Supporters deliver petition to get Nader on Iowa ballot

[BJ]

Nader supporters petition to get name on Iowa ballot

By LYNN CAMPBELL
REGISTER STAFF WRITER
August 13, 2004
Supporters of Ralph Nader delivered a petition Thursday to the Iowa secretary of state's office with more than twice the number of signatures needed to get the independent presidential candidate on the November ballot in Iowa.
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"As far as these alleged Republican Party members, I don't know anything about that," said David Larson of Waterloo, a member of the Green Party who is Nader's Iowa ballot access coordinator. "These signatures are 100 percent legitimate, gathered by supporters."
(-snip-)
The effort to get Nader on the ballot in Iowa has drawn scrutiny in recent weeks as volunteers who said they were supporting President Bush have appeared outside Bush-Cheney campaign events in Clive and Cedar Rapids, asking Republicans to sign a petition for Nader.
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Meanwhile, Rick Johnson of Burlington, a member of the Green Party who works with the Louisa-Muscatine Community Schools, complained to the Iowa secretary of state's office that Nader supporters were paying 50 cents a signature for those who helped with the petition.
Complete Des Moines Register story

Why is it that idealistic Greens, like the above mentioned Mr. Larson, and other various and sundry ideologically pure liberals,for example Alexander Cockburn, think it preferable to continue the current neo-fascist regime than replace it with one that, while conservative in the economic sense, shall restore government as an honest broker between between the interests of special corporate-interests and those affecting the common welfare of the nation?

A Kerry administration may not usher in a messianic millennium but at least Greens and others counted among the ideologically pure of the left will find a seat at the table. With the current administration the left not only has no seat at the table but is not even let into the dining room.

[blondeatlast]

1. The current regime is the WORST thing to happen to the ideals

Mr. Nader represents.

I don't get the disconnect.

The Kennebunkport Kowboy and his regime are actively working to tear down liability law, consumer protection, environmental legislation, anti-trust legislation, ad infinitum.

Mr. Kerry may not introduce any NEW consumer-friendly legislation, but he saure as hell won't act to destroy what we already have.

Moronic.

[BJ]

4. You know, I've wrestled with this conundrum for a long time.

The best I can figure in Nader's example is that if all the reforms he advocates become law then he's out of a job. I don't know why he'd care he's of an age were most people retire.

As for others whom I count among the ideologically pure maybe they think things will get so bad under Bush that there'll be some sort of popular uprising?

I don't' know?

[blondeatlast]

5. I think Nader is honestly hoping for point #2.

I used to have the utmost admiration for him, now he scares me nearly dry.

He doesn't seem to get it and neither do his Ivory Snow politcs supporters.

If Kerry loses, well, I won't let it get that far--the gloves are off NOW.

[BJ]

6. Well, that's a fantasy.

The large segments of the American electorate are so sedated in one way or another--whether it be adherence to a particular religion, allegiance to an ideology or simply the effort to raise a family--that revolutionary action is out of the question. Compared to many other Western democracies, and many in the developing world, the United States is very docile.

Political and economic developments that send the French, Venezuelans, Argentines, Germans, whomever into the streets elicits no response in this country.

If Nader is imagining a popular revolution will overthrow George W. Bush he's smoking some mighty powerful pot.

[DeepModem Mom]

2. Today's Electoral Vote Predictor has Iowa "barely Kerry" --

thanks, Naderites.

"There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see."

[blondeatlast]

3. The Ivory Snow idealogicals are dooming their ideals,

as well as the rest of us.

[mzmolly]

10. Indeed, and they don't seem to realize their snow is actually full of piss

:(

[MadHound]

7. Good, the more choice the better

Nice to see a true anti-war candidate will at least get on some ballots. Democracy at work people, love it or hate it, this is democracy at work.

