We're electing Obama, not his family

[ruggerson]

Ok, I'm sure I'll be seen as Scrooge on this one, but I hate the Oprah-ization of our culture, especially as it relates to politician's families.

I didn't care about Tricia Nixon getting married, when I was a kid.

I didn't care that the Ford kids got a dog. (although I do remember one of them as being kinda hot - and he never got married, hmmmmm...)

The Carter kids were so uninteresting, I don't even remember them.

I could not have cared less about Chelsea Clinton when her dad was President.

I don't care about Laura Bush or either of her daughters.

And, honestly, I could give a rat's ass about Michelle Obama or the two kids.

I think it kind of demeans us when we demonize Republican families (as many of us have done for eight years with the Bushies) and then gush all over Democratic ones.

It makes us appear exactly like the Freepers.

Barack's daughters are cute American kids, as are the Bush daughters.

It should end there, but unfortunately, it doesn't.

I just want Barack Obama to be elected President. I'm voting for him, not his family.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Start some more threads about it.

Really emphasize about how you don't care.

[ruggerson]

5. nah, one will suffice

[mcctatas]

2. Feel better now?

:yoiks:

[Connie_Corleone]

3. When you have people out there thinking he's the anti-christ and unamerican...

it's good to show that he's not that much different from everyone else.

It's called campaign strategy to get people to know more about his biography.

[Imalittleteapot]

41. You are absolutely right.

Besides, what's the harm in showing his cute kids or in exposing that the Obama's have "Family Values". Good strategery.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

48. 10-4...Plus, how someone treats their family says alot about them

Exhibit A: McFlipFlop's treatment of Wife #1.

[Eric Condon]

79. And wife #2, lest we forget. nt

[woolldog]

60. yup, that's the point.

He's being demonized in certain circles. It's a great way to show that he's just a normal guy and not a "scaaary black man." :scared:

This is so obvious I've gotta think the OP is trolling....

[JoFerret]

97. Yeah. I know

But it's still crap. What gets me is the people who believe this stuff as anything but a cynical and exploitative ploy.

I am sure he loves his family and etc. But whatever.

[sandnsea]

4. The Bush twins were drunks

A bit different. I would have loved for them to be role models, I think Jenna has taken a few steps in that direction.

The Kennedy's paying so much attention to their kids is what clued me in to the idea that kids (me) are important too.

To each their own.

Pretty petty to have to start a thread on it.

[ruggerson]

6. "the bush twins were drunks"

example A of what I'm referring to.

[Lisa0825]

9. In their defense....

I was a party animal at their age too. Plenty of people saw me stumbling drunk at college parties. The difference is that they did their partying in the public eye. Had I been a public figure, I hope I would have had the good sense to be more careful.

I think it is good to show Obama with his family. It helps connect with people.

[sandnsea]

46. Oh hey, I'm no innocent either

And I'm sure plenty of people wagged their tongues about what I was up to. I never expected they'd stay drunks, and I don't think they have. I think Jenna is really trying, in that "clueless" sort of way. Hopefully she won't settle for being a socialite. We'll see.

[Lisa0825]

53. LOL! I'd rather she be a drunk than a socialite!

:rofl: :beer:

[TahitiNut]

11. If "Jenna has taken a few steps in that direction" then ...

... it's only because of a sobriety test. :shrug:

[Ian David]

7. Did I miss something? We get to vote for new children for Obama? n/t

[sourmilk]

22. He can have one of mine.

Actually, I'll give him BOTH, if he wants them.

[rug]

8. I can't wait to see the poll results on the family pet.

[chascarrillo]

10. So, you demonize the families of Democratic presidents and yell at us for demoinizing kinfolk of...

... Republican presidents.

Hunh.

[ruggerson]

13. huh?

[chascarrillo]

16. One of Ford's kids "kinda hot." Carter kids so "uninteresting" you don't remember them and vulgar...

... language towards Michelle Obama and a couple of kids who aren't even in their teens. Rather disgusting, I think.

[ruggerson]

17. wow, you really have a problem

that's quite a stretch

[JANdad]

20. Can you point to the "Vulgar language"

?

[chascarrillo]

25. " And, honestly, I could give a rat's ass about Michelle Obama or the two kids."

