In Case You Missed It

[William769]

"Sen. Obama thinks "it's fair to say that the Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last 10-15 years." During that time period, Republicans sought to privatize Social Security, abolish the minimum wage, give tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans, run up huge deficits, and overturn Roe v. Wade."

[Little Star]

1. He is right. They are the party of ideas. BAD ideas!

[Tellurian]

2. Obama is shamelessly deserting his Party

and cultivating the Republican vote. One wonders why he just didn't register as a Republican running as one, and be done with it. Obama is willfully, singlehandedly splitting the Dem Party.

[William769]

3. The answer to you question is simple.

"One wonders why he just didn't register as a Republican running as one" the majority of them are bigots. Oh wait, never mind.

[Tellurian]

7. So, you think they are just "using" Obama to knock off Hillary?

and dump him in the general? I guess it's possible.

[Maribelle]

14. I don't think - I know.

I know a lot of people in New Hampshire on a personal level. They've told me there was a concerted effort in that state for the "undeclared" republicans to vote for Obama, thinking their votes were not needed for their shoo-in McCain.

But polls just prior to the election showed Hillary far behind and Romney closing in.

Up jumped the devil.

[loudsue]

26. One doesn't wonder after they realize Joe LIEberman is Obama's mentor.

Obama stated that during the Lamont/Lieberman primary battle, when he was supporting LIEberman.

All those DUers who support Obama have no friggin' clue, and probably haven't read his books, and/or they just don't want this country to support the citizens over corporations.

Obama's motto: Let's get in bed with republicans.

[Samantha]

28. Lieberman was also Bill Clinton's mentor

same difference

[Tellurian]

29. When did that happen..I've never heard a whisper of truth in that statement

Bill campaigned for him in the Primary because he was the incumbent running opposed. That is commonplace within the party. Otherwise, it's meaningless. When Lieberman went Indy, he got no support from the Clintons.

[rucky]

4. True. We've been playing defense for at least that long. n/t

[cali]

5. In case you didn't know it, the vast majority of political historians

and analysts say the very same thing. In fact, kos did a nice piece about this and used quotes from "Crashing the Gates" that said what Obama said.

[William769]

6. And so that in this primary season we have seen how it's playing with the Democratic Base.

Some say it's a good thing, some say it's bad thing, but when all is said and done it what matters when the votes are counted.

[Maribelle]

9. "when the votes are counted"

The deomocratic base has polled high for Hillary since the beginning of this primary season. When the other candidates didn't even put a dent in her poll numbers with registered democrats, I heard paid political pundits on the major networks continually touting that the other candidates needed to go negative against her.

Edwards and Obama listened, and did.

I clearly remember during one of the debates when they double-teamed her with nonsense, Richardson spoke out against it. Political pundits then cried out vociferously that Richardson was merely seeking the VP slot.

From my perspective this was when the tide turned.

I am amazed that these same folks now wimper over President Clinton.

[saltpoint]

8. Ah, heck, William. If this Edwards supporter can find strengths and virtues in

Senator Obama, surely you could if you tried.

Fewer than half a dozen of some 300 million U.S. citizens comprise a tiny group among which the next president will be chosen.

He's one of 'em.

[William769]

10. As a Gay man With AIDS.

I highly doubt it.

[saltpoint]

12. I am genuinely sorry for your having contracted AIDS but to be blunt,

I don't think you're being fair using that as a trump card for others' assessment of a candidacy.

I'm sorry you are suffering.

[William769]

13. It's not a trump card, it happens to be my life

With the Donnie MCcklurkin fiasco, now this other asshole thats anti Gay for Obama plus the remarks about Reagan, it's just to much for me.

Thank you for you comment about suffering, but with what I said above, it just adds to the suffering.

[saltpoint]

15. You posted, I responded. We don't have to agree on politics. Or on

candidates.

If you have some money in the cookie jar, maybe order and read GRIEF by Andrew Holleran. I don't think you'll feel it is a waste of your time or attention.

[William769]

16. Was in no way trying to be snarky here, just trying to show where my feelings are coming from.

[saltpoint]

17. I appreciate that.

I will reiterate my recommendation of Holleran's book and will PM with you to pay half your cost for an Amazon order.