As for your comment ". . .but at least Greens and others counted among the ideologically pure of the left will find a seat at the table.", where have you been for the past twenty five years friend. Not only has the Democratic party taken away our seat at the table, they have pretty much kicked us to the curb. And so, unwanted in our own party, we strike out to find a new voice in a new party. And yet you still hypocritically call us traitors and worse. It is stupidity like that that will consign the Dems to the dustbin of history. Big tent party my ass, just more of the same ol' same ol' two party/same corporate master system of government.

[BJ]

8. So you'd prefer four more years of Dubya?

Quite possibly followed by four to eight years of Jebby? Huh? And the what? Expecting the "people" to rise up like the sans culottes of the French Revolution and throw the bastards out?

Fact is, bucko, my former state senator--due to redistricting--supported Nader in 2000, much to the chagrin of the county Democratic Party. Yet he handily won reelection in 2002 and is running for governor.

I don't agree with the "big tent" party ideal either. I would rather there be as many political parties in this country as political philosophies.

However, at this time in history it is not wise to split the vote.

Vote your conscience in 2008. But for now swallow your "idealism" and vote to at least stem the rising tide of neo-fascism.

[MadHound]

9. LOL "bucko" keep falling for that good cop/bad cop routine

And sell out our whole country by being a good little Democrat. As for myself, yes, I'll be voting Kerry, but after that, I'm done with this thrice damned party. They don't give a damn about what I'm wanting, and they're so far down into the pocket of big business that they might as well be 'Pugs. But don't worry yourself, I will vote for Kerry ONLY because of the Supreme Court Justices. Of course if the man keeps making stupid arrogant statements like the "If I knew then what I know now. . ." gaffe the other day, I'm gone, I'm Green. Do you realize how fucking hard it is for a lifelong committed pacifist person to be forced to choose between two fucking war candidates? Sorry friend, but you're not going to get any rah-rah out of me, I'm sick of this shit, and even if Kerry gets in, it won't stop. Mark my words, the man will pull an LBJ just to insure his re-election.

And trust me, this vote won't stem the tide of neo-facism or anything else. What do you not understand about two party/same corporate master system of government. The ONLY things that will are publicly financed election campaigns, and voting for candidates who take no corporate cash. That rules Kerry out, yet against my better judgement I'm voting for him. Happy now?! Just don't expect me to fucking cheerlead for him, donate to him, or work for him. He is simply another fucking corporate whore who should go the way of the dinosaurs so that the true healing of this country can begin.

[BJ]

11. Don't patronize me.

I came of age in the anti-war movement. And I lobby for campaign finance reform in my state; that is the only way we will achieve any semblance of electoral fairness and parity. And, yes, it's getting harder and harder to support the Democratic Party, especially as it's currently under the domination of the DLC. However, if I'm on the outside I cannot reform its inside.

I hope you find the change you seek in the Green Party USA. I want it as a viable alternative to the two-headed monster. Were the circumstances different I would register Green Party.

As for your reference to LBJ. Lydon B. Johnson did not seek reelection in 1968.

[MadHound]

12. Tell you what, I won't patronize you

If you'll stop using such patronizing terms of endearment such as "bucko". And as one who has probably as much, if not more political experience as you, then you know how truthfully I speak when I tell you've that I've tried the "reform from the inside" trick for decades now, and it has been a complete waste of my time. Instead, I've watched the Democratic party head ever rightwards, and ever deeper into the pocket of corporate America. The party has become so corrupted that change from the outside is the only viable alternative. Hell, it worked back in FDR's day, why not in our day?

And I realize that LBJ didn't seek re-election in '68. I was referring to '64. Gulf of Tonkin ring a bell?