[rug]

28. He didn't!

:wow:

[ruggerson]

32. I couldn't give a rat's ass

about any of them. Which is the point of the OP.

Nor really about the fact that you routinely distort what I write.

[NattPang]

37. I care. I care about children

even if they aren't mine.
Guess I'm strange and weird
that way.

[ruggerson]

42. I care about the children that are still impacted by Katrina

and the pets that I care about are those that are in shelters.

I am not that interested in the press obsessing about politician's children or their pets.

Which they do frequently, while ignoring the children they SHOULD be obsessing on.

[NattPang]

44. I care about all children.

Even those that
will be living
in the White House.

I don't discriminate.

[ruggerson]

45. you're much more compassionate than I

I'm forever hoping that we will get our priorities straight as a society. I guess I should just give in to the vacuous nature of our culture.

[NattPang]

51. part of our priority should be about the Children.

If Barack Obama is loving and caring
with his own family,
and they are likewise with him,
perhaps it demonstrates
that he will be loving and caring
when making decisions about other people's families,
for those who may have doubt.

Maybe it also helps
those understand that
he isn't this elitist
as it was said about him.
He is just a normal man
with a normal family.
I think that seeing his daughters
and how unpretentious they are
confirms this.

I see McCain and his family
including his mother all of the time.
His wife is constantly in tow.
His daughter has a blog.

I saw Hillary Clinton and her mother
and her daughter
and her husband constantly.

[Windy]

55. I think that seeing the family and their interaction humanizes Obama. He's a great dad from all

indications. It says a lot about his character.

[chascarrillo]

39. Then why did you care about the First Lady of Iowa when she endorsed Edwards?

:shrug:

[JANdad]

50. Well I'll be damned...

If THAT is the worst that is ever said about these two girls, I will be more than surprised...

But go ahead and act all sanctimonious...

[uppityperson]

70. "rat's ass" is vulgar talk? Huh. Don't read my message then.

rat's ass
mouses's ass
donkey's ass
elephant's ass
monkey's ass
ass's ass
pig's ass
cat's ass
dove's ass

I suppose not giving a mouse's ass means you don't care as much since it is smaller, or does it mean you care more since it is smaller and you could give a smaller ass rather than a bigger ass?

[mitchum]

67. The poster also "forgot" the children of the first bush...

y'know- the chimp, Jeb, Marvin, Neil- all corrupt pigs who were feeding at the public trough.
I guess they are off limits also.

[KingFlorez]

12. I don't think anyone takes it THAT seriously

I hardly think people will be voting for Obama because of his family. This is not a serious issue, it's just a part of culture.

[NattPang]

14. I think many voters

Don't think like you.
They want to know
the family of the
Nominee, as it reflects
on the Nominee's judgment.

If the Obama girls were
unruly little snots who
said snooty things and
acted like they were
entitled, it would reflect
on the type of parenting
their parents were doing.

[RazBerryBeret]

15. Once they are in the WH

the whole family will be acting diplomats for our country. like it or not. First ladies and kids do have roles in domestic and foreign relations. Consider hosting a dinner party at the WH with Dmitry Medvedev (and family????). who do you want opening the door to greet them? giving them a tour of the white house? etc...Cindy or Michelle.

[chascarrillo]

18. Did you care about Hillary Clinton?

[ruggerson]

19. not until

she ran for the Senate in 2000.

[chascarrillo]

23. How about when she started working on health care reform in the early days of the presidency?

And if Clinton was using her experience as First Lady as a campaign point, isn't that relationship worth caring about?

[chascarrillo]

80. No answer. No surprise.

[ruggerson]

84. because you're irrational

you read things that aren't there into posts that people write. You're paranoid and angry. No possibility of having an adult communication with you.

[chascarrillo]

86. Yeah, I'm sure that's it.

Hey, by the way, did you care about Elizabeth Edwards?

[ruggerson]

90. The OP was about families

meaning children. The only two First Ladies mentioned were Laura Bush and Michele Obama in the context of their private roles as mothers.

And since Obama himself has decided the interview was a mistake, I find it amusing you are still trying to defend it.

