Why should Clinton supporters

[CatnHat]

support Obama--because the democratic party says so--if the democratic party and Obama camp disenfranchises voters from FL and MI--I will not support either. Unite for what--for more of the same vile and rude comments thrown at Hillary and her supporters--for more of the subtle tactics used against both Pres. Clinton and Hillary for months--for more of the same division within our party--I don't think so. Trust me, I know many Clinton supporters who will sit this out--. The election is over for many. Now Clinton supporters are supposed to come out for their guy--just because Obama and Dean says so--nope. Dean should be fired, no leadership at all. The FL and MI mess should have been straightened out months ago. Instead Hillary is fighting for the voters and all she gets is a kick in ass from the democratic so-called leaders and vile comments from the Obama supporters.

[Lautremont]

1. Just ignore the supporters if you find them rude!

For god's sake, where are your convictions?

[CatnHat]

8. I have been

a democrat for years; and I will not tolerate any party (democrat or republican) disenfranchising voters--the republicans tried it in Florida and Ohio; and now the democratic party has stooped as low-- I will not not support any party because my conviction is with the voters; not the party. Right now, the democratic party is no better than the republican party. That's what is boils down too--and to top it off, the Obama camp sees absolutely nothing wrong with it; and I can't support that.

[Lautremont]

14. The bottom line is

that if you don't think the Democratic party is better than the Republican party, you aren't reading everything you should be reading. They may not be as better as you or I would like them to be, but they are better. So vote for them.

[NanceGreggs]

21. And if MI and FL had been Obama landslides ...

... you'd be preaching about how rules are rules, and should be adhered to.

Yes, the Obama camp see nothing wrong with following the rules that both candidates agreed to ahead of time. Those filthy rule-followers should be run out of town on a rail.

[goletian]

51. yup. theyre full of shit. - nt

[Dammit Ann]

2. Jesus, here we go again...

If you are a Democrat, support the nominee, if not, don't. Simple.

[Webster Green]

3. "Obama camp disenfranchises voters from FL and MI"..

You lost me right there, because that is utter bullshit!

Obama has always said he would abide by the rules.

It doesn't even matter if Clinton gets all of those votes. She's still fucking toast.

I feel sorry for you dead-enders :smoke:

[cliffordu]

4. If you know so many clinton supporters that will sit this one out

and you'll do the same, why are you here now? If all you want to do is make everyone who is still part of the process feel bad. why don't you go away??

We know who the nominee is, help or get out of the way.

[kennetha]

84. With that king of talk, you'll get our comeuppance

if we sit by and watch, your candidate will go down in flame like a McGovern or a Dukakis. The party will be in the wilderness again. And your guy will get the blame. Instead of being a historic moment of triumph, it'll be a historic moment of defeat.

IS that what you want?

Right now you need us more than we need you.

[donheld]

5. This thread is what you'd better read and not forget

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5875767

[Richard Steele]

6. One overwhelming reason: "President McCain". If that's not reason enough...

...then may G*D have mercy upon you.

[bluetrain]

7. We're supposed to want to come out because of Party Loyalty -- though, that

conjures up the Nazi Party for me. We're supposed to come out because of the Supreme Court, which I do think is a valid reason. We're supposed to come out because...McCain is crazy. McCain very well may be insane, but ANYONE who, actually, wants to be the President of The United States at this point in history doesn't have it all together upstairs.

A lot of her supporters and other Dems who were gunning for different candidates will sit this race out. I know some of them. They've been telling me this for months. They neither trust nor LIKE what Obama is selling and think he's unqualified for the job. I feel the same way about him, but haven't decided yet whether or not I'll be able to vote for a man I see as a total con-artist. I live in CA and NY so my vote will be pretty inconsequential, anyway.

And I agree with you about Dean. What a mess.

[Zodiak]

70. Godwin's law

Ever heard of it?

It's why you fail.



The Democrats aren't Nazis for Christ's sakes.

[donheld]

9. You also need to do your homework on FL and MI

Do not blame Obama or Dean for that mess. Look at Madfloridian's journal and learn facts not garbage!

[Name removed]

10. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[davidpdx]

11. My response

1) First, the Obama supporters on here represent a very minor segment of those who support him. Many Obama supporters on DU have softened up in the last 24 hours and reconciliation has begun.

