Why Does The South HAVE To Have A Southerner To Vote For?

[THUNDER HANDS]

I mean, it's not like they're incapable of voting for a candidate from another region of the country are they?

Is there some clause in the state constitution of these southern states that say that at least one person on a presidential ticket has to be from south of the Mason-Dixon line?

What would happen if both parties chose not to run someone, either as Prez or VP, that was from from that area - would the South just cancel their elections?

Why does this region have to be catered to?

[QC]

1. Why does this same topic come up twice a week or so?

Now there's a question that demands an answer.

[THUNDER HANDS]

7. because

Every Edwards post is usually followed by the disclaimer "He'll win us southern states."

Which implies...ergo...that we NEEEEED someone from the South to win the south.

So I think the issue is pertinent, at least until whoever the VP is becomes known.

[morningglory]

8. Some say we NEEEED Gephardt in order to win Missouri.

Aint nothing wrong with the people of Missouri. Don't know why this thinking comes around every 4/8 years.

[THUNDER HANDS]

10. true, however

Nobody ever says putting Gephardt on the ticket will help us in the entire midwest. At best, Missouri is it.

But it seems like to even entertain the possibility of performing well (or at least holding our own) in the south requires somebody from there. And I haven't heard something similar translate to any other region of the country with any other candidate.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. I have no idea

except that more and more people are living in the South. Personally, I have always voted for a person's ideas, not where they live.

[MikeG]

3. I agree with you but like Edwards anyway.

But not because he's a Southerner, because he's a great speaker.

[ulysses]

4. because we're still afraid of Nixon. n/t

[Racenut20]

5. Many think Yankees are pushy and obnoxious. Just don't

have that 'ole swashbuckling charm.

[leyton]

20. That's it exactly.

And the North is perceived as culturally liberal, which doesn't play well in the south at all.

[boxster]

6. Are you serious?

I think this topic has been covered about a zillion times, but the short answer is that it is both cultural and historical.

Southern animosity toward "Northerners" dates back to a little skirmish called the Civil War.

JFK was the last "Northern" Democrat elected President, so it's been a while. Adding a Southerner to the ticket provides some regional balance.

To Southerners, there's the South, and then there's everywhere else.

[THUNDER HANDS]

9. but how can it be that widespread?

How can enough people have animosity towards the North as to be able to deny a northerner the presidency?

I mean, it kinda reminds me of what Israelis say about Palestinian schools and Saudi Arabian schools - that children are taught to hate jews.

Now, I'd imagine that Southern schools don't teach children to hate the North. So for this to go on year after year after year, since Nixon, probably indicates that there's some generation-to-generation hatred going on.

I don't understand it. Of course, I'm not from the South (in case that wasn't already obvious by the fact that I asked the question in the first place).

[boxster]

11. It's been going on a lot longer than Nixon.

Nixon just figured out how to tap it.

Please remember - the Civil War literally split this country in two. The distrust, animosity, and anger became part of society and part of the culture of a region. This certainly becomes generational, just as customs and beliefs are passed on, as well.

If you need a good example, just look at how divisive the Confederate Flag issue is nearly 140 years later.

[Warpy]

12. Right, and the perception is that the south will never vote

for a Yankee candidate unless one of their own is on the ticket to talk some sense into him. Remember, this is the region that returns worthless nutcases like Helms (who finally retired), Delay, Lott, and others every year mainly because they piss off the Yankees.

Of course, most of the south won't vote for Kerry with a southerner on the ticket anyway, so it really doesn't matter. What might matter is having Kerry tell them what he's going to do for working people that might be better than the illusion of a tax cut.

[THUNDER HANDS]

13. I think I'm starting to understand

Which, gets in part to a theory I have about Bush himself and why he's so popular among Republicans.

It's not because they like him for who he is or what he does - but rather, they like him because WE (ie, liberals) HATE him.

Its scary to think that the only reason they would vote for more war and more tax cuts and more shit is because it personally pisses me and people like me, off.

[JayS]

15. It is not so much animosity as it is the fact that much of what...

...candidates from the north stand for is somewhat foreign to us. The appeal is just not there. If the candidate tries to "fit in" it is even worse. That is one mistake that Kerry is making now.

[BootinUp]

14. They don't, they can vote republican instead

Social issues are a huge deal. Generally the republican platform on those issues lines up pretty well with the Southern rural lifestyle. At least thats my humble opinion.

[spooky3]

19. That's my perception also, but I'm hopeful that there will be more

Southern voters whose views line up with the Democrats' platform (now? someday?).

[JayS]

30. Southern voter's views used to line up perfectly with the...

...Democratic Party's platform. Now the platform has morphed into something that does not "fit" all that well.

34. When was that exactly?

I'm wondering when you see the south and the Dems dividing?

