AP:They're Going to Rip Kerry's Throat Out During Repub Convention...

[ItsMyParty]

Did a "speed read" through an AP article in a newspaper in my dentist's office today before they called my name (no identification of reporter--just "AP"). Sure didn't make my time in "the chair" happy!!!

The AP reporter was interviewing what was described as "Bush's political team". The lead-in was how happy they were that Kerry received "no bounce" from the Dem convention, blah, blah (we've heard it before). They then told the reporter the two things that the Democrats did wrong in their convention that they learned from. They said neither Kerry nor his "surrogates": 1) did NOT attack Bush and 2) they did not deal with Kerry's polcies. They said that they would not repeat those mistakes and said that they "WOULD NOT BE SHY" (their words) in attacking Kerry at their convention.

I have 98% of the time agreed with the Kerry plan of not attacking Bush and presenting "our" vision. BUT, if (when) they do this at their convention, Kerry/Edwards/Dem Talking Heads either launch a full frontal, immediate attack on them OR they are going to lose a chunk of the Dem base who are going to throw in the towel. Dems were totally charged up and then given a milk-toast convention. They swallowd their differences and swallowed the milk-toast because they thought this was the way to defeat Bush. But if they see a national, wide-open forum for Bush to bash the living shit out of us, they are going to think that we are the same old spineless dicks who never dared take on this asshole. Don't you count on them to keep on going ....sometimes soldiers can't take anymore and they break.

Kerry has to immediately go for the balls at the first sign of their shit this time. He will get TV coverage if he does, which detracts from their convention, because the networks are spoiling for a fight. He CANNOT do the horeseshit of "it is customary not to do anything during their convention".

At the point they launch this attack, we have to realize that the boorish, clod Americans will not prefer our "tea party" with it's gracious manners to the outright bar room brawl that Bush will give them and which is more their style. And spare me the crap of how we are so noble to take the high ground. When this comes down at their convention, it's much more understandable to the people if we rise up with righteous indignation and slam them right then and there as they speak--the people won't look at that as "terrible attacks on Bush"; it's Kerry and the Dems defending their positions and their honor. If we wait until October, see we are losing and then launch the "attack" (and apparently Kerry does this), we will just look like pathetic losers bitching and griping about nothing. The successful Commander in Chief is one who knows when to stop the polite jawing and launch the nukes.

[Democat]

1. Americans are not looking for weakness right now, we can't look weak

If we let the Republicans attack us without launching any offense of our own, then we look weak and we could lose.

The 2002 election was the perfect example of what happens when Democrats refuse to fight against Bush. We got beat because we were too scared to stand up for ourselves.

If Democrats won't stand up for themselves, why should Americans trust them to stand up for America?

The more we fight, the more we win.

[K-W]

3. Yah, im sure the media will be lining up to give Kerry time to respond.

Looking weak and acting weak are two very very different things.

[lancdem]

2. Nothing new here

They've been saying that for weeks. Kerry will be ready. Keep in mind, an incumbent who has to spend his time attacking his challenger rather than campaigning on his record is an incumbent in trouble.

[ItsMyParty]

8. ahh, but Lancdem...why does an incumbent in trouble take this route??

..because IT WORKS. You are assigning to the general public the indepth insight we have into this. They don't know, honey, from shit. They are not only going to get a "convention" but they are going to get a zillion hours of free press telling the Americans what a walking piece of douche bag Kerry is. It's been fun...so far. But once they do this, it cannot be business as usual for Kerry. Like I said, there are going to be Dems who can't take it any longer and will walk away in disgust figuring that "like always, we do nothing and lose". Here is where he either stands or falls. Why did so many fall for "flip flop"??..a stupid ad in a few states and it is a national mantra. What I'm trying to get across is: THIS IS KERRY'S EXCUSE TO NOT BE MR. NICE GUY ANY LONGER".

[K-W]

10. Nope your wrong.

It sometimes works, though it doesnt work nearly as well as other strategies.

It is nto Kerry's excuse to do anything. Kerry has not been Mr. Nice guy, nor should he change his strategy.

Letting himself get sucked into a mud slinging fight with bush is the last thing on earth he should do. Bush would win that fight. Kerry can win by running his own campaign and not letting Karl Rove dictate the election.

