I Don't Blame Obama for FISA

[redstate_democrat]

I blame the co-conspirators in the House who passed this bill and especially Pelosi and Clyburn. I blame FUCKING BUSHNUT and CHENEY for this shit. I CANNOT in good conscience blame OBAMA for something like this like he is the sole cause of this shit. He is but ONE person in the senate and even if he were to vote against it, it would probably still pass due to the UTTER incompetence of our Congress. He is running for PRESIDENT and seeing the hand that the GOP will try to play, he has to appear more moderate on this issue or else the telecoms will POUR money into McCain's campaign and 527s to try to crush Obama. This bill should have never GOTTEN TO A VOTE in this condition. Who's fault is THAT?

What committee was responsible for this bill? Why did Pelosi CAVE IN and allow this bill to reach the floor in the SHABBY condition it is in?

I don't blame Obama.

[midnight]

1. Obama is running for President. He is running on a plateform

of change you can believe in. He is part of the same secretive nonsense he says he wanted to change.

[DrDan]

2. so are you giving him a pass on it?

[redstate_democrat]

7. I'm not giving him a pass, I'm just not blaming him for the destruction of the 4th amendment,

I've mostly been quiet on this issue because I was really not happy with this whole thing, but I realize that this fiasco is not by Obama's doing. If Obama were in charge (of anything in Washington besides his campaign), I betcha this bill wouldn't have seen the light of day in this condition.

I don't give him a pass on his personal responsibility, but I cannot blame him for FISA like so many people are doing.

[DrDan]

16. good - I agree

he has to be held accountable for his vote

[Krashkopf]

25. No he is just standing by and watching the destruction

"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."

-- Edmund Burke

[Steely_Dan]

32. LOLOLOLOLOL!

I was just going to use that quote...thanks. Right on the mark.

-P

[PM7nj]

42. He isn't superman.

He can't do anything about it.

[Krashkopf]

44. BULLSHIT. He could have gone down fighting!

He could have done an actual old fashioned filibuster, refusing to yield the floor until the bill was withdrawn, or until 60 Senators actually had the balls to vote against the NEXT FRICKIN' PRESIDENT!

I am sure he could have found 41 Senators to support him, including Feingold, and Leahy and Dodd and Bingham, if he had ACTED LIKE A LEADER.

THAT would have been courageous. THAT would have been principled. THAT would have been CHANGE I COULD BELIEVE IN!

Even if he didn't win, I think AMERICA would have APPLAUDED him for trying. Instead, Obama sold out his principles, AND OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, just like every other gutless Democrat who voted for it.

This is a very sad day, indeed.

[seaglass]

29. And if he was just one Senator voting for the IWR you wouldn't blame

him for that either, right?

[fascisthunter]

3. Who is Blaming Obama for FISA?

[chimpymustgo]

8. He's not doing a damn thing to stop it. And as the leader of our party - that's abdication of duty

Why should he bend to Steny Hoyer?

[AdHocSolver]

35. C'mon. Obama hasn't even been formally nominated. How is he the "leader" of the party?

[chimpymustgo]

41. How is he not? Unless he chooses to be a back-bencher.

[GodlessBiker]

4. I don't blame him for the bill, I blame him for his vote on the bill.

[NattPang]

5. I don't blame Obama either, and at this point.

He has been getting blamed
since June 20th,
so I've been done with that.
I wonder if he will be getting
most of the blame
after the vote too?
Probably.

It will be The Bush gift
that keeps giving.

[NYC_SKP]

6. I'm giving him a 100% pass on FISA.

Until after he's inaugurated.

Why? Because I have no idea what it's like to run for president and neither does a single bloody member on this board.

After the inauguration, however, there will be hell to pay if he doesn't remove retroactive immunity for telcoms.

:hi:

[redstate_democrat]

9. Exactly. Let's try to get him in office first then we can put the foot down and make all sorts of

demands...and not to mention...midterm elections will be around the corner for our friends in Congress who don't get the friggin amendment up and running within the first 100 days of office.

[jgraz]

34. Wow. I guess that means we shouldn't criticize ANY presidential candidate

Careful, don't say anything bad about McCain!! He probably called his wife a cunt because... well, we really have no hope of understanding. :eyes:

Congratulations on winning the Dumb Post of the Day award. You had stiff competition, but you managed to rise above average stupidity with this one. :toast:

[NorthCarolina]

10. Obama could have shown himself to be a true leader on this issue

I don't think it would have taken much to explain the real problems with this legislation to the American people. Instead, he calls it a "compromise" that he will vote for and then dismisses it. I will vote for Obama because the alternative is unconscionable, but a yea vote for this FISA legislation which he indicates he will give is simply a step to far for me.

[redstate_democrat]

11. This is the thing.

I'm expecting all kinds of lawsuits against this law just based on the constitutionality of it. Right now, I think Obama is going along because he knows this thing will not stand up in a court of law.

There is a deliberate attempt her by the Bush administration to conceal their crimes. This just adds to the evidence of their obstruction of justice of the crimes they've committed.