[JayS]

35. I think the fracturing started during the reign of Saint Ronnie and...

...really blew up in 1994. I think that as more and more decisions about party direction were made in Washington, or at least seemed to be made there, that the resulting carefully manicured platform resembled more as someone interpreting what the Southern states believed and wanted instead of something that the South had direct input into.

One illustration of this disconnect is the statement I often hear from the higher ups that the South votes God and guns. To me this shows an incredible lack of understanding of the Southern vote.

[libertad]

40. I believe the split happened during the Civil Rights struggle around

Johnson's time. When the Democrats became the party to embrace civil rights, the southern democrats started to bail.

[Raiden]

16. Because we don't like elitist Yankees! j/k

Actually, there are still alot of Southerners who view people from the Northern States as Yankees and hippie liberals. It's sad really. Nixon told America that liberals are evil and his words still haunt the left-wing to this day.

[spooky3]

18. Why is stereotyping ok if it is done by one group but not by another?

I'm not saying YOU feel this way but I'm just articulating a question that seemed to be raised by your post.

[zoeyfong]

17. Because they're very clannish. They don't trust anybody who isn't

one of them.

[sandnsea]

21. Ego

People who build up false notions of themselves in order to hide the fact that they have a bad economy, poor social services, poor interpersonal relations, high crime, etc. The only power they have is their false pride and an obnoxious resistance to the progress of the rest of the country.

I've said on a couple of occasions that if the south wants Democratic clout, the south needs to start with their local Democratic Party. Sorry southerners, but really, do you want the rest of the country to be like the south? I don't. Join the union, it's only been 140 years since you lost the war.

[JayS]

29. This is a good example of why we don't vote for northerners.

And if you really want to complain about conditions in the South, be sure and yell at the Democratic Party, since they did much of the driving since Reconstruction.

[Lefty Pragmatist]

22. Southern identity is expressed in moralist terms.

There's a tremendous amount of moral elitism in the white South -- if you're southern then you're a salt of the earth, Christian, working class hero. If you're not, you're anti-American. The GOP milks this, even to the point of grafting fake folksy twangs and mannerisms on their Ivy grad candidates. The Dems have stroked it ever since Carter.

There's parochialism in every region, but the South has a weird extra parochialism that extends to all the states in the confederacy. Throw in the Christian fundy insanity, the Jim Crow past, and a history of being an agrarian backwater that a lot of people made fun of, and you've got a classic example of "short man's disease," applied across a whole region.

I recommend the book "Confederates in the Attic," which is funny as hell and also dead on about at least those parts of the south where I have lived (the Carolina piedmont and NoVa).

[TexasSissy]

23. Only a non-southerner would ask this.

Although I live in Texas now, which I consider the southwest, I was born and raised in the deep south.

It'd take too long to explain, and I'd get too many arguments against my statements, so suffice it to say that southerners don't NEED a southerner on the ticket....but it helps.

I'll just give you one clue: Remember Howard Dean's statement? Until he made that statement, I had not noticed he was a "yankee" with a warped view of the south. But I was quickly reminded.

Yes...I'd like a southerner on the ticket. But I'm voting for Kerry (that is to say, against Bush), no matter who is on the ticket.

(BTW, I have never owned a confederate flag, or put one on a pickup truck.)

[Hippo_Tron]

24. Reagan won many southern states and he wasn't a southerner...

So I don't think this argument works.

[janx]

25. It doesn't.

And furthermore, I think it's bigoted and insulting to southerners to push that idea.

But if you happen to back a candidate who is from the south (not even the South, but maybe just the south), it's one of those convenient arguments to make, based on good old the good ole' conventional wisdom of bigotry.

[Kipepeo]

26. I don't think it does

I think we need to stop putting the idea out there that we need a southerner to win southern votes.

What we need is a passionate truth-speaker to win votes, southern or not.

[JayS]

39. Where are we going to find one at this late date though? n/t

n/t

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ArkDem]

37. >Their only true faith is hatered, their only truth is a lie.<

In Arkansas we don't hate red. It is the color of the Razorbacks.

[TexasSissy]

41. Hogwash. I was born and raised in the deep south.

Nothing could be further from the truth (that we were raised to think we were superior, or that we were bigoted). Quite the opposite. Race relations were rarely an issue. Just about everyone I knew "got along." We were all small town or country people, all struggling to get by, all concerned with making it paycheck to paycheck. Respect for others. Not like the riots and incidents of discrimination in the north.

This may be so because discrimination is less likely to happen when you KNOW the person involved, which is much more likely in less populated regions. Not that there weren't some bad eggs. There were. But for the most part, people were thought of as people, except that we were aware that some seemed to be "more equal" than others....but we didn't set up that caste. It was the way it was.