[The Magistrate]

13. As You know, Mr. Hound, Since We Have Had This Exchange Before

That you will vote in this election for Sen. Kerry is sufficient to the purpose of a Popular Front, in my view. But it pains me somewhat to see any appreciable number of persons on the left who do not realize the need for this tactic today, and it is impossible for me to view the actions of Wrecker Nader as anything but an objective assistance rendered to the worst elements of reaction in our polity. If the left does not learn to clench together into a fist, it will continue to see its fingers broken one by one, and the worst of our enemies in complete control of the situation....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[MadHound]

15. Well friend, it is like this

If the Democratic party would once again become responsive to us left wingers, you know, the traditional base of the party, then we probably wouldn't be fleeing in droves. As it is, we've been kicked to the curb in order for the DLC to pursue a more conservative, corporate agenda. This process has been ongoing for the past twenty five years, and many many of us have been trying just as long to reform the party from within, to know avail. Yet every four years, our allegiance is demanded, our vote is expected, because "who else ya gonna vote for lefty, the 'Pugs? HAHAHAHA". Well guess what, many many of us have become tired of the same ol' same ol'.

Many of us just stopped caring about politics, throwing a curse on both of the parties, hence the record breaking group of non-voters in our country. And some of us went out and found third parties to work with. And with the Democrats driving away an ever increasing number of people, the ranks of Nader, and the ranks of the Greens have swollen to the point where the pose a threat to the Democratic party, if nothing else than in a spoiler role. FDR found himself in much the same position vis a vis the Socialists in his first re-election run, and what did he and the party do? Co-opted a couple of Socialist planks and made them part of the Dem platform, hence, we got Social Security and Unemployment Insurance. Thus we see how a third party can bring about beneficial changes to the body politic. It is sad that the current Dems won't do the same as FDR, but they are instead hell bent on going ever rightwards in a vain effort to attract swing voters. Perhaps they will learn after repeated defeats, let us hope so for their own sake, otherwise they will go the way of the Whigs.

[The Magistrate]

17. There Is Something To That, Sir

But there are a couple of points about the centerist drift that need to be remembered. First, money is essential to mass political action, such as a national party must engage in. A variety of reforms, from civil service to reduction of party disciplines available to party bosses, have shut off just about any sources of money besides donation from the wealthy. It does seem to me one of the real hopeful signs of this current election is the rise of grass-roots funding through electronic means, which seems to me to offer a real prospect of a new source of major funding, that might well reduce corporate influence. Second, large portions of the left have rather read themselves out of the mass political process, by taking on the role of moral scolds and anti-patriots, rather than of reformers and upholders of the interests of ordinary working folks. This makes identification with the left problematic for any political figure seeking, as any who wishes election must, votes in the center and its right as well as its left wing, for many there are alienated by what they perceive the left to be.

Nor does it seem to me there are any particular planks of the splinter parties that offer much benefit by co-option in the present circumstance. Those on corporations and trade have the most promise, but cannot be adopted without a real source of alternative financing to back them. That may develope in future, but is not yet present, and the populace is not too stirred up yet on the corporate matter, though trade has a sound footing.

"War requires funds, you know."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[MadHound]

19. You're correct friend, sad to say, but money is the mother's milk

Of politics. That is why it is essential to remove money from the political equation via publicly financed election campaigns and refusing to vote for candidates who take corporate money.

And it doesn't help out matters when we are told that we are "taking on the role of moral scolds and anti patriots" Sorry friend, but that is a truly RW smear job, and I would suggest it would serve you better to not repeat such BS. And if you truly buy into such bogus spin, then I would suggest you go down to your local Green party headquarters and get to know some people there. Like the folks who have served in our military, or as volunteer firefighters, or who are on the police force, etc etc. And try telling them that they are "moral scolds and anti patriots" You will be more than reliefed to know for your health's sake many of us are non-violent people.

And while you may not see any Green planks worth adapting, apparently the American people do. Such programs as universal health care, or a living wage, or of real import now, withdrawl from Iraq. These positions meet with the public approval, yet they are not going to be implemented by a political party that is so corrupted by corporate lucre as the major parties are.

But what the hey, eh? We're only that splinter group of "moral scolds and anti patriots" that is slowly but surely increasing as the Democrats drive ever more of their base and others away. Let me know if that winning strategy works out as well as it did in '00 and '02

[The Magistrate]

21. As The Poet Said, Mr. Hound

Would some Power the Giftie gie us, to see Ourselves as others see us....

