Help. I'm reliving 1972. Tell me why this year will be different.

[Hamlette]

unpopular war, peace protests. I can calm myself by remembering that Nixon didn't start the war and Johnson, who did, had to step down in 1968. Anything else?

I am SO pissed at Schiefer saying Bush got a 6 point bounce in approval I could throw up. I turned off the rest of the early morning talk shows. I can't watch anymore.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. They want the public's perception of the election to be...

That it is close. This creates tension. Tension keeps people in front of their TVs. People in front of TVs see the commercials.

TV exists to sell commercials.

The rest is lagniappe.

[Hamlette]

3. what a GREAT word!

thanks for the answer and the ... lagniappe.

[PlanetBev]

14. All Hail Tandalayo

You hit the nail on the head, girlfriend.

The media is playing with our heads like a kitten plays with a ball of yarn.

[happynewyear]

2. Johnson did not "start the war"

It began under Eisenhower basically.

[Hamlette]

5. yeah, but we associated it with Johnson

mostly because of the Gulf of Tolkin resolution and the escalation. We had about 12,000 troops in Vietnam in 1962, added 200,000 in 1965, went up to 400,000 in 1966 and 500,000 in 1967.

[MoonRiver]

8. What does that have to do with BU*SH'S war in Iraq?

:shrug:

[happynewyear]

16. it has nothing to do with *'s "war"

I'd say find another subject to discuss. Vietnam was another time and another era. There was no MOABs and there was no depleted uraninum - just plenty of Agent Orange, thats all. :grr:

[CaTeacher]

15. I agree--Johnson escalated it.

and he paid for it! Bush will as well--that is a very good analogy!

[shockingelk]

4. This may help: being in the "coalition" is a political death-knoll

Of the 14 nations in the "Coalition of the Willing" which have held elections for their head of state, only one incumbent has won.

First, those that aren't in office due to non-electoral reasons:

Czek Republic - Vaclav Havel - resigned
Georgia's Eduard Shevardnadze - physically forced out of office
South Korea - No Mu-hyun - impeached
Macedonia - Boris Trajkovski - died in plane crash
Lithuania - Rolandas Paksas - impeached

Those that were voted out:

Azerbaijan - Heidar Aliev - defeated
Estonia - Siim Kallas - gone
Latvia - Einars Repse - vanquished
Micronesia - Leo A. Falcam - whipped
El Salvador's Francisco Perez - whipped
Slovakia's Schuster Rudolf - wiped out
Soloman Island's Sir John Lapli - trounced
Jose Maria Aznar of Spain's Popular Party - eliminated

Those who won their reelection bid:

Marshall Island's Kessai H. Note - RE-ELECTED!

[Hamlette]

6. LOL shockingelk. Why no Spain?

[shockingelk]

25. It's there! And it's all true!

I think Japan is having an election soon and Koizumi's days may be numbered.

[AmerDem]

7. It will be different because, ummmm it's 2004

enough of your Chicken Little nonsense!

[happynewyear]

17. yeah I agree with you

We need to live in the NOW and be concerned with what is going on today in the year 2004. Vietnam began over 40 years ago. Why don't we compare Iraq with WWII? Might be a far more accurate comparison historically.

We are on the brink of WWIII IMO. :(

:dem: :kick:

[HawkerHurricane]

9. Some more differences.

Nixon didn't start the war.
Nixon served in the military honorably.
McGovern made a big mistake with his running mate.
The economy was in much better shape then.
The last Democrat to serve is better liked than Johnson.
I could go on.

[union_maid]

11. and the polarization was much more generational

There was a generation gap. Nixon was viewed as the moderate candidate and it was McGovern who was seen as extreme. That's why they keep saying that Kerry and Edwards are "out of the mainstream". That was the beginning of having that work for them. Most of all, though, that election was the beginning of painting Democrats as unable or unwilling to defend this country. This election needs to be the end of that.

[CaTeacher]

19. Didn't Nixon run claiming that he had

a plan to get us out of the war? (The infamous "secret" plan?)

I think he did--which means that really neither one of them was running on a platform of being MORE pro-war. Voters had a choice of 2 people who both claimed that they wanted to get out of the war and have peace (just different plans of achieving it).

Of course Nixon did NOT get us out--but I am pretty sure that he campaigned as if he wanted to.

[BillZBubb]

23. Nope, the "secret plan" was in 1968.

He used that against Humphrey. Nixon did have Kissenger (Dr. Strangelove) say that "Peace is at hand" prior to the 1972 election. Nixon also claimed he was seeking "Peace with honor"--one of those typically brain-damaged Repug claims.

So, in essence you are correct, you just got the elections confused.

[greatauntoftriplets]

10. You're not the only one....

The parallels are eerie.

[Baja Margie]

20. The difference is, basically,

that we are going to win this election - it will be a combination of all us 60's people, most of the Greatest Generation (our parents), our kids, the Latino vote, the Black vote, anyother minority vote, the Union vote, the teacher vote, the veteran vote, the environmental vote, the intelligensia vote, the displaced and hard working everyday people's vote, the undecided vote,the Florida vote, the heart and soul vote of America - and don't you ever forget it, and don't let "them" try to sale you short on anything else. Like Dylan said in The Times They Are A-Changin' -

"...your old road is
rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'. "



xxxooo

[Zen Democrat]

12. But Bush has gotten a bounce in approval ratings. Because nobody's

talking about Iraq any more. The media has wiped it from the top of the news.

No more talk about Abu Graib.

[Smarmie Doofus]

21. Would it really be so bad ....

If Kerry or Edwards actually brought this up. One reason that no one covers it is that the democrats don't advance it as an issue. Presumably don't want to be tarred by the opposition for being "sensitive".

But this is an atrocity, and if it's impolitic Kerry to speak on it, other Democrats should not let it drop (I'm thinking Kennedy, Biden, Barney Frank, etc.)

Best,
Paul

[Pepperbelly]

13. one BIG dif ...

Bush isn't 20+ points ahead in the polls.

[Hamlette]

18. Where can I find tracking polls for previous presidental elections?

I've seen 'em posted here a time or two but I can't find them through google...or I've not looked hard enough.

Anyone know?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. The Big Difference Is Kerry's Not McGovern (nt)

[AmericansFirst]

24. and Bush isn't Nixon....

Bush inherited a country that just had eight years of prosperity and a recession hit on his watch.

The country was not attacked under Nixon and Nixon actually cared for the poor by creating the Food Stamps and Family Assistance(not sure if this was the bill name) Law. Next time Bush cares for those people will be the first time. Nixon also had a good foreign policy compared to Dumbya.

[Hamlette]

26. ummmmmm Nixon and welfare?

the only major welfare benefit under Nixon was SSI (social security to needy disabled individuals.)

Food stamps go back to 1964 (Johnson's war on poverty) and aid to families with dependent children goes back to Social Security Act of 1935. (Cash assistance to the poor.)

(There was a type of food stamps issued as early as 1939, the orange stamps/blue stamps system. Was discontinued in 1943. For every $1 of orange stamps you bought you'd get 50cents of blue stamps. The blue stamps could only be used for food the governemnt thought was in surplus.)