2) Not everyone is going to like or support the nominee 100%. I wasn't crazy about Kerry (nor anyone else that ran in 2004), but I supported him. Personally I've been behind Obama for over a year as he is the one I choose to support (with Edwards being a close second).

3) No one is forcing you to support him, but if you can't actively do that and are posting negative rants about him, eventually it's going to get you banned from here.

4) I had (have) pretty strong feelings about Clinton winning and was pondering skipping voting for a presidential candidate in the GE (no, I wouldn't have voted for McCain). Would I have, I don't know for sure. Some of it might depended on what she said after the primary was over.

This is my honest assessment.

[Joyce78]

12. You've so clearly expressed what my family of lifelong Dems feel

at this point. We feel that the RepubliCONS and the so-called "liberal" MSM have bashed not only Bill this time, but, Hillary and even Chelsea, e.g., David Goofster and his idiot comments regarding Chelsea campaigning for her mother. The Dems, namely Kennedy and Kerry, should never have endorsed any viable Dem candidate so early. Give the people a chance to decide for ourselves (BTW, we saw how well those endorsements against Clinton and for Obama did in Mass !) I've had it ... I'm not voting for Obama nor McCain. I'll probably write in Hillary Clinton as that's more than the rest of my family is doing. Well, they are staying home. Sad, but that's how it is in my family.

[Webster Green]

15. That's a vote for McCain..

Nice plan.

[donheld]

17. Don't tell me you're a life long Dem

You are really willing to let the election go to McCain? You are really willing to let the supreme court go farther to the right, too let Roe v Wade die just because you feel the MSM was mean to Hillary? I find that really hard to believe. Do you not realize Hillary did her share of mean things too?

[rodeodance]

47. You have basically expressed

the feeling of my large family--and many dem. friends--as has the OP.

[dbmk]

48. Is that from a supporter of the candidate that had 200 SDs locked up from the start?

[NanceGreggs]

13. The answer should be obvious ...

... because NOT supporting the Dem nominee is a vote for McCain.

"Unite for what--for more of the same vile and rude comments thrown at Hillary and her supporters?"

No, unite to ensure there aren't another four-to-eight years of Bush policies dictating the WH, and the direction of this country.

But if 'rude comments thrown at Hillary and her supporters' on a website are more important to you than your nation and the welfare of your fellow citizens, by all means stomp your feet, have a tantrum, and take your ball and go home.

Those of us who think that ending the regime of neocon terrorists is more important than YOU will try to muddle along without you - quite frankly, your whining would only be a distraction anyway.

[CatnHat]

16. Frankly,

when the democratic party starts acting like the democratic party instead of taking it's lead from the republicans; then many voters would sit up and take support the party again. It's that simple. Instead of pitting one democrat against the other, which the democratic party has done, instead of taking care of business--there would be no problem. Guess millions of voters don't count in the democratic party--and you call that unity. Get real. Now we are all supposed to rally for the party--when did they rally for the voters of FL and MI???

[NanceGreggs]

25. When did Hillary 'rally for the voters of FL and MI'?

Was it the day she signed the pledge stating she agreed their votes wouldn't count? Or was it the day she realized she needed their votes to count in order to keep her campaign viable?

[rodeodance]

39. The day she decided to leave her name of the ballot--she said there would

be consequences for the GE.

Guess what--she was right.

[NanceGreggs]

44. Yeah, I remember it now ...

That was the day she said, "Although I signed a pledge, under solemn oath, whereby I agreed the votes of this state will not be counted, I had my fingers crossed behind my back - so my oath doesn't count!"

I know she was quoted as saying, "These votes won't count," but what she really meant (wink-wink) was, "These votes won't count until I'm losing, at which point I will claim that they do."

Or maybe it was just the trauma of the sniper-fire incident that caused her to mis-remember everything ...

[HCE SuiGeneris]

59. You want to talk about consequences? Wrap your mind around these...

From fellow DUer, nichomachus Wed May-07-08 12:14 PM http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3255857
Original message
Hate Roe v. Wade? Disgusted by Social Security? Don't want Medicare? Cool

all you have to do is:

1. Hold your breath until you turn blue on election day
2. Don't support the Democratic nominee
3. Don't work to see that we get a Democrat -- any Democrat -- into the White House
4. Hang on to all your money and don't donate
5. Trash the nominee as much as you can
6. Take the "Well, let's just see how "electable" he/she is without me" attitude
7. Don't convince everyone you know that the fascists coup is almost complete.

