Obama Just Voted To Strip Immunity

[berni_mccoy]

How does that make you all feel?

[GarbagemanLB]

1. Changes nothing unless he votes against the whole bill.

[NatBurner]

2. heh

[babylonsister]

3. Heads are exploding as I type. nt

[berni_mccoy]

5. Heh, as you predicted last night :)

[merh]

17. You know it doesn't matter to "some" - there are those that just

want to bash and those that want to believe the worst.

Personally, I am glad DU has little influence, the purists are depressing and so unrealistic.

[berni_mccoy]

22. I understand the frustration here. I've been in the shoes of many of the 'purists'

I've been a strong vocal proponent of impeachment since the Iraq War started. But the time of frustration is over. The time to elect a Democrat to undo all the damage Bush and his Cronies like McCain have caused is at hand. People need to focus on the big picture right now which is getting a Majority in the Senate and getting Obama elected. This bill is simply political defense and it will not impact the outcome of this election. But the election will impact the longevity of this Bill.

[merh]

35. I've been a very vocal proponent of impeachment, the crimes of

this admin have been something I have personally witnessed and have affected my life more than I could explain. What so many are realizing about the DOJ I was screaming at the top of my lungs years ago. Our only hope is to change the guard, to get someone else into office, he hasn't been as contaminated as the others, I have hopes. I am bothered that so many are trying to undermine his win, they can bitch at him when he is in office, right now he is just a senator trying to get there.

[trthnd4jstc]

48. The Constitution requires Check and Balances to be preserved

Members of Congress, as well as the Pres., and others all take oaths to protect the Constitution. Sen. Obama took such an oath also.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

56. Stop your bitching. I get so sick and tired of ya'll bitching and whining all the time!

OBAMA DID UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION. He voted against immunity which protects citizens against abridgements against the 4th Amendment. A vote FOR FISA restores the FISA Courts which requires that the government obtains a warrant BEFORE they spy. Not having a FISA Court (read: oversight) guarantees that Dumbya can break the law.

Why is it so difficult to understand this.

It wasn't necessarily the FISA bill itself that was the problem; it was IMMUNITY!!

[trthnd4jstc]

59. I have a right to bitch. Our Nation has gone down the path of fascisim

I fought for this Nation. I pay more in taxes than 60% of the population. I strive to be noble and perfect. I do not lie or steal. I expect the Constitution to be protected. I expect Politicians to behave nobly, and honestly. Part of the problem of my fellow citizens is that they are not more involved in politics, and are not involved in their communities.

When more people get involved, it will be ugly, unpleasant, and uncomfortable. We have to be strong enough to have room for others. If I criticize your g-d, get over it. He is not my g-d. He is a man running for President.

This president has violated the law, and the Constitution. Most Democrats are doing nothing. The Failure of the Democrats and the Republicans to protect the Constitution is a failure of these politicians to uphold their Oath of Office. How much is the Campaign Paying you. And if you are on the Payroll. Wouldn't that be a bit Nazi-like for you to want to shut me up? Wake up America! We are in Crisis! Economically, Morally, and Politically.

Peace.

I will not surrender my Humanity to the pressures of this world. We all need to seek to be the best that we can, all of the time. Sen. Obama has come on the wrong side of the Fisa Immunity Bill. Sen. Obama is better than Sen. McCain on the issues of assisting the majority of Americans suffering under the Crisis. We all have a right to criticize our public officials, occasionally this can effect public policy in a positive manner.

[Divine Discontent]

60. nice rant! thank you eom

[trthnd4jstc]

65. Wow, how you treat a fellow citizen.

My thoughts are minimized as a rant.

[Divine Discontent]

67. you said you have a right to BITCH in your comment - that's a rant. relax. eom

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

66. Your bitching is directed at the wrong thing. You should be complaining

about the 17 DemoCRAPS who just sold us out!

[trthnd4jstc]

68. 17 n.t

Included were Sen. Clinton, as well as yours truly.

I think that I am in Man love with Sen. Fiengold, and Leahy.

[Divine Discontent]

69. lemme guess - Bill Nelson's in that list! totally guessing, but I bet I'm right!

:eyes:



ON EDIT - I went and looked, of course I was right. But Claire!!!??? goodbye to her VP dreams...

[SwampG8r]

87. god almighty i try not to dislike anyone i havent met

but bill nelson makes me ashamed to be a democrat sometimes
what a lowlife POS he is
and that turd is from my home town

[CreekDog]

93. and some decent judges, appointments and a good attorney general would do a lot to change that

i don't see any viable way of getting those things except for Obama right now.

[CreekDog]

92. K&R your post

if i could. :hi:

[enough already]

72. If by 'purist' you mean 'someone who supports the Constitution'....

....then call me a purist. I'm very disappointed in Obama and ALL the Democratic senators who kissed bush's ass on this disgraceful bill.

[Ian David]

4. Fuckin awesome, man! n/t

[DevonRex]

6. Great. Most of them will ignore it, though. nt

[SidneyCarton]

10. Of course they will

They are in their endless death spiral echo chamber, ultimately determined to be right at all costs, even if that cost is the ultimate disaster of a McCain Administration.