We like to vote for southerners because of the warped view of southerners that northerners have. We do vote for nor'easterners.

[BootinUp]

42. I'm not going to disagree

except to say that prejudice is everywhere, and it is worse where it is accepted "as the way things are".

Also, I would add that the South is resistant to change and especially change pushed by outsiders, course thats a normal human reaction too.

[nonkultur]

28. Watch "My Cousin Vinny"

We do not trust anyone who does not eat grits. :)

[dolstein]

31. Maybe it's all the self-righteous Northernors calling them bigots

If you want a good example of bigotry, you need look no further than Boston, Massachusetts. Sure, Northerners were all for Brown v. Board of Education when it only affected the South, but it didn't take long for white Northernors to change their tune when judges in the North started requiring busing. Things got particularly heated in Boston, oddly enough.

But back to your question -- I think there's a lingering distrust of Northern Democrats. Southernors have always been more accepting of Democrats from the region -- even someone like Bill Clinton, who took pretty liberal positions on issues like abortion and gun control. Plus, many northern Democrats have turned out to be lousy candidates. Dukakis, Mondale and McGovern weren't especially charismatic.

[vetwife]

32. Because the Civil War isn't over down here ..unfortunately

Can you think of any president in your lifetime.........
that was not a southerner or had a Southern VP? think..Reagan..had Bush
Clinton had Gore
Kennedy had Johnson
The Bushs are not really southern but they fool folks with that Texas thing they do...
Ike had Nixon...Nixon was from California..not the North and I have no idea where Ike was from.
Ike was a General so...to southerners that didn't count..he traveled there a lot.
Truman was a midwesterner
Roosevelt had a place in Warm Springs
It is regional and it is part of the party platform. A southern will warm up to a midwesterner but the Civil war still rages...
I think this year they would vote for Mork as long as it wasn't Bush..Those of us who are not Bushie crazy and are dems unless you are like Zell and we got plenty of those too !

[spooky3]

36. Reagan from Cal; Bush Sr. from Ct/Maine--where is the southerner?

Ike/Nixon were not southerners. Even Bush Jr. isn't really a southerner as you point out--and Cheney is not.

It seems there are more exceptions in your post than examples.

Maybe it's only Democrats who are expected to include Southerners every time.

[libertad]

38. Reagan and Bush chose to speak in a "folksy" manner which

appeals to the southerners. The thinly vailed racist agendas also appeal to most southerners.

[vetwife]

45. The southern mentality basically is North bad..everywhere else fine

That is the point I was trying to drive home. I know..I am a native here and these people are still fighting the Civl War. Those who have traveled and been exposed to something other than Granny at Christmas six miles down the road, get it. It is bigotry plain and simple and the Democratic party has roots in the south. BIG TIME !
Did you see how fast Edward jumped on Dean about the confederate flag folks being educated and I knew what Dean meant but Edwards said flat out...If you want to make southerners mad, let a Yankee come down and and try to change things. HE said that..Not me.
We got kids running around in Dixie outfitter clothes, the Confederate Flag is proudly displayed by people confused or ignorant on heritage and bigotry, we got people who use the N word like it is the correct word. I am telling you. The majority of white people and I am white and not in the majority in the south want the old Dixiecrat mentality and they want a northener to have a southern sidekick. The strategists know all of this. they do. ITs sad, but its true. Look at Zell Miller......Turned on the dem party so fast because he is just another good old boy who hates the North

[ArkDem]

46. Your thoughts are very clear and sum up the south perfectly.

Thanks for posting.

[nonkultur]

43. You have a good point on the bigot thing.

I have seen more racism in the one year I spent in Philadelphia than I have in my 10 years in Florida.

[jsw_81]

33. Because the south is insecure and has self-esteem issues

It's been this way for about 130 years or so.

[Stuckinthebush]

50. Ummm....no

The South is a little too secure with who "it" is.

That is the problem. We know what we like and what we don't like and that we don't trust those not like us. We are OK with who we are, we are just not OK with those not like us.

That's not insecurity - that's bigotry.

[Anon]

44. History

Look up the term "carpetbagger" for some insight on the suspicion and derision The South has fer them "Damn Yankees".

[Scoopie]

47. I have no idea what you're talking about

since both Tennessee and Virgina have Democratic governors who originally hail from up North.

:P

[TreeHuggingLiberal]

48. Who is this "They" I hear

about them all the time? No one can ever seem to explain who the all encompassing "They" are...

[Comicstripper]

49. Excuse me......

Has anyone else noticed that this is an almost verbatim transcript of a Bill Maher routine? I saw him at the Warner Theater in DC, and he said this, almost word-for-word, I think.
Bill....is that you, Bill???

[Dr Fate]

51. Edwards? Clark? Bob Graham?

Whose complaining???