[lancdem]

25. He takes that route because he can't run on his record

and this election is a referendum on George Bush, not John Kerry. Kerry's people know what's coming. They're not novices.

[DenverDem]

4. I don't know what convention you watched

but the Democratic Convention I saw had plenty of pointed criticism of busholini.

Don't sell Kerry short. He's been in battle before.

[trotsky]

5. A "milk-toast" (sic) convention?

Maybe we watched different conventions.

I remember seeing an up-and-comer named Barak Obama speak, and dispel ridiculous notions of a blue-state/red-state America divided.

I listened to TWO former presidents point out the glaring failures in the current administration, and give us reason for hope.

I saw a dynamic pulled-himself-up-by-the-bootstraps candidate for VP who got up to the podium and gave the speech of his life.

And finally, I witnessed one of the most qualified men to lead this country accept his party's nomination with a message of hope and patriotism.

Again, maybe we watched different conventions.

[DoBotherMe]

6. Of course they are ....

because they certainly cannot highlight their record of the last four years. The reality of this administration is that we are at war and losing the peace, we have been attacked on our own shores, our powerful American economy is being devastated, our former allies are banding together to arm themselves against us, and our own citizens and institutions are dying from neglect. There is nothing to be proud of.

[Trajan]

I think your wrong ....

I think you make two mistakes ...

1) You presume that there is a stomach for ugly rhetoric: ... that simply isnt true: the base loves it: the undecideds hate it ... Bush NEEDS the marginal players now .... he stands to alienate them ... and LOSE the election ...

2) Kerry needs to be 'Presidential' and stay above the fray ... he needs to take the 'High Road' ... and let his acolytes: US, for instance, do the hand to hand combat in the trenches ... Kerry needs to float above the blood soaked ground ... Kerry's DNC acolytes WILL be there, and they had better respond to each and every thrust and parry, and let Kerry be 'Mr. President' ...

So people have a need for blood and guts, most people dont have a taste for it ...

[ItsMyParty]

11. Trajan--they say that in every election.........

and you know what (It's the economy STUPID--not a nice statement, is it?), the negative bastards win. The fighters win. The bar room brawlers win and that is why Mr. Clinton didn't just spread "sunshine"---he was smart enough to say (gasp) the words STUPID to a holy, incumbent president. Big Dog was not dumb.

[K-W]

12. Stop oversimplifying things.

Fighting is not the same as being negative. Bar room brawlers dont always win. Kerry is not being nice right now, he has very strongly critisized Bush. You are operating under several false assumptions.

Kerry has been doing a good job of critisizing Bush and selling himself and turning the campaign more negative would be a major mistake.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

19. Do you remember 1992? I doubt it. Clinton ran a totally positive campaign.

"It's the economy, stupid" was a sign inside Clinton campaign headquarters to remind the campaign workers where to focus.


Try to get at least one fact right before you post next time.

[Trajan]

24. You are purposely changing the focus of that comment ...

"It's the economy, STUPID!", is what Carville told HIMSELF ....

It is not an OUTWARD attack, but an inward mneumonic ...

Furthermore: Clinton, ABOVE ALL, kept his poise and his mein in the face of GOP attacks ....

I love Clinton, and you are misrepresesnting his record ...

[DODI]

7. The only story at that convention will be the people in the streets

of NYC. I think they can say what they want, I don't think many are going to be listening. I may live in a dream world, but there is too much out there right now that could break them at any time. Plame is heating up again, the al Qaeda mole they outed for political game, oil possibly hitting $50 a barrel this week, dismal unemployment numbers, all terra all the time, not to mention the Iraq mess. Let them say what they want -- because when they do -- it backfires.

[Guaranteed]

14. Yup, this is why we have to protest.

They want to see power, we'll show them power.

[liveoaktx]

9. They're also going to be turning out in droves for the prostitutes

so?
You are FRAMING this discussion in totally erroneous terms, as it is not true that the Dems are not fighting back against the gutter slanders spewed out daily by the hypocrites. Are you just not paying attention or is there some reason you wish to paint the Dems as tea-partying, potential losers?

