Trial balloon (ducking now): Dean should call for Zell Miller's head

[arendt]

Hey, fractious dems, can we all agree to hate someone
other than loyal Dems??

Here's my proposal:

Howard Dean blazes away at Zell Miller. Demands that
he be thrown out of the party for:

1) saying he will vote for Bush

2) sponsoring the total anti-democratic, if not treasonous
bill that would strip the Federal courts of the right to
intervene if anyone said the magic word "God" or
"Ten Commandments" or "under God". A sixth grader
would never try something so absolutely repulsive to
the Founders of this republic.

Zell Miller is pond scum. The Dems ought to toss him out
of the party. We just had the Mondale (failed) and Lautenberg
(succeeded) last minute Senate runs. I'm sure they could
find someone to run against Miller in the GE.

I'd rather lose Miller's seat with a REAL Dem, than win it
with him. Even if a Rethug wins, we are no worse of than
we are today. And, with a 3-way contest, the GOP would
probably win. Can you imagine the GOP ads: you want an
honest Republican? then vote Zell out of office.

Now, folks who like to complain about how negative us
Dean people are, is this not a positive suggestion? Dean
would be unifying the party, removing a traitor. If Dean's
anger is an "issue", let him use it inside the party, to
clean up the bums on our side of the aisle. Showing some
backbone. Differentiating us from GOP Dominionist
fanatics.

Is there anything wrong with this idea?

arendt

on edit: clarify

[Eloriel]

1. I think Dean has bigger fish to fry than a has-been like Zell

who's not going to run again.

[arendt]

4. Sorry, I missed that he's not running. No wonder he let it all hang out...

Can you nominate someone who is staying in
the party who deserves the same treatment?

Max Baucus?
Tom Daschle?


arendt

[cprise]

2. He should focus on voting rights and media reform

.

[arendt]

7. Won't work. Media control his image, he will just be an "angry" guy...

and the voting rights issue: not only is he angry, he is a loser
who is now a conspiracy theorist.

No, Dean's people can work those issues, but Dean's public
face is Mr. Angry. Once the media puts a label on a non-puke,
they leave that label there.

So, I am trying out the idea that the Dems need some modicum
of party discipline. I am sick of my party being tougher to herd
than housecats. I don't want Tom DeLay, but I want some semblance
of sticking to the party line.

arendt

[cprise]

20. Not necessarily

Not if he is fighting for Kerry, for instance.

And his role could be to provide focus for activists. Let the activists get angry.

[tobius]

3. how can you throw someone out of the party? nt

[arendt]

6. You can strike his name from any Democratic ballot line.

You can keep him from holding office as a party member.

I think the GOP did something like this to David Duke,
who still claims to be a Republican.

arendt

[coloradodem2005]

5. Go Dean!!!!!!!!!!!!

You da man!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[frustrated_lefty]

8. Great idea, wrong focus to retain the national attention

He should start raising hell about Texas law which makes dildos illegal, but permits a death sentence being 'awarded' to retarded individuals. Maybe if Bush had stayed in Crawford long enough, he'd have won too.

Repukes in Texas are primarily pro-life and pro-capital punishment and are mostly gung-ho about Iraq.

These fuckers don't care about life. They care about their right to decide who lives and who dies.

That's a thing deserving of national focus and abhorrence: Texan facsism.

Let's not hate Zell, though he deserves it. Let's hate that poor, sickly womb in Babs which spewed forth this despicable worm of a man we call Dubya.

[arendt]

11. Interesting. Texas Legislature under criminal investigation right now

corrupt assholes, run by storm troopers Delay and Craddick.

I can see Howard:

How can you not be disgusted with the lawlessness of the GOP:

Corrupt governors in CT, IL.
Corrupt state house, redistricting in TX
Memo theft/electronic Watergate in D.C.
Scalia - caught selling his vote two more times.
Bush - liar, liar, liar
Cheney - corrupt Haliburton bagman


Don't tell me DLC Dems cannot use these political issues
without upsetting their corporate backers.

Its the corruption, Stupid.

How can businessmen stand up IN PUBLIC and defend it?
(I know they do it in private, but if we let them do it in public,
we are finished.)

arendt

[frustrated_lefty]

12. I suspect

the very best thing we can do is snatch one of these things like a pitbull and worry it to death. You've seen the media has been more aggressive of late. No doubt they conceive of themselves as sharks in the water, in a frenzy at the first scent of blood.

I tend to think of them as the 'media-monkeys,' they play with any shit they find in their hands.

The Texas redictricting story, in the right light, could torpedo those bastards, indirectly.

One break in the dam reveals corruption upon corruption upon corruption. The monkeys just need the right shit to be handfed to them.

[MR. ELECTABLE]

14. Texas law makes dildos illegal???

No wonder they had to send theirs to Washington.

[frustrated_lefty]

16. Comical enough

but, yeah, they're illegal. But yeehah, we're gonna kill a retard!.

I'm really not making this up, there is publicly accessible documentation.