Children of politicians should not be trotted out to feed the unhealthy gossip industry that masquerades as journalism in America. That's my opinion.

If you disagree with it, have at it. But don't mischaracterize it or push whatever bizarre agenda you may have constructed in your brain about what other people's intentions are.

[cags]

21. Whoo I agree... but the first lady does have some influence.... I vote for Oprah!!!

[ecstatic]

26. huh? nt

[Kdillard]

24. I think you are being very naive

when was the last time this country elected a single President. Why do you think a certain Florida Governor just announced his engagement to a woman with a child. Care to explain the obsession with the Kennedy's and their kids.

[rug]

27. Why not vote for the candidate with the most kids?

[Ian David]

29. You mean Vito Fossella? n/t

[rug]

30. No, that would only lead to endless recounts.

[NattPang]

33. I remember when John Edwards had his kids

with him a lot,
and I think they said
something.
Was he breaking
an unspoken law as well?

[rug]

38. Who said what unspoken thing?

Not to pry.

[NattPang]

47. The GOP. They criticized John Edwards

for having his kids on the trail
with him and Elizabeth,
and taking them out of school.

[Speck Tater]

31. For a large percentage of the people,

it's very important for them to see Obama as a "real" person. They need to be able to identify with him and his family before they will feel comfortable voting for him.

It's nice that you are so enlightened as to be above and beyond such social considerations, but most humans are not so lofty as that, and need the human touch for the comfort it provides.

[The_Casual_Observer]

34. You're on thin ice around here on that one, the Obama family is cherished

by the Obama support.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hedgehog]

35. I think we get a measure of the candidate by how she or he relates to his immediate family.

[redstate_democrat]

40. utter crap.

This sort of statement demonstrates a lack of ability to connect with people on a human level.

[BklynChick]

43. I agree with you in theory but they are just irresistable

:loveya:

[Undercurrent]

49. The way a candidate relates

with their family tells a lot about their character. It is an integral part of who they are are as a whole person.

Personally, I love seeing happy, functional families, and so do most Americans. It feels good.

I'm also thrilled to with the idea of having young children in the White House again. Especially these two cuties!

[JoFerret]

52. With you 100 per cent

While Obama 's personal life may have minor relevance I could not care a flying bunch of grapes about his wife and kids. I am sure they are quite fabulous and he loves them. Whatever. And to all those who want to fetishize them....aaargh!

[Windy]

56. What is it about former heavy duty hillary supporters and this animosity toward Obama's family?

I don't get it.

[ruggerson]

57. On my part

there is no animosity towards them whatsoever.

I have an animosity towards the media and our culture, which has very screwed up priorities.

What's your animosity towards former Hillary supporters in that you would make blanket statements like that?

[JoFerret]

61. Separation of church and state

and separation of candidate and media generated compulsory family values

- both are important to strive for.
(Probably forever a lost cause. But it wasn't always so. Maybe there is some hope.)
Why do we insist that candidates have to peddle their families in this way? Quite revolting.

[JoFerret]

58. I have no hostility towards anyone's family

(including yours).
What is it about focusing on the candidate and not the heavy duty claptrap that you don't understand?

And what has Hillary got to do with it?

[JoFerret]

63. One possible answer to your question

(to the extent that it deserves any recognition).

- perhaps "heavy duty"- (whatever that means) "Hillary supporters" (whoever they might be) are rather beyond the puerile adulation of a candidate on the basis of kinship.

[woolldog]

68. I don't get it either.

They are so bitter! Sad...

[H2O Man]

74. Good question.

Many of Senator Clinton's supporters were interested in discussing what Bill Clinton offered, both to her campaign and possible administration. And they were right to do so.

I think that Michelle Obama has a lot to offer this country. Obviously, she is not an ex-president, and there are other differences between her and Bill Clinton. But I view her as having the ability to communicate important messages to the American public during the Obama presidency.

People certainly have the right to choose to focus entirely upon the candidate, if they want. And others have just as much right to listen to Michelle Obama's campaign speeches, and have an appreciation for them.

[ruggerson]

82. No, it's not a good question

it's a mean spirited, irrational and incorrect jab.

And the person who asked it can't even respond to my answer.