[NorthCarolina]

12. Then he should say that, otherwise everything is just "speculation" and not "fact"

eom

[redstate_democrat]

15. But then he would be showing his hand, so what good would it do?

He may as well just vote against it then if he is gonna tell everyone he doesn't plan to uphold the law once he is in office and will have his attorney general criminally prosecute those in violation of the existing law "back then", have the solicitor in general sue Congress (if possible?) and totally tank the immunity part and the newest overreaching aspects of the law.

[jgraz]

36. Then why not LEAD? Once again, we cede the entire fucking debate to the fascists.

Most people think this election is just about putting a (D) in the White House. But it's about putting a (D) in the White House by winning the debate about where this country needs to go.

I've had enough of candidates with stealth agendas. If Obama isn't strong enough to take a stand and win, then we're well and truly fucked no matter who wins the election.

[chimpymustgo]

13. Turley on Countdown said, calling it a "compromise" INSULTS us. It's a CAVE-in.

And inexplicable from the LEADER of our party.

[NorthCarolina]

22. Of course it is. Spin it any way you want but it'll still come up smelling like shit

eom

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

14. Gotta agree, the House and Senate Dem leadership is the suck...

What a letdown.

[NatBurner]

17. pretty much

he's still just a senator

i suppose he's gotta leap tall buildings in a single bound for these ppl

[Breeze54]

18. He promised to filibuster it with Dodd & Feingold and reneged.

I'll wait to see how he votes tomorrow or will he vote at all or "present"? :shrug:

He's really got himself in a pickle, hasn't he? Why?!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. He can't filibuster.

There aren't enough votes.

[MH1]

21. There you go using logic and facts again.

Don't you know that's not acceptable at DU?

[Breeze54]

24. Seems to me there's been a lot of 'filibustering'....

and many are against this BS assault on the Constitution.

[jgraz]

38. No one knows how many votes there would have been had Obama filibustered

If he had flown back from his campaign and stood with Feingold and Dodd, I bet we'd have got more than 25 votes in support of the filibuster.

[NattPang]

20. You've been asking

since June 20th.
Will you be asking
forever more?

Perhaps McCain will
vote NO on FISA,
just so that you
can vote for him.

[Breeze54]

23. I've been asking what?

I've been posting to vote NO on this FISA BS!

He should be voting NO!!! :grr:

Keeping track of my posts, are you?

Cool!! :hi:

[jgraz]

39. Shh... don't interrupt the haiku reading.

[Skip Intro]

26. I don't like it when anyone plays frisbee with my constitutional rights.

Especially when they are asking me to hire them to protect those very rights.

Bigger than politics. Bigger than any politician.

My rights are far more important to the concept and practice of freedom, far more important than any politician or political party.

To give, simply give, our rights away, any rights, to any poltiician, on the promise that he or she will "give them back" is about as over the rainbow as I can imagine.

[redstate_democrat]

28. Are you in Clyburn's district? If so, why don't I hear you placing most of the blame on him?

He is, after all, the Majority Whip and is actually more responsible for this bill than Obama.

[Skip Intro]

30. Obama is responsible for his own vote, man. Sheesh.

He in effect has a bully pulpit, if he wants it.

He could make a stand here for privacy rights.

Yeah, all who support this are culpable.

Doesn't diminish his role, tho.

[Maureen1322]

27. This is his chance to show leadership. Another Democrat letting us down.

[barack the house]

31. That is exactly how it is. Democrats are handicapped by information flow and

entrenched intrests.

[AdHocSolver]

33. Obama is still a Senator and subject to pressure from Democratic Party leadership.

I suspect he is not happy voting for this bill. However, the party leadership is ever willing to sell us out for its own interests. Like it or not, Obama is not in a position to "lead" on anything at this time, except for his own campaign.

We saw certain elements of the party willing to stab him in the back, and those people are still around behind the scenes. Stop judging Obama on everything on a level of "purity" that a "saint" could not pass.

The real culprits here are the Democratic Party leadership, especially in the House and the Senate. They are so "clever" and "calculating" that the right-wing couldn't have screwed the country so badly without their "cooperation".

[jgraz]

37. Newflash: Obama IS the Democratic Party Leadership

This bill would not have come to the floor had he opposed it.

[Breeze54]

43. Reid is against the FISA bill Immunity!

He is the Senate Leader, isn't he?!

[Eric Condon]

40. I think we can all agree that Obama's position on FISA is superficially a letdown, but makes sense

Think about it: taking a stand and opposing the bill would make us all feel better, but it wouldn't change the fact that it's going to pass because of overwhelming support from spineless colluding Dems. Obama knows this, and he also knows that in the event that the Bu$h administration were to conveniently throw together an "October Surprise" just in time for the general, that voting against this bill could come back to haunt him. He's already openly admitted that he doesn't like the bill, so I think that's a pretty clear sign to his supporters to just go with him on this, but don't worry, because this kind of shit isn't gonna fly in his administration.