If a Republican takes the White House in November, you can say goodbye to:

o Roe v. Wade
o Voting rights
o Social Security
o Medicare
o Medicaid
o Welfare
o Gay rights
o Unemployment insurance
o Environmental protections
o Worker safety
o Worker rights
o Minimum wage
o Unions
o Quality public education
o Community colleges
o What's left of the Constitution
o National parks
o Water (they are working hard to privatize all water supplies and delivery, so you will have to pay through the nose)
o Religious freedom -- more importantly, the right not to be religious
o Veterans benefits
o Privacy
o The right to seek redress through the courts
o and others too numerous to mention

There has been a fascist coup brewing in the US since Prescott Bush tried to install himself as a dictator in 1934. His grandson has brought that coup almost to completion. If we don't do something to stop it now, our window of opportunity will be shut, and we will never overturn the fascist bastards without some serious bloodshed.

[rodeodance]

60. fear mongling will get you nowhere fast.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

61. Like your fear mongering telling us if we don't woo you, we lose the GE?

What the fuck ever...

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Here is a little secret... the two states violated the rules

granted, the cons had a smidgen to do with that, but

Oh and in the end you can bet they will be seated, but punished... as DEAN said, the voters should not pay for what happened, FULLY

And even with that, she cannot mathematically catch up

Why this is over

[Hippo_Tron]

18. Obama will have FL and MI seated after Hillary drops out

And before you say he only cares about them since they don't matter anymore, I will remind you that Hillary didn't believe they should count until she needed them.

[CatnHat]

19. Yeah, that why

the Obama camp sent lobbyists to stop a revote in MI???

[Hippo_Tron]

22. He wanted a revote where people that voted in the GOP Primary were allowed to vote

Many Democrats crossed over to prop Romney up to drag out the GOP Primary longer, because they were under the impression that their votes in the Dem Primary wouldn't count.

[donheld]

26. When are you going to learn and tell the truth about FL and MI

have you paid any attention to Madfloridian?

[susankh4]

69. Madfloridian is an Obamaphile

I tried to pay attention to him. But, there is nothing objective about anything he says. Period.

He doesn't even know that it is *his* candidate that is going to take a look at school vouchers... and he's over there railing about the GOP doing so. Bah!

If the Dems want this primary to stand, and if they want big tent democracy... it is time for them to resolve the issues of FLA and MI... It's as simple as that.

[writes3000]

24. I do not understand how anyone can rationally ignore your point.

It's the plain truth.

FL and MI will count. But they will not be the deciding factors in the election. And Hillary was A-Okay with this until it didn't serve her.

FL and MI will count in some fashion. Their voices will be heard.

[rodeodance]

20. The Democratic

party that I once knew is the same. Now its the 'new' Democratic party, a party that disenfranchises two states--and do not seen to care about fixing the mess. It and the DNC favors one candidate over another, yet says it is neutral. Its not the Dem. Party I knew

[Webster Green]

30. Hillary loses even with those two states..

You really don't understand that? :wtf:

[cliffordu]

38. I don't understand how you can possibly believe what you write here,

or who you think you're going to influence.

But keep wasting your time. I like the laughs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Here are your choices

1.- Vote for the presumptive nominee... I am and I was an Edwards Fan... neither of these two enthused me

2.- Vote for McCain.... who should loose anyway

3.- Stay home... your prerogative

4.-Write her in... see number two

5.- Vote third party

It is over... tine to get behind the presumptive candidate,

Why? USSC that is one STRONG reason

Take some time...

And if you are a good democrat, you will do what the rest of us are doing... GET BEHIND the presumptive nominee

Is he perfect? NO... no candidate ever is.

By the way several of those choices fall in the spite your face department

[CatnHat]

28. Missed one

6. A good democrat counts all the votes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. And? They will seat the delegations in the end

but the states did violate rules

And REGARDLESS of what happens it is MATHEMATICALLY impossible to overcome the lead Obama has

By the way tell me do we always have all the primaries count?

I swear when I voted back in 2000 California didn't really count.

You are hurting... take some time... it will make sense by November... I hope

[rodeodance]

32. I think that is one of the

worst things that has happened this primary. Hillary kept her name on the
Michigan ballot because she said she was concerned of the consequences for the GE.

And the DNC with its bias toward Obama still think they can diss the voters of FL and MI with no consequences.