[frustrated_lefty]

17. Molly Ivins

This claim sounds insane, so I looked for resources. Guess what I found! Molly Ivins among others. The url is http://www.dildodiaries.com

It's not for kids, by any means.

[DerBeppo]

9. political suicide

i'm sure this is exactly what is needed to tell the moderate swing voters that the democratic party is where they should hang their hats.

expelling people from the party for ideological reasons is not the best way to sell the party as inclusive.

[arendt]

10. I think moderate voters would be happy to see Miller and his like thrown..

out.

That way, there would actually be a party for moderates,
instead of a bunch of spineless clowns who let Bush
and Zell Miller walk all over them.

Case in point: Tom Daschle.

This is our highest ranking elected Dem? He is a
jellyfish. He sucks up to Bush every other day. He
saw nothing wrong with not finding the WMDs?

This is our point man?

As a swing voter, I'd be more likely to vote for someone
who actually TAKES A STAND against extremism and
pandering to it.

arendt

[DerBeppo]

13. i don't see it.

consistent with the party or not, miller does take a stand...it's just usually the wrong one. Being inconsistent is not one of his many faults.

any way you slice it, kicking people (or calling for it, at least) out of the party for having different beliefs is not going to play to anyone but those who post on this board.

It would be insane for the dems to kick someone out of the party during an election year that hinges on their ability to define themselves as a better alternative. If they went through something as revolutionary as kicking a conservative member out of the party it would send the wrong signal--not one of idealistic purity (the same political disease that has killed many national campaigns in the past), but one of exclusion.

Imagine the assault from the right that would come from this:

"There are plenty of liberal republicans in our party, but we don't kick them out."

"I guess if you're a democrat, you have to vote lock step to be accepted."

and on, and on.

I know many here think that things like this are what the party needs to regain control, but it really isn't. The only trait people dislike more than arrogance is uncertainty. Expelling members, for any reason shy of gross misrepresentation or criminal activity, is not the sign of a stable and forward thinking party.

Inclusion, big tent, tolerance. We can't claim to have the high ground in these areas if we prove ourselves to be worse than those we attack for not having them.

[fujiyama]

15. Sorry...

This isn't about him being a conservative southern democrat. We have plenty of those including John Breux from LA, and others from conservative states like Max Baucus of Montana, Evan Bayh of Indiana, Tom Daschle of South (or is it North?) Dakota, etc. I personally don't agree with many of their votes, and I'm not especially fond of their records, but I do not want them purged from the party. I also understand they have their own electoral concerns and demands. That's fine.

Zell Miller on the other hand, is a whole other issue. He has made it clear he wants no part of the party. He has endorsed the opposite party's candidate for president. I think if any GOP member made it clear they were voting for Kerry instead of Bush, they would be told to leave the party, or atleast be shunned.

We don't need him, and we really don't have a chance in GA anyways. It's solid red territory and Diebold country. Our party has limited resources, and a little dignity left. I say we use it elsewhere. I hope he doesn't show up at the convention, and if he wants to, I hope he's not allowed.

[DerBeppo]

18. somewhat of a reasonable approach

i agree, some sort of action can be taken without appearing reactionary. The party can back rival dems in his state, they can refuse to give him positions of power within the senate, they can in fact "blackball" him to the point where he's completely alienated within the party. Those are actions that can be taken without appearing exclusionary, yet are still punitive enough to make a point.

excommunication is not palatable to most americans.

[sandnsea]

19. I could even forgive him

If he got rid of Zell Miller.

[farmbo]

21. Good Idea...but do it with humor

Zell Miller, of the self-righteous, holier-than-thou, I'm-the-moral-voice-of- America wing of the "Democratic" Party, needs to be marginalized and expelled from the party. He is beyond rehabilitation.

(It's even quite possible that he will offer a speech at the REPUBLICAN Convention... so time is of the essence!)

But use his self- righteousness and censoriousness against him with a series of light hearted attacks which will, no doubt, bait him into a thunderous, over-the-top defense of his strongly held (read: Republican) beliefs. This will lend him to caricature...as a loud, brutish, bitter old red-neck.

Then, we open up on him from all sides and let the late night yak show comedians take off on him.

Howard Dean, alas, has some expertise in this area. He may be helpful in drumming him out without getting any blood on Kerry's hands.

[arendt]

22. Summarizing feedback: shun with humor, don't excommunicate...

Fine.

We all agree about something. ZM is a POS. And the party can
and should disrespect him.

We activists need to make an example of someone, or the
media will say "those guys are just powerless, angry, losers".
They will transfer the "angry white guy" label from the
beer swilling louts who deserve it to progressive activists.

arendt

[w4rma]

23. Zell is a lame duck. He's not running for reelection.

IMHO, ignore Zell, there are way more important issues to focus a spotlight on:

• BBV vs. Voter-verified paper ballots,
• free vs. fair vs. bilateral trade,
• outsourcing of engineering and accounting positions,
• Bush's failures that need to be addressed and dealt with,
• widening gap between the extremely wealthy and the dwindling middle class,
• etc.