The protagonist would impress you, I believe.

[Maribelle]

18. I am having a difficult time understanding this primary season ...

who gets to declare which cards are trump cards?

And whenever is speaking about extremely personal reasons for selecting a particular candidate even using anything? Could you please explain this oddity?

[saltpoint]

19. No, I won't explain it. It's not my job to explain it, Maribelle. I spoke in

defense of Sen. Obama and have spoken in defense of your candidate on these boards as well.

At the moment current polling suggests that one of those two people will be our next presidential nominee, very possibly our next president.

I stand by my claim in my post, and by my respect for someone's suffering as well.

[Maribelle]

20. Well then, my not understanding who gets to declare what is trumps ...

I would add you are totally off base bashing this personal experience as "using that as a trump card".

Sorry.

[saltpoint]

21. That's his decision to render, not yours.

[Maribelle]

23. Sorry- you're the one that decided to call it a trump card.

That was your decision not his.

I merely asked you, paraphrasing, who was allowed to decide which cards were trumps. And, I added that I don't believe relating personal experiences as factors in one's decision making process is playing anything.

[saltpoint]

24. I'll be very open to discussion with William should he wish to take up

my offer on the order.

He has read my posts on DU for some time now as I have read his.

He knows how I interact with people and I respect his viewpoints and insights.

You're missing the red side of a green barn, Maribelle.

[William769]

25. Maribelle, Old Crusoe is sincere in here.

I don't have a problem with what was said. I have known this poster for quite awhile, and am in no way offended, please don't be either.

Billy.

[Maribelle]

11. When Obama said the Republicans were the party of ideas for that period ...

what exactly did he mean?

I believe this is truly an outstanding issue. Did he mean democrats had no ideas during the period, or did mean republicans had the good ideas? What else could he have meant. When President Clinton says "good" ideas, Obama starts crying foul.

[Tom Rinaldo]

22. I think Obama meant in his comments that Republicans primarily set the agenda for political debate

And largely I believe that was true. The problem for me isn't in Obama pointing that out, it is what he then does with that observation. It could equally have been used as a roots call to arms for liberals to reconnect with our deepest values and to promote them proudly rather than forfeit the battle of political visions to Republicans, but Obama does not do that, at least not adequately for me.

To an extent I can understand and accept why he might not want to go there, because in so doing it could muddy his transcendent message about bringing the American people together, but then he should have thought carefully about the the wisdom of bringing Reagan into this at all. Because those comments do not exist in isolation. They were made in the midst of a political campaign in which Barack Obama boldly and openly urged registered Republican voters to change their registration to Democrat, not as a permanent shift into our fold to broaden our party and work together in it, but as a one day tactical move so that they could caucus for him in Nevada to help him become the Democratic Party candidate for president and then change back to being Republicans the next day after.

Even that can be explained of course, but the juxtaposition of the two is unsettling. It lends credence to a suspicion that Obama intentionally was crafting his words about Reagan in a way that would signal to some of Reagan's admirers that there is a Democratic candidate for President who shares much of their positive views about Ronald Reagan, so why not support him in the Democratic Party primaries when doing so can legally be arranged.

To me it looks like hard ball politics being played to win. Some might use the word triangulation. No I do not think Obama is a closet Republican by any stretch of the imagination, but I do entertain the thought that he may try to make some real Republicans hope that it, to an extent, is the case. Hillary Clinton has pretty much been winning the flat out Democratic vote in the primaries and caucuses to date. Obama has needed to appeal to Independents and Republican to give him a winning margin. The Clintons are not the only politicians in this country who attempt to craft intentionally ambiguous messages, but they seem to be the only ones who get attacked for so doing.

[Laurab]

27. William, please stop.

You're getting really pitiful. Can't you extol Hillary's virtues instead?

[OzarkDem]

30. Obama worries me on Social Security

He uses GOP talking points (inaccurate of course) to make it sound as though Social Security is in trouble and needs fixing. Not good.

[ursi]

31. he didn't say whether they had bad or good ideas - just ideas

is Karl Rove posting here?