Of course First Ladies serve a function. Their roles have grown and evolved as the country has. My inclusion of Michelle above was meant to reference her private role as a mother of two young children.

First children are another story entirely. I think our celebrity culture pays far too much attention to this type of thing, going back many years and getting progressively worse as our society has become more obsessed with fame and celebrity.

As I've written above, politician's children receive far more attention than do children still impacted by Katrina, or children of fallen American soldiers or children with incurable diseases.

Our priorities as a nation are completely out of whack and very unhealthy, and, interestingly enough, apparently Senator Obama agrees with me and has decided the interview was a mistake.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6473704

[H2O Man]

85. It is yet another example

of where we disagree. I think it was a good question. You do not. We are both entitled to our own opinion.

The fact that the role of First Lady can be significant is one of the areas where we may have some agreement. Though our views are not necessarily the same on all of the reasons that role may be important, we are each entitled to our own opinion on this, too.

Three things may come into play on the disagreements that various DUers have on threads such as this. The first is that people often take things personally. I note that the person who asked the question was not responding to you, but rather, to another DUer. There may well be a personal history between those two, and/or you two. I am unaware of if this is the case, and have no real interest in that. I was simply responding to a question I consider valid, as a result of my own experiences on DU.

It is possible the person "can't" answer you. It seems equally possible that there are other possible explanations: perhaps that person hasn't seen your question, or perhaps their silence is the answer they consider most appropriate.

Second, I think that a lot of DUers use words differently, and that there is confusion and misunderstandings as a result. I would never say that Obama "agrees with me," unless he and I had communicated with one another. Instead, I would say that we hold similar opinions on an issue. But I do not think it's a big deal if someone says something in a different way, so long as I understand what they mean. But some of my errors on DU have resulted from my believing that someone means something different than they actually do. In the case of the post we are discussing, I think it means one thing, and you think it means quite another.

And third, regarding the Obama children, some of the differences in opinion may be the result of different experiences. I tend to agree with you about it being better to not have the media focus on interviewing the Obama children. Still, one of the things I like about the Obama family is that both parents take an obvious interest in their children, and have what appears to be a great relationship with them. I am, of course, subjective on this, as I have two young daughters myself. But I think that one of the most important areas that Michelle Obama will lead a national discussion on as First Lady will be family values. And I think that her having the strong family that she has will provide her with a platform to build trust among her audience, and to thus expand on this societies' narrow definition of "family."

We view the world -- including DU -- very differently. That's not a bad thing. I hope that you enjoy this day.

Peace,
H2O Man

[ruggerson]

92. I have no history with the poster whatsoever

at least that I can remember.

But, you are correct, perhaps he was responding belligerently to someone else who he/she did have a prior confrontation with.

And I agree with you that much of what occurs on DU becomes personalized, in that if one individual writes something, and one has a prior dislike of things that person has written, there is often a subjective (and visceral) response, whereas the exact words, if written by another, might not provoke such outbursts.

All told, I still think the poster above was baiting former Hillary supporters and negatively generalizing about them in a fashion that only serves to foster division and needless animosity.

Which is why I don't think it was a "good" question.

Certainly not in any instructive or positive sense of the word.

[DarienComp]

54. For what it's worth...

Malia and Sasha, at 10 and 7, are more intelligent than Jenna and Barbara ever were.

[BlooInBloo]

59. Do you think there's even a single person who doesn't know that?

[ecstatic]

62. By your logic, it's a waste of time to meet a friend/spouse's family

Sounds rather anti-social, among other things.

[JoFerret]

65. We are not marrying Obama

But electing him to be president. If he is married to a harridan, harlot or a saint - I don't care.

[Duder]

64. True, we're electing Obama...

But we can also look forward to children in the Whitehouse.

[billyoc]

66. Like it or not, that kind of silliness gets votes.

I think it's absurd, but I think "American Idol" is absurd as well. :shrug:

[barack the house]

69. Yep, I try to avoid it if I can. They are not relevant to country's future...

It should be policy only in an ideal world that is part of their credentials after all.

[JI7]

71. i think Obama is a better father than Bush based on seeing his kids

and how they are compared to Bush's kids . you probably wont see Malia sticking out her tongue like Jenna did and Malia is still a kid.

