.

You should start your own thread with that nugget of knowledge. :thumbsup:

[tammywammy]

17. It would sound unrealistic

And I wouldn't believe them.

[MadBadger]

18. Where did she say this?

Im not asking for a link to be a dick, Im just wondering.

[babylonsister]

20. I caught a portion of her speechifying on CSPAN today. nt

[Cha]

21. Wow! Is all I can say..are

her internals saying that New Hampshirians want our Troops home? Otherwise why would this latest chameleon come out?

[babylonsister]

22. I know nothing about internals that I'll mention here,

;-) but I heard her say that. I thought over 50% of the country wanted us out of Iraq? Maybe she's just getting with the program belatedly.

[Sparkly]

25. She has been consistent, and this is not what she said.

She's always said she'd immediately initiate a plan for withdrawal, and the withdrawal could begin within 60 days of her taking office.

[ruggerson]

28. So, you're telling us the OP is not correct

hmmm.

[Sparkly]

29. Exactly -- the OP is not correct. nt

[babylonsister]

30. That's not what I heard, and I don't post lies. Take that as you will, but

I can back up what I heard, posted at 3:24 this afternoon:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3960657&mesg_id=3960745

[Sparkly]

31. I heard the same event, and you heard wrong.

She has said the SAME THING consistently, and this event was no different. I'm sure it's on her website, too.

[Sparkly]

33. Here, from her website:

The most important part of Hillary's plan is the first: to end our military engagement in Iraq's civil war and immediately start bringing our troops home. As president, one of Hillary's first official actions would be to convene the Joint Chiefs of Staff, her Secretary of Defense, and her National Security Council. She would direct them to draw up a clear, viable plan to bring our troops home starting with the first 60 days of her Administration. She would also direct the Department of Defense and the Department of Veterans Affairs to prepare a comprehensive plan to provide the highest quality health care and benefits to every service member -- including every member of the National Guard and Reserves -- and their families.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/iraq/

[ruggerson]

38. So in other words she said she would START bringing them home within sixty days

which is the same thing she's been saying for over a year now.

[Sparkly]

40. Exactly.

Nice to see someone else familiar with her position, whether you agree with it or not.

[ruggerson]

34. Could you possibly have misinterpreted what she said?

Had she said that she could have all the troops home in sixty days, I would imagine it would already be a huge headline on Drudge with a picture of her looking bug-eyed and his sirens going.

But that isn't happening.

[Sparkly]

39. If people were familiar with what her ACTUAL positions are...

...half the crap said about her on here wouldn't be said, or at least wouldn't be believed.

This is what's frustrating. Everybody's "heard" things about her and has this "common wisdom," but nobody seems to realize her policy proposals are really not significantly different from Edwards' or Obama's.

You don't have to vote for her, but for cryin' out loud it'd be nice if people stopped villifying her the way the rightwing has for 15 years.

[Cameron27]

70. If people were familiar with what her ACTUAL positions are...

they'd still post distortions and smears about them. Beat them down today, and face them again tomorrow.

[Cha]

41. Maybe hillary got enthusiastically,

confused about exactly what she's promised.

[babylonsister]

45. That could be. I was astounded when I heard what came out of her

mouth.

[Sparkly]

46. I don't know what went into your ears, but it didn't come out of her mouth. nt

[Cha]

55. As you know it doesn't

matter to me what comes outta her mouth..cause I don't trust her anymore since she turned her back on me and my friends here in New York. And now she and her surrogates are trying to smear Obama with being weak on Pro Choice Issues when he's gotten 100% ratings from Illinois Planned Parenthood Council on his support of abortion rights, family planning services, and health insurances coverages for female contraceptives.

And buzzflash states that.."hillary, this is something we'd expect from karl rove". http://www.buzzflash.com/

[Anouka]

36. I thought CW said that it takes at least 15 months

for a real withdrawal to even begin to be planned for and carried out. What exactly is being prepped in the 60 days that she's talking about?

[Sparkly]

42. A plan from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Secretary of Defense, and National Security Council

The plan and start of withdrawal could start in 60 days; the entire withdrawal would, of course, take longer.

[Cha]

37. hillary is my senator and she's

been Consistantly supporting bushit for 5 years. And, now she's trying to distant her funky self from him for the Democrats in Causus States.

[ruggerson]

24. I guess this will be on the news shortly

because it's a huge flip flop, if you heard it correctly.

[Anouka]

32. Hell NO LOL damn talk about pandering

that's as bad as Richardson talking about stopping the war and having troops start coming home the very night of his inauguration.

unless hillary has been pulling an extended October Surprise all this time... that's just nuttery to claim that, even if it's not what people want to hear.