Scant point is served by accusing me of succumbing to rightist smear here. Put bluntly, my view on the matter is irrelevant to the fact that that view is a very widely held one: any widespread sentiment among the people, whether it be well or ill founded, cannot be ignored without peril. It is, to some degree, the result of selective reporting in the media filter, but the responsibility for it cannot be wholly divorced from the actions of many leftists. There does seem to be a fatal instinct for the capillary loose among many activists, and those afflicted with it tend to garner the greatest publicity, since, like blood and sex, outlandishness sells. Such staples as crusades against sports team mascots, and the efforts of various language police, do great harm, and bring no benefit whatever.

You can see some evidences for the popular view even here in this forum. Much of the fire in the old "primary wars' was pure moral scoldism: such and such a figure did not express himself on this or that question with sufficient fervor and rigor, and so, he was indistinguishable from the worst reactionary in all matters, and those who supported him were reactionaries as well. Much left criticism of real social ills seems, to many people, aimed at making them feel personally responsible for these great features of society, in a manner akin to a Puritan preacher's attempt to arouse a conviction of Sin in his congregation. Most people will angrily resist an attempt to make them feel personally guilty over things they feel they have no more responsibility for than the weather, and they will not listen to what is said past their perception of that tone in the speaker. How a thing is said, Sir, is often of much greater importance than what it is that is being said.

"I'm going home now. Somebody bring me some frogs and some bourbon."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Green Lantern]

24. Matistrate and Madhound

you have both raised some significant issues regarding "third party" issues. I would, however, as a Green in my own right, point out that my personal goal for the Greens is not to gain third party status.

Food for thought. In this state, Independents outnumber both DP and RP registrants substantially. In point of fact the Green Party has added about 20% in registered voters since the 2002 election. Both the major parties are losing registered voters in significant numbers at the same time.

Election reform is paramount. Money must be removed from the process or all other reform efforts will be futile. Publicly financed elections, mandated, not voluntary, must occur. We will not alter the corrupt practices now in place without removing the money.

I do not see the DP s a viable vehicle for achieving the restoration of effective democracy. With Bush we go to hell on a fast track. With the DP and their pursuit of corporate money, we take a slower, but no less sure, boat.

People here call us blind. I wonder. If we are the blind ones why are the Dems posting here posting on the Democratic Underground?

[BJ]

22. We've long since waded into our Gulf of Tonkin.

It was called the Iraq War Resolution.

And BTW, FDR was very much in the establishment of the Democratic Party. Assistant Secretary of The Navy. Governor of New York.

[blondeatlast]

23. Let me see if I understand what you are saying:

MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME.

They don't give a damn about what I'm wanting...

Good, 'cause I want what's best for the COUNTRY!

What have I missed?

[oasis]

14. Nader and PNACers find themselves in an unholy alliance. If Bush

should win he will continue his mission in bringing democracy to the Islamic world.

For their inadvertent contribution to the PNAC effort, the name, "Nader's Crusaders" will take on new meaning.

[Barret]

16. It's too bad he didn't get on the Texas ballot

There was a lot of talk about arranging vote swapping with Texas nader supporters. (i.e. you're in a swing state? Vote for kerry there and I'll vote for Nader in Texas)

[ButterflyBlood]

18. that's pointless

it made sense in 2000 when he at least had a goal, to get 5% so he'd be eligible for federal funds. but what's the point of voting for him now?

[Barret]

20. <sigh>

It has nothing to do with "what's the point". It's pretty simple.

1. Some people in swing states feel the need to vote for nader.

2. Texas (unless hell freezes over) will be going for bush.

3. Kerry needs to pick up swing states.

Therefore if the nader voters in swing states arranged a swap with voters in Texas (read: a red state) it would help kerry pick up the swing states.