[cali]

29. I don't really care if you do

you've said disgusting things about Obama- as have many other Clinton supporters here. Dean has done more for democrats than Hillary or Obama has. And this isn't some personal little thing. If you don't get that it's not all about you and your hurt feelings, you don't get anything at all.

[CatnHat]

36. It has nothing

to do with me. Clinton was my third choice, it's how the democratic party has handled this primary. The democratic party is in a royal mess--where have you been. Gushing over your candidate--doesn't change the fact there are major flaws in our party starting with its leadership.

[donheld]

49. It has to do with you not telling the truth

[EmilyAnne]

33. Being upset because one particular democrat didn't win the nomination over another is no reason

to punish the entire country with a McCain presidency. If you admire Hillary Clinton so much, it seems that the least you could do is support the party that most closely embraces her ideals. That would not be the party of John McCain, but rather the party of Barack Obama. The Democrat Party.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

34. It is the Democrat(IC) party.

[EmilyAnne]

35. OK. So sorry.

[cliffordu]

40. Rush calls it "The democrat party" .....Hmmm. makes you wonder....

:sarcasm:

[EmilyAnne]

41. LOL. Yes, I am a Rush Limbaugh surrogate. You caught me!

[cliffordu]

42. I forgot the sarcasm tag....

:hi:

[EmilyAnne]

45. HA! I usually don't need to see a tag, but its late and I AM still relativeley new here so I

figured, hell, maybe I do seem like one of Rush's agents of chaos to certain people on this board. It can be pretty nutty around here. Thanks for letting me know you were kidding!

[PseudoIntellect]

37. Obama camp didn't disenfranchise voters from FL and MI.

FL and MI party people did that for their whole states, sadly for them.

Hillary didn't care about disenfranchising them in October, as the tapes clearly showed. She only cared after she started losing.

I think the majority of Democrats who don't get their candidate nominated will avoid intellectual suicide and vote for the candidate that is 90% consistent on their candidate's issues rather than turning to a guy with 10%.

[CatnHat]

43. Clearly

the DNC and the Obama camp made sure the voters in FL and MI could not revote. There were opportunities to do so; but fell on deaf ears. Dean or Obama showed no leadership skills in handling the situation. The Obama camp would not because of fear Clinton would go ahead in the popular votes, and Dean is just useless.

[EmilyAnne]

46. Because all the Republicans who already voted for McCain could turn around and vote twice for

the "weakest" democrat. And who would pay for it?

[purji]

77. I beg your pardon but

Obama didn't have any thing to do with michigan pushing up our primary.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donheld]

52. Some of them seem to have a real problem with the truth.

[cboy4]

53. Another asshole Obama fan who thinks the dude can

actually beat McCain in the GE without the support of the "born losers."

It's comical.

[bluetrain]

56. I find it more scary than funny. Unless they've been tipped off that a fix is in, it indicates

a profound ignorance on the part of nearly half of the Democratic Party in regard to the history of elections in this country and general voting patterns. We can thank Reagan (Obama's hero) for beginning the decimation of our public schools.

[Zodiak]

71. I think you can come up with a less divisive argument

"born losers" is just name-calling.

[Marrah_G]

75. Nice broadbrush attack on many good DUers.

This is against the rules. Since you are new I suggest you go read those rules.

[JCMach1]

54. McCain, that's all you need to meditate on

And while I neither liked, nor supported Obama... He was at the very bottom of my choices in the primaries, I will hold my nose and yes even tilt at windmills to see that McCain doesn't get elected.

The reality is that Hillary has lost now...

[lligrd]

55. Then Why Di d Hillary Agree To The Rules In The First Place

Could it be because she was fine with them when she thought she could win while disenfranchising them?

Hillary agreed to the rules and now has to play by them!

[melody]

57. What's more important to you -- a petulant, sullen pouting binge or electing a Democrat?

I swear, I've read more childish "I didn't get my way so I'm gonna go pout in the corner" declarations today.

My candidate didn't get nominated either -- but I know damned well the earth cannot survive four more years of
Bush government. What's more important? The planet or you getting your way?

[Lord Helmet]

58. don't let the screen door hit you in the ass on the way out

[Lord Helmet]

62. .

[eridani]

63. Clinton disenfranchised them--the rules came from her people n/t

[annie1]

64. Hillary will get MI and FLA sat before she exits. Obama should appreciate that....

but i doubt he will. probably thinks he doesn't need them.