[retread]

72. A general election is all about image. n/t

[sufrommich]

73. There is an awful lot of gushing on DU

about Obama's personal life. I don't remember seeing like minded posts about John Edwards young family.Some of the threads idolize to the point of sounding like a fan message board for a teen idol. I just ignore them and move on.

[H2O Man]

75. That's odd.

I've read a lot of very positive things about John Edwards' family on DU. Some of my favorites included posts here by Elizabeth Edwards.

[sufrommich]

78. Obviously, I'm not referring to every post

written by or about family members. I don't remember any posts in regards to the Edwards family either going on about the way they greet each other( The Dap), threads wishing a happy birthday to one of their kids or what kind of dog they should get.

[rox63]

76. You are free to not care

Meanwhile, I still think the Obama's are a lovely family, and Malia and Sasha are cute as buttons. :)

[rug]

77. He agrees.

"I don't think it's healthy and it's something we'll be avoiding in the future."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6473704

[ruggerson]

81. Glad to see that he agrees with me - he's got a better take on this whole thing

than many folks here at DU do, evidently.

[mtnsnake]

83. bingo

K&R!

[The Backlash Cometh]

87. Barak will be elected,

and then we will begin to mount our defensive against him, as he continues to slide to the right. I predict he will not get a second term if he goes too far right. I predict Edwards will be given a second chance. Don't you all wish today that you had supported him back when?

[wildflowergardener]

88. your comments

<And, honestly, I could give a rat's ass about Michelle Obama or the two kids.>

Interesting how this is the line you use to talk about Michelle Obama and their kids. This jumped out at me - there seems to be some animosity towards them - why not just say I'm not interested in them?

Maybe other people do "give a rat's ass" about them though I wouldn't ever put it that way. I am sure you care about things other people don't care about. Not that you'll care but I think it says alot that Barack had the sense to marry a intelligent strong woman like Michelle, and has raised what appear to be well adjusted kids.

I do think it would be best for them to be kept out of the limelight (his kids) so they can have more normal childhoods - as normal as can be expected when your father is running for president.

Meg

[ruggerson]

91. Read post #57

[wildflowergardener]

93. ok

I thought after I posted, maybe it's just that I don't use phrases like that (a rat's ass) myself - that maybe you did not mean it in the way it sounded to me. It's just not something I'd say, so it perhaps jumped out at me more than others.

I do agree that the media should not concentrate on the kids so much, and they should be able to lead as normal a childhood as possible. I do think they are cute, and find myself interested in them, even though it's better for them to stay out of the spotlight - who can resist a cute kid. I didn't like some of the things said about Chelsea Clinton in her teenage years - certainly glad I didn't have the spotlight on me during those years. They did say on Olbermann that the press is not allowed to take pictures of the kids during things like their soccer games, etc - that Obama is at and that they've respected that.

editing to add - I do think that it is fair for some attention to be given to Michelle. We know, from Clinton that the first lady can have influence on the president and it is possible she would play some role, as Hillary Clinton did. Also how a candidate treats there wife (or ex wives) does say something about their character.

Meg

[ruggerson]

94. I was remiss

in referencing Michelle and Laura Bush in the OP, without making it clear that I meant that First Ladies should not be public fodder only in their private roles as mothers and wives.

Obviously, our country has a long history of public First Ladies (and hopefully, in the not too distant future, First Men) who are ambassadorial faces for their spouse's administrations.

I should have been more specific in the OP, which I dashed off as the thoughts jumped onto the page, and did not recalibrate or edit for content.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

89. I do care about Cindy McCain using her money and influence

Such as (illegally) flying him around in her corporate jet for campaigning.

I also think it's relevant that he lost his temper at her in public and called her an ugly name. It speaks volumes about his anger management skills.

I also think the American public needs to know about how McCain used his position to intimidate and fire the man who blew the whistle on Cindy's drug theft.

Sometimes, families are relevant.

[krawhitham]

95. A lot of Rethugs seem to be posting at DU these days

lets find any reason to bash the candidate, ANY

divide and conquer, that is what the Repugs want and the are getting it

[blossomstar]

96. So very well said.