[ItsMyParty]

16. I hear the jargon from the campaign trail every day

I'm sure it sends goose bumps among the thousands in attendance (remember that from an old Clinton stop years ago). But America pays no attention. They pay attention to "flip flop"--don't they??--come on, dear, you have to admit they do. Do you see what I mean?? Once they attack at the convention the words will be sounded over and over again by this media. BUT if Kerry comes out and really attacks Bush in the manner people like us have been calling for for years, the media will cover Kerry and a different voice will be heard next to the republican spew. Please, all of you, spare me the tearing Kerry down after these elections if he loses......what then would you in hindsight have suggested?? There will be a time when Kerry either has to go for Bush or he will not win.

[olddem43]

13. Kerry should take the high road - let others do the responding

to the dirty tricks. Unless he is specifically asked a question by a news-person regarding any attack.

[Bunny]

15. Two words: 1992.

Okay, that's only one word. But I would caution the Repubs to remember the 1992 convention in Houston. The "family values" vitriol that they spewed was so repulsive to the American public that Bill Clinton was ushered into office as a much desired breath of fresh air.

Go for it, Pubs! Spew! Then say goodbye, Georgie!

[ItsMyParty]

18. bunn--and I must remind you that the breath of fresh air that won

Clinton the White House wasn't is charming vision of the future, it was the ATTACK, "it's the ecnomy, STUPID"---something, god awful to say to a sitting president...disrespectful and all that, you know. But he knew how to use an attack that was part of popular speech of the time and he won. HE DID NOT win because of some lame "vision for American"; he won because he called Papa STUPID. And I suggest we take a page out of the Big Dog's book

[Bunny]

21. Well, that works for me, ItsMyParty!

I'm not a fan of taking the high road, but you do need to know when to ease up. I think Kerry is doing fine so far, but I hope he knows how to draw blood when necessary!

[Arkana]

41. Kerry isn't stupid

That's the assumption I'm seeing from a few people on this board--that Kerry is just another stupid weakling who won't fight for the presidency the way the Bushies did in the 2000 debacle.

Kerry's a fighter. Already I'm seeing marked differences between his and Al Gore's campaigns. As much as I like Al, he didn't run a savvy campaign (and he still won--amazing). He experienced the lash of the RNM :the Republican Noise Machine, and I think he and his team were underprepared as to how to deal with mudslinging of this magnitude.

Kerry, however, saw what happened in '00. He saw how they turned Gore, who really is just an overzealous Boy Scout, into a liar via their greatest tool--the media. Consequently, he entered the race against Bush with his guard up. So far, the "Flip-Flop" has not gained as much ground with the American people as the "Liar" did, and Kerry has made sure to hit back hard after the "Swift Boat Veterans" ad blew up in Shrubya's face.

Kerry's campaign is running much smarter and more efficiently than Gore's did. He's able to refute the attacks on his character, but at the same time is able to get his message out to the people of this country.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

23. You are revealing your ignorance of 1992 -- see post 19

see post 19

[lancdem]

27. Clinton never called Poppy stupid

I think you need to read some of the other posts here. Kerry is not Michael Dukakis.

[LiberalFighter]

32. Cost of bread... Check out scanners...

gw*1 was out of the loop

[robcon]

36. Clinton never said "It's the economy, stupid" to anyone.

That was a slogan at his headquarters to remind the troops that the economy is the key campaign variable.

[DaveinMD]

38. watch the war room

Its a great campaign movie.

[NightOwwl]

17. Am I just imagining things?

But weren't all the Bush operatives (Ed Gillespie, MathDowd, Ralph Reed, etc) and the pundits ranting about the (so-called) Bush-bashing from all the DNC speakers? :shrug:

Who wants to bet those same people will be full of praise for the Kerry-bashers at the RNC.

[Guaranteed]

20. Kerry had just better not look like he's afraid to fight. nt

[flpoljunkie]

22. Agreed! Bush's relentlessly negative ads have gotten him NOWHERE so far!

They can't run on their record so they will continue to attack, slime and smear! How utterly pathetic-- and totally lacking in honor and dignity, I might ad!

