If Kerry loses the General Election...

[HiramAbiff]

...will you support the complete raizing and rebuilding of the Democratic Party?

The expunging of ALL the current leadership who have failed us for the last 10 years?

We face an unprecedented amount of money on the Republican side. We also face an electroral map that honestly looks hopeless.

If the unthinkable happens, are you finally prepared to place the blame where it is due?

[lastknowngood]

1. I've been ready for over 7 years the DLC/DNC cabala

n/t

[LandOLincoln]

2. On the Repubs and their mean machine, their

endless bucks, their shameless lies, their ruthlessness, their bought & paid for Supremes, & so on ad nauseum?

Damn straight.

[slinkerwink]

3. I would!

[AlinPA]

4. If Kerry lose the G.E., we may never see a democratic USA

again. We are close to a form of nazism now. The media will be completly controlled by the rPIGS and Patriot Act III, IV, V will wipe out basic rights.

[wysi]

5. Indeed.

If * 'wins' the election again, I would suggest that you all consider emigrating immediately, before you are sent to the 're-education' camps. That's an inevitability.

[JohnnyFianna1]

7. If John Kerry loses the nomination....

It'd kill the last bit of centrism within the party. If it did (or even if it didn't) the Democratic Party will be burned to the ground. All leaders will be expunged.

[Hippo_Tron]

14. Chimpy doesn't have the ability to make it that bad...

Two years is not enough time to go from where we are now to Naziism. Not to mention the fact that he won't have enough congressional support to do so.

[blm]

6. No. I'd storm the White House because it will have been STOLEN...again.

Kerry is NOT going to lose.

[PaDUer]

8. Storm the WH

IS going to be the thing to do because they're going to steal it again and again.

[RummyTheDummy]

20. I hope you're right.....

But there are a lot of Dean supporters who are quietley rooting for that to happen. In some cases not so quietly. They want Bush to win b/c they covet the struggle.

[napi21]

23. ARE YOU COMPLETELY NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been a deaniac for over a year, and have known MANY others. ABSOLUTELY there are NO Dean supporters who want Shrub to win! NONE!!!!

I don't know where you come up with this BS.

[RummyTheDummy]

26. They're dying to say I told you so

To validate their belief on what the party SHOULD be. You clearly don't have much of a grasp for human nature.

[mlawson]

9. If Kerry loses the GE, NOTHING will change in the party.

Daschle will go right on being Minority Leader (assuming he wins in SD), and the Party hierarchy will change little. McAuliffe will be sacrificed, but he will be replaced by a lookalike. In 2008, the party establishment will install the nominee of their choice by manipulating the primary schedules, and that person may or may not be able to beat Frist or Jebbie. But, hey, *winning* is NOT at the top of the party's agenda, anyway...

[malachibk]

10. No, I wouldn't support abolishing the party...

...but I would support a full on coup. You with me?

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

11. probably not. Id like to wait a bit.

If the Dems dont pick up any or many seats in the midterms, then it would be time to seriously rethink the party.

[Monte Carlo]

12. THAT is the great fallacy of political parties...

... in democracies. Change is not achieved through exclusion and purges. It's done through inclusion, cooperation, and relationships.

Place blame where blame is due? Why don't I just go jerk off? I'll have more to show for it.

[Hippo_Tron]

13. Hopeless my ass...

Gore states aren't going to Bush because Bush hasn't done anything for them. Kerry only needs 10 more electoral votes to win it all, and I think there is more than one state who has been fucked by Bush's economic policies. Chimpy will be spending money like crazy to try to keep states like Ohio, Arkansas, and WV. But if Kerry looses, I'd support pretty much anything that would restore our majority in congress in 2006.

[library_max]

15. Kinda depends on where the blame ends up being due.

You're presuming a hell of a lot. Not only that Kerry will lose, but that the loss will be fault of the Democratic Party leadership.

You talk about an unprecedented amount of Republican money and a "hopeless" electoral map. Yet you're still prepared to blame it all on the Democratic Party leadership.

What if the left splinters again because of Nader's candidacy? I suppose that'll be the Democratic Party leadership's fault too.

It seems like you are looking for an excuse to crash and burn the Democratic Party no matter what happens on Election Day. If the sun comes up tomorrow morning, will you support the complete razing (sp) and rebuilding of the Democratic Party?