[Sparkly]

35. It's not true. She never said this. nt

[ruggerson]

43. Babylonsister, is there a possibility you misheard this?

Some here seem to think you did.

I for one would like to know whether Hillary would actually flip flop like that.

[Sparkly]

44. Of course she did. It's ridiculous on its face. nt

[babylonsister]

47. Exactly, which is why it caught my attention. nt

[babylonsister]

48. As noted above, after I heard this I posted what I heard. I don't

think I heard incorrectly. Maybe in the excitement of the event she misspoke. And sure, it's possible, but I don't think so. I've been consciously trying to not put any candidates down, but I was shocked.

[Sparkly]

50. Tell you what -- IF she said this, she misspoke.

If you hear any candidate say something that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, I think we can safely assume they misspoke. (Unless they are a Republican.)

[medicswife]

52. It can't be done.

It takes enormous resources to deploy and redeploy a Brigade of troops which is why here at Ft. Campbell, they go basically one Battalion at a time. There is all of their equipment to consider, plus all of the men and women themselves.

60 days is a fallacy. If it did happen, it would be very willy nilly in my opinion.

[Sparkly]

54. She would begin bringing them home within 60 days, not complete it. nt

[medicswife]

60. Is that what she said? Ok, that is way more reasonable. n/t

[babylonsister]

57. Agreed. That's why I was shocked to hear that. nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. I don't believe her but yes, I think it is realistic

[Infinite Hope]

56. OMG! She'll lose points doing that lol. Nobody will believe her anymore. n/t

[Sparkly]

59. Her position is that she would BEGIN withdrawal within 60 days.

I heard the event, and from what I heard she was consistent in her position.

[Infinite Hope]

63. She's never said she'll take them all out; she has said most of them. n/t

[Sparkly]

65. She would completely disengage from the civil war in Iraq.

Like Obama and Edwards, she would keep some level of troops ready to take action against Al Qaeda if necessary.

[Infinite Hope]

75. "she would keep some level of troops" Exactly. Which contradicts "will bring all troops home" n/t

[Sparkly]

76. Like the other candidates -- all the troops who are engaged in the current conflict.

It was her clarity about 'combat troops' that started the meme that she wants to continue the war. The others have been more vague about keeping troops there, but they too would keep forces in Iraq or closeby in the region (and I think they'd have some guarding the embassy as well).

[madrchsod]

61. no---- there is no way we could pull out the troops in 60 days

if we did so iraq would turn into an even bigger disaster than it is now. the solution to our withdraw time table will be to rely on the nations of the area and the iraqi government to stabilize the country while we leave.

[Sparkly]

62. Her position is that she would BEGIN withdrawal within 60 days.

And that's what I heard her say at this event.

[madrchsod]

72. even at that it would be unrealistic--unless ...

like i said there would have to a regional and local effort to stabilize iraq before we began to withdraw. i think every democratic candidates understands our responsibility to use diplomacy to solve the dilemma of iraq

[Sparkly]

74. You can read her position.

I think she, Edwards and Obama all have similar stances on this:

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/iraq/

[JeanGrey]

64. Hillary is in free fall and she is now willing to say

anything (and probably do just about anything) to stem that fall. She's lying. No one could do it.

[Sparkly]

66. Her position is that she would BEGIN withdrawal within 60 days.

I heard this event, and I believe she was consistent with what she's always said on this.

[JeanGrey]

71. I'm sorry to even say to "begin" is disingenous.

The situation is much to iffy to make that kind of promise.

[Sparkly]

73. She doesn't promise -- she says "I have no reason to think it can't be done within 60 days"

or something like that.

She calls for an immediate start of a plan, to be implemented within 60 days. I think that can be done -- hell, we invaded Afghanistan with less planning!

[JeanGrey]

80. Ah, the old Clinton response - "I have no reason to think"

this stuff is so old it is moldy.

[Rockholm]

68. Logistically impossible.

[Sparkly]

69. Her position is that she would BEGIN withdrawal within 60 days.

And that's what I heard her say, again, during this event.

[Rockholm]

81. And that is a good thing.

Her statement makes perfect sense.

[Sparkly]

77. I'm going to go watch the debate.

Gee, this was fun. :eyes:

[90-percent]

78. Vote for me....

Vote for me and I'll prosecute all the criminals that have ever worked in the Bush White House.

The one that says that has my vote and my enthusiastic support.

-90% Jimmy

[AtomicKitten]

79. Zogby said on WJ that the RW ideologues (neocons)

want Hillary to win (12/30/07 Washington Journal first guest).

Yeah war!

[Zorra]

82. Kucinich could pull that off. n/t

[JVS]

83. Well at that point we consider the credibility of the statement in light of the candidate's other...

statements and actions involving deployment of the military. The candidate with the greatest level of credibility on the issue gets my support