[snippy]

26. A few days before the convention, democrats should start

pointing out that the Bush campaign is boasting about how much the republicans are going to criticize Kerry. Democrats should stress that this will be an attempt to deflect attention away from Bush and his accomplishments and an attempt to mislead the American people about Kerry. Democrats should say that it is very understandable that Bush would want to deflect attention away from his accomplishments and mislead the American people about Kerry.

However, keep in mind that the AP reporter was told about this by "Bush's political team." It would be very unusual for anyone connected to Bush to tell the truth. So this could just be misinformation.

[ItsMyParty]

28. TIME OUT TIME OUT....

Just want to ask: If by chance (god forbid) Kerry loses in November, I assume not a one of you (not a ONE) will come on DU or other websites and bitch that "he never attacked Bush"....am I correct? Like I said, I've 98% agreed in the tact this campaign has used. But not when the media will help Bush launch a bloody attack on Kerry and not expect a reply from this campaign. And if you think this is the worst they are going to do...it's just the beginning. By November, Kerry will be dealing with illigit children, mistresses, gay lovers, scewing Jane Fonda and everything under the sun. It's too late then to put his hands on his hips and be "real mad" at what they are doing. Ask McCain. Ask Max. Either learn to end run them or get run over by them.

[Lex]

29. Fine, if the Repukes want to look like the hateful, spiteful, assholes

that many in the middle suspect they are at this point, then they SHOULD hold a hateful, spiteful convention.

I'm sure it will erode support for Bush, not garner it.

They think that running around thumping their chests is what's going to win this election, but they are WRONG. People are sick and tired of their war-mongering "Bring it On" shit, and want a more reasoned approached to the problems in the world.

Sure, the Repukes have their dwindling base who love that chest-thumping crap, but the vast middle is tired of the US being despised and having no stature on the world stage anymore.

[Julien Sorel]

30. All Kerry need do is howl

like a baboon whose banana is rotten, and the base will love him.

Seriously, the smart play is to let the Republicans have their fun at their convention, while staying on message. It shows strength and confidence, whereas getting defensive over some loony attacks shows weakness. I get the sense at this point that the public likes Kerry the more they see of him; that could turn around if he started looking mean spirited. The public seems tired of nastiness.

[KittyWampus]

31. "milk toast" convention? The DNC I watched was great.

either you bought the GOP spin or you have an agenda.

[Inland]

33. As opposed to its current strategy?

Let them continue with the SoS. If sixty million of negative ads, if Bush himself voicing the negative attacks, don't work, then having chunky red faced southerners line up with unprepared speeches won't work either. Instead, one of them will go "too far" and then the entire convention will be about that, not Bush and whatever thin gruel of a platform he is presenting.

Besides, all the pubbies are doing, IMO, is dropping the threat so that the rightie media can speculate on what they are going to attack Kerry on, thus publicizing the slanders so the pubbies don't have to. And the rightie media wasn't going to stop anyway. So let Kerry be Kerry.

[spanone]

34. I hope so, let the American Public see just how mean spirited they are.

[DaveinMD]

35. if this is so

they could be making the same mistake they made in 1992. The tone of that convention really hurt them.

[busheatspoo]

37. Bush Eats Poo

I think it's about time we met the president at his level. Everyone is talking about values and character and all this other amorphous shit. I'm sick of losing on this issue.

Listen. The Democrats have a hard time choosing whether they are going to be a party that has an image that reflects their policy stances or be a party that has an image that reflects their will to win.

I think the latter.

So lets get down to some serious name calling. Let's appropriate the word "conservative" as a dirty word like they did with "liberal." Let's TOTALLY GIVE UP ON SUBSTANCE. No one wants it. No one can handle it.

Let's tell the world that BUSH EATS POO.

Thank you.


http://www.busheatspoo.com

[DaveinMD]

39. very funny

how about bush is poo

[quaker bill]

40. They will try, it is all they have to run on.

I honestly do not think that it will work all that well. The harder the repugs came after Clinton the more popular he became.

There was always going to be a fair share of mud-wrestling in this campaign. Dean got this early on. Edwards has made an issue of it.
I think Kerry has it figured out as well.

The bonus for Democrats this time around is that they do not have to make things up about Bush. All they need to do is point out his actual performance. The loss of good jobs, the torturing of prisoners, and the unjust war all happened on Bush's watch.