[anti-NAFTA]

16. I'm prepared to

let the Democratic Party go to hell. You bet I am, and I don't give a shit who wins in '08, we'll already be in as bad a situation as possible. If we lose in '04, mark my words: I will not be played again in '08.

[AntiCoup2K4]

17. Some of us have been trying to rebuild the party for months now

And yes, I do believe Kerry will lose the election. And I believe the corporatist Republican infiltrators who call themselves the DLC planned it that way. Their goal all along has been destruction of the Democratic Party from within, and with 8 years of PNAC in the White House (in the form of either Junior or Kerry) that goal will be accomplished.

The only question now is will there be enough Democracy left to rebuild from, or will it take a return to 1776.

[RummyTheDummy]

22. And you kinda HOPE Kerry loses right?

C'mon be honest. Don't be affraid of the flames. I for one would have tremendous respect for supporters of losing canidates who would say what they're feeling for once. That would be truly ballsy.

[JHBowden]

18. If we lose, there won't be much of a Democratic Party.

*We* have the power to take our country back, as another Democrat said. The responsibility is squarely with us.

[TheDonkey]

19. The Democratic Party has for a LONG time had problems winning/money

It's hard being a party that doesn't whore to big business and a very large population of rural voters who want (God, Guns, and no Gays) as the platform.

We need to improve GOTV, and well.... GOTV! Democrats are everywhere but just aren't/can't vote.

[Lexingtonian]

21. not gonna happen

If you do your voter trend math correctly there is nothing 'hopeless' about the electoral map to any Democrat in touch with the social mainstream. The electorate of November 2004 is ~55% socially liberal, ~60% economically moderate-conservative or liberal. (Both have a shift of 3% relative to November 2000.) About 3% will vote Third Party- it's a way of avoiding a decision about the things at stake in the present. We have a 52-45-3 electorate at equal rates of turnout. We can certainly win several Republican states with relatively young and minority and relatively old populations- Nevada, Arizona, New Hampshire, Florida (very close to Election Day).

Money has been losing its efficacy to sway voters. Arguably it only worked to take reactionaries/conservatives out of the Democratic Party to where they more strongly belonged. Money swayed results by ~3% of votes in 1992 and ever less every election to 0.5% (arguably even less) in 2000. The use of money these days is in increasing turnout of people who lean your way.

I haven't seen any 'leaders' emerging who really have anything new to offer- other than inexperience. The efficacy of the few outstanding people in the Party leadership has greatly improved since 2000- they couldn't prevent the others from bringing about the November 2002 blamage or do much about the Right's surge after 9/11/01 (the People will be what it is), and now they finally have an electorate (it was split 49-48-3 in November 2000) in which the Party can get a majority and a mandate. Pelosi, Kerry, and the Clintons are doing quite excellently, if you haven't noticed. Once Daschle is past his next election we'll see a lot better out of him too and MacAuliffe is certainly relieved that the not-very-rational small donors (they weren't there when needed most, that's how the corporate money got its disproportionate importance) are coming back again.

Dean, Gore, Lieberman, and other people who wanted to drastically change the agenda (to more conservative in some things, more radical in others) have been refuted at the ballot box. The voters have spoken, and they have realized what the Party has been telling them all along: it has to deal with the social equality agenda before the economic one. IOW be liberal first, Left second (but committedly both).

We'll continue to lose conservative, aged, ineffectual Democrats and the last DINOs. This year it's Ralph Hall and Zell Miller. But we have lots of pretty good new ones at all levels. Evolution, not revolution.

[RobinA]

24. Although I Expect Bush to Win

I'm not ready to blame the Democratic Party. I think Kerry is a good choice to run against Bush at this point in history. Whether he runs a good campaign or not remains to be seen. If he runs a good campaign and loses it's different than if he runs a crap campaign and loses. Gore won a lousy campaign and kind of won, but couldn't put it away.

My bet is that nobody short of a Clinton (not Clinton) could beat W. at this time, and we don't have a Clinton right now who isn't Clinton.

[KaraokeKarlton]

25. Are you sure you didn't mean "When" he loses?

Bush and Rove will destroy Kerry. I can see it coming already. Democrats really blew it this time. :shrug:

[bitchkitty]

27. I won't be here -

and I'm afraid that he is going to lose.