ABC's Rick Klein: Clinton, Romney fail to score

[Colobo]

ABC News' Rick Klein Reports: The two candidates with the most riding on New Hampshire lost the most ground when the stakes were highest Saturday night.

Before a national television audience in ABC -- and in the only major marking point between Iowa and New Hampshire -- former governor Mitt Romney, R-Mass., and Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., did nothing to slow the momentum of the candidates who at this moment pose the biggest threats to their candidacies.

Romney discovered the backlash of all those attacks he's been leveling. The man who soared above the field in early exchanges was suddenly under siege -- and found himself outflanked by Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., who appears to be on a glide path to winning New Hampshire for a second time. It hardly mattered that Iowa's winner, former governor Mike Huckabee, R-Ark., was a non-entity on stage.

And Clinton had one of those debate moments that campaign consultants have nightmares about. She looked as frustrated and beleaguered as she no doubt feels at this moment, defending herself with an indignity that suggested a level of confusion about why she's no longer the campaign frontrunner.

"I want to make change but I've already made change," she said. "I'm not just running on a promise of change -- I'm running on 35 years of change."

She's right -- and she pointed out Obama's inconsistencies with a fervor that suggests an eager student who's read all the books. But those charges -- while certain to be developed in news coverage in the days to come -- were lost in their own haze Saturday night, amid Obama's elevation and former senator John Edwards' passion.

Obama's "working majority for change" gives voters something to believe in and cast ballots for. Clinton has the nugget of an effective argument, in making her experience about change, but it's getting late to develop it into something that stands in contrast to what Obama is offering.

Both Romney and Clinton know that a loss in New Hampshire would be devastating. They had an evening to change the dynamics in the tightest of windows between the first two contests. But the evening passed with their opponents' momentum intact.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/01/clinton-romney.html

[aquart]

1. "An eager student who's read all the books." STUDENT????

He's verbally positioning her as a child trying to impress the grownups. Well, ain't he sweet for a sexist pig.

[HeraldSquare212]

3. I understand him to be suggesting she memorized briefing books nt

[HeraldSquare212]

7. and, by the way, I didn't have the same impression of her performance that he has

[MadBadger]

4. There you go again

Everything is sexist with you people.

[aquart]

18. "You people"?

Who would that be, exactly? And I'm not surprised a Biden supporter would be unable to see sexism in action.

[geek tragedy]

42. So now people are sexist if they support Joe Biden?

Grape or cherry Kool-Aid?

[Joe the Revelator]

8. Is this the new strategy. Nothing can be said about Hillary because it may be misconstrued into

misogyny? Did you see how this hurt her the first time she fucked up in the debates?

[aquart]

20. Oh, we must never mention what's happening.

That way you can get away with it with a smile. Uncomfortable accusation? Go ask your "messiah" how to handle it.

You sound like the Republicans claiming to be victims of the Democrats.

[Joe the Revelator]

22. Nobody is trying to stifle debate aside from the DU Hillary folks

Why don't you put out a list of things we can attack Hillary on that will not get the dreaded "You're A Sexist!!" tag on them?

[aquart]

26. "Dreaded"?

Now why does THAT make you so upset? And please don't tell me, for my own good, that it will hurt Hillary.

[Azathoth]

19. Here comes the 'sexist' argument again

:eyes:

[aquart]

21. Dismissive, ain't you?

Remind me to be impressed by that.

[Azathoth]

25. Arguments lose their effectiveness when they get trotted out in response to every criticism

Think Rudy screaming "9/11" every time someone asks him a question about anything.

Every time some cuts down on Hillary, the "sexist" label starts getting thrown around. It's like clockwork.

[aquart]

28. I note how you avoid touching upon whether it's true.

Truth being no issue with you. Because something can't be true more than once?