[bowens43]

65. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[NoPasaran]

66. Happy to be Rec #5

The Obamapaths are going to get a harsh math lesson come November.

[barack the house]

67. Right you see that north pole it's melting. Sit it out as long as you can swim for it.

The world is in peril we sit out we end it out. It really is that simple.

[Mass]

68. Because the choice is between Obama and McCain. If they want a third term of Bush, fine. Otherwise,

the choice should be clear.

[susankh4]

72. I'd like to vote for Mr. Obama

But his followers keep convincing me not to. They keep raising these red flags about how ignorant and unreasonable they are.

Makes me very leary....

[Marrah_G]

73. If you don't vote for the nominee you are helping the GOP win.

It is that god damn simple.

Get your ass out and vote for the Nominee because frankly, it's all about Iraq and the Supreme court.

A vote for ANYONE or NO ONE, besides our Dem nominee, is a vote for McCain.

I will hold my nose and vote, along with alot of others here, because we know what is at stake.

[purji]

74. two words John McCain! n/t

[jsmirman]

76. Maybe because you're supposed to give a da** about the country and the world???

Maybe because to be here discussing politics is hopefully a sign that you care about things getting better rather than worse and because certain issues that the democratic party supports are important to you?

If Hillary won, for da** sure I would have voted for her. I couldn't have campaigned for her because I couldn't have looked a potential voter in the eye and said that I believed in her as a person. But I assure you I would have voted and voted for her.

But because your little feelings are bruised, that's reason enough to not care at all about the country and our future???

Why exactly are you here? Are you here to play games on the internet or are you here because you actually care about what happens in America and the world?

Get over yourself and man up or woman up. You are not as important as the world and neither am I.

[Vinca]

78. If you choose not to support the Democratic candidate and the

Republican wins, your world will change dramatically. The Supreme Court will be altered for generations to come (and not in a good way). War will continue and expand and your sons and daughters might get a draft letter at some point. If you're lucky enough to have good health insurance through your employer, you can kiss that goodbye. McCain will send you a check for $5,000 to pay for an inferior, $12,000 policy. Under continued Republican rule, this country will take a profound turn for the worse, hard as that is to imagine. Obama is the person who, according to the numbers, is winning the nomination. Hillary does not have the votes. That's just the way it is.

[NJmaverick]

79. This is an obscene position- You want McCain to win

because your choice for nominee lost. That is a pretty self centered and shallow position to hold. It's pretty sick that you would let a third george bush term (only with an older crankier version) destroy what is left of our Country. I guess the repukes are right about one thing, there are Dems with who have patriotism issues.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

80. I hear you!

[Califooyah Operative]

81. You're Wrong, several times.

1.Because the other option is John McCain. Because he's not that different from Hillary Clinton. Because the Democratic Party is the more progressive of our two parties and he's about to be our nominee.

2. the Democratic Party and Obama haven't disinfranchised voters. Florida and Michigans states parties, congressional delegations, and elected officials did this to their own states and their own constituents. They broke the rules. They couldn't do what 48 other states did and they paid the price. Don't blame the DNC, the party or Obama for that.

3. The fact that so many Democrats have turned against the Clintons says a lot more about the Clintons than it does Obama. Even their supporters and past supporters are backing Barack. They've lost a lot of us with their tactics and stretegy against a fellow Democrat who is likely to be our nominee.

4. Dean has been the best thing to happen to this party and the DNC in a long time. The 50-state strategy is a big reason we won so big in 2006. Florida and Michigan broke the rules. He didn't make them, he's doing his job in enforcing them and maintaining fairness and order.

[Shae]

82. Clinton agreed

to "disenfranchise FL and MI from the getgo.
She only changed her mind when she found she needed them to help her win.
As long as she didn't need them, "Screw 'em."

[LaurenG]

83. Oh my goodness How.Did.This Hit.The Greatest.Page?

Stop it. The most ridiculous wars we have here are over our own party. :shrug:

[kevinbgoode]

85. Well, once again...how many times does this have to be explained?

The Democratic party did not disenfranchise those voters - their state did. Why is it that so many of these Hillary supporters suddenly discovered what their state legislatures and state party organizations did to them? It isn't like some breaking news - a lot of voters KNEW BEFORE the primary - and didn't vote. Now the Hillary campaign wants to disenfranchise THEM.