[DevonRex]

31. And take a look at post #26. nt

[berni_mccoy]

13. KABOOM. The Sound of Heads Popping.

[DevonRex]

32. Many are preventing their heads from popping by quickly

spreading other garbage. Look at #26.

[SidneyCarton]

7. He did what he promised us to do.

How refreshing.

Now, had he promised to walk to Europe on the waters of the Atlantic, or part the Great Lakes I'd be worried, but his political judgment remains sound.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

82. HE FILIBUSTERED!

WOW! HE PROMISED TO FILIBUSTER THIS BILL!!!!! I missed it though. Can you put a link up wherein he stands on the senate floor and talks endlessly and disrupts the vote to make a point?

:eyes:

[Diamonique]

8. He has always said he would vote to strip immunity.

But the problem is... everyone knew the sucky Senate would vote that amendment down, and the final bill will include immunity. Obama has said that he'll support the final bill... with reservations. That's what has people upset.

[bunnies]

15. Shades of the IWR vote debate...

"One vote didnt change the outcome".

[dflprincess]

85. Yet Wellstone had the spine to stand up and vote against it

even though his one vote didn't change the outcome and even though he was told it would be the end of his career. But, he said in the end he had to live with himself. He got a big bump in the polls after he stood up to Bush.

[Ichingcarpenter]

9. And Webb voted against Obama, Boxer, Clinton...... etc.

I'm glad he's out of the race for VP

[blondeatlast]

11. I gotta run an errand, but I smell fresh, buttery popcorn; what to do, what to do?

Ah, the hell with it--there's room on the sofa!

:popcorn:

Edit: Thank you, President Obama (I really like the sound of that...)

[cliffordu]

14. YUMMY!!

:popcorn:

[DevonRex]

16. Move over and pass the popcorn, please. I brought the iced latte!

Ahh. Nothing like popcorn and iced latte in the morning. :)

[cliffordu]

12. Excellent. Now the trolls are going to have to be offended at his being on television with

his family or some shit.

[babylonsister]

20. 'They' were offended last night...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6471493

[polmaven]

44. I thought that piece was FANTASTIC!

Those are two very smart children, and charming as all get out!

[babylonsister]

51. I did, too. Next thing you know, Obama will be chastized for

breathing incorrectly. :eyes:

[polmaven]

57. Uh oh!

There's a correct way to breathe? In ----out---- Isnt' that right? Have I been doin' it wrong???:shrug:

Uh Oh!!!!!!!!

:hi:

[Gman]

18. The bill will pass with or without Obama's vote

he'll get a pass on it.

I wouldn't be calling it a pass but for his statements a couple of weeks ago in support of the bill and his having to explain on his website. He will be able to say he voted against immunity and/or the entire bill and have it both ways.

In any event, if it helps him win in November, fine.

[kentuck]

19. That's common in the Senate...

Vote for or against an amendment and then vote for the bill. Then you can tell your constituents that you voted against it if they ask?

[DevonRex]

21. We need some more recs here! I did it. nt

[Thrill]

23. Who is that Obama is talking to on the floor now?

[yellerpup]

24. Makes me feel validated, berni.

I trust him to do the right thing.

[DevonRex]

25. And, as predicted, they're ignoring it completely. nt

[Captain Hilts]

26. He's a duplicitous politician, like most of them on the Hill.

But I'm certainly glad he changed his mind on that issue.

[DevonRex]

29. He ALWAYS said he would try to get immunity removed. You're

just deliberately spreading falsehoods at this point. There is NO WAY you could have been ignorant of that fact.

[Zodiak]

40. Sorry Mookie

This is exactly what he said he would do.

In his first press release on this he said that he did not like the immunity provision and would work hard to get rid of it, failing that, though, he said he supports the compromise because it is the best bill we could get.

I do not agree with the last part, but that was his promise.

[Captain Hilts]

45. Yes, it is, but he took a circuitous route to get to where he came from.

It's smart politics, actually.

[DevonRex]

47. No, he stayed exactly where he was. Didn't move at all. There

was no "route", circuitous or otherwise.

[Captain Hilts]

55. I see where you are coming from, but he used...

'shim' language to blur things a bit. His stance hasn't changed, but the way he speaks about it has. Style counts in these debates.

I'm not a generic Obama trasher - his stand on Iraq has not changed - but he speaks generically at times to avoid taking too strong a stand. Turley's take on it was interesting.

[Zodiak]

76. I am not an Obama trasher, either

But I disagree vehemently with this FISA bill.

Let's hope that John Deans's analysis is the plan.

[DevonRex]

78. That's what I hope, too. And of course you're not a trasher.

You know the facts before you post.

[followthemoney]

84. Can we all just stop play acting all this anger.

I know most Democrats really love Bush. Sure, we have said some bad things about him, but that's just politics. No harm done.

It's just about winning and when the game is over all will give up the pretense and get along like a couple of kids in the play yard. Five minutes after all the bawling is done it's time to play again and that five minutes might as well have been two weeks ago.

Bush is not running for president so that 23% approval rating is so out of place and inappropriate. It's time we move on and pretend we hate somebody else now. Like Iran. That could work.

But leave Bush alone. He has really been a great president and that dirty old rag of a constitution doesn't deserve a second glance.

It's time to get behind the Democratic leadership and make friends with Bush. I'm sure he'