[Azathoth]

32. OK, it's a tired, cookie-cutter argument AND it isn't true

Hillary is doing extraordinary damage to the feminist cause by attempting to base her entire campaign on her husband's credentials. Her supporters trotting out the 'sexist pig' argument in response to every criticism of their candidate just makes it worse.

[aquart]

39. "Her husband's credentials"?

Because she was baking cookies for 35 years? What a sick, deliberately demeaning lie.

And how nice of you to threaten "the feminist cause" if we don't meekly allow any distortion or lie to go unchallenged. Heaven forfend you have to account for yourselves.

"Hillary haters" are beyond belief in their lies and smears. Beyond any rational explanation EXCEPT sexism. But I understand perfectly why you can't see it. And why you don't want it discussed.

[Azathoth]

41. Well, there it is: "If you don't like Hillary, you're sexist"

Thank you for making my point.

And yes, Hillary is running on her HUSBAND's accomplishments and credentials. Everything is "when we balanced the budget, when we did that..." She'd like us to believe she was some sort of co-president, despite the fact that during much of her "35 years of experience", her official duties involved going on goodwill trips with the likes of Sheryl Crow and Sinbad the comedian (ie. her 'daring' mission to Bosnia), promoting benign social issues like breast cancer awareness, and picking out the White House china. Her entire argument is: "If you want my husband and his policy team back, vote for me!"

[Occam Bandage]

24. Sheesh.

:eyes:

[roguevalley]

52. I disagree. She is an eager student and she has read the books.

So have all of us who care. Stating that isn't sexist. Its accurate.IMHO.

[Purveyor]

2. 'Clinton had one of those debate moments that campaign consultants have nightmares about'

I called it when I saw it. This will be the mornings 'soundbite' from the DEM debate..."Hillary's meltdown".

[David Dunham]

6. Hillary was fine. Obama was far too vague and meandering

[Joe the Revelator]

11. And yet the story is developing into Hillary lost

Thats going to be the story. All the one line posts in the world can't change that.

[aquart]

23. Truth being, as always, irrelevant.

If they can't get her on that, they'll get her on crossing the street. When you are determined to attack, like Bush on Iraq, any excuse will do.

[amandabeech]

12. He could barely stay awake.

Did you see the lines on his face? I thought that his head was going to fall backward, leaving his mouth open for the full buzzsaw effect.

[aquart]

30. How are any of them staying awake?

If we keep making campaigns longer and longer, one day someone's going to drop dead right on the podium. This is an insane physical challenge to our candidates.

Britain limits campaign length to, I think, six weeks. We're bigger. I'll go six months. All inclusive. Make it legal and fine their asses if they jumpstart.

[musicblind]

45. hmm

That actually sounds like a half decent idea! I wonder what others think?

[knowledgeispwr]

14. I thought Obama did well and he gave specifics from time to time...

though overall, I think Edwards won. Clinton did alright, but got a little too defensive at points.

[Yupster]

36. Obama missed the knockout punch though

The last question of the debate.

What was something in a debate that you wished you hadn't said.

Hillary to no one's surprise refused to name an instance.

Then Richardson went and he named listing Whizzer White as a Supreme Court Justice he loved. Good answer.

Then Edwards Named a time he chided Clinton about her attire. Okay answer.

Then it was Obama's turn. Here's what he should have said, the last answer of the debate.

"Bill - that was a great answer, and we all understand that mistake and I've made some just like it. And Jon, I can relate to your error too. I've done that too. So, the thing that I wished I could take back was (insert mistake here). And Hillary, God bless you -- can't you ever just answer a simple straight forward question?

Debate ends.

[earthlover]

13. I don't know about meltdown...but she certainly lost her cool and looked angry and defensived

A male candidate would be castigated as a major goof. But then again, a male candidate cannot blame criticism on sexism, can he?

She almost came undone, and she is actually running for a job that has more pressure than a 4 person debate....

But no meltdown, thankfully. That would have been sad.

[aquart]

38. That's because they WANT her to be president.

Or has that reason not to vote for her been changed?

[loveangelc]

40. me too!

[tularetom]

5. I'm sorry, I just don't understand

WTF is this "35 years of change"? What has she changed in 35 years?

Sounds like she's once again paying too much attention to the MSM bullshit about how the voters want "Change" instead of "experience".

I'll tell ya a "change" I'd like to hear her propose. The change of penis cheney and the boy king from free men to convicted criminals.

[Yael]

9. She is an experienced changer

whatever that means

[earthlover]

16. And she talks about "hard work"....

George Bush used that phrase a lot, I recall....

[dailykoff]

31. yeah wasn't that rich?

is she buying a pig ranch too?

[maddiejoan]

34. Bush used it as an excuse why things weren't done

Hillary uses it correctly --as in She works hard for change --and has been doing it for 35 years.

[ellisonz]

48. Sloganeering is hard work.

Whew I'm tired.

:rofl:

[maddiejoan]

51. Oh please

Obama is Mister Sloganeering himself.

[Hieronymus]

35. Bad choice of words ... maybe her researchers think those terms work...

It was laughable when Bush said it, too.

[ellisonz]

47. The Ole Protestant Work Ethic...

It's an appeal to tradition.

Hollow as it may be!

[sandnsea]

10. I hear she negotiated the Northern Ireland peace agreement

Yeah, I read that somewhere earlier. She hasn't done any of this stuff, it's ludicrous.

[ellisonz]

49. I guess she figured...

George Mitchell was too busy with MLB steroids to notice.

[earthlover]

15. First off, this is deceptive.....no way she has 35 years of experience

But it did seem rather odd beyond that. How can one extoll the virtues of what happened 35 years ago and call that change in today's meaning of the word? She just doesn't get it. Change doesn't mean what you did in 1973.

[aquart]

27. Okay, they're right. I didn't believe them but they're right.

Critical thinking DOES need to be taught in our schools.

[nealmhughes]

33. I understand from her acolytes that several women got into management at the Wal Marts.

That is a {b]gigantic change! Why are you sexist? She tired! She tried on Iraq, someone read her a summary of a summary on the Authorizing Act, but Cheney lied to Condi, see, she tired ... oops ... tried on health care, too.

:sarcasm: Color me never impressed.

Mme. also said that she wanted Ryan White funding to be a thing of the past for ADAP funding and Medicare for all HIV + and the new CDC calls for anti-retrovirals at a CD4 of 350 instead of 200, but we don't see any bills she is ramming through Congress, now do we? She had no problem watching SC's waiting list grow and grow and grow and grow for ADAP while she sat out for no cuts for NY, even though the SE is the epicenter of the HIV crisis now and no longer NY.
Oh, well, since she is such a good changer, let's try changing our hawk position and get some real health care changes around here while we are at it.

[loveangelc]

17. lol...

[annie1]

29. does no article have anything to say about how intelligently she speaks on the issues?...

this is so fucking pathetic. this country can be really pathetic. intellect and grasp of policy mean nothing.

[Beacool]

37. Pathetic is the word!!!

We seem to vote more often than not for style over substance. That's how we ended up with people like Reagan and Shrub. Screw the most capable person, let's just vote for the guy with whom we would like to have a beer.

Beyond pathetic........ :puke:

[Quixote1818]

44. Then we should vote for Richardson because he has 10 times the

accomplishments and experience of Hillary or any of them.

[Quixote1818]

43. She was no more detailed on policy than anyone else was

Please give an example of where she was.

[ellisonz]

50. It's a question of leadership.

[musicblind]

46. facebook

Regarding the Facebook chart. It should be pointed out that most of the people on Facebook are young, and therefore Obama's demographic. The poll above the one you posted said that Ron Paul won the republican debate by an outrageous margin. While I agree with that, that goes to show that the average republican (or in the case of the poll you posted... average democrat) is not represented by the community on Facebook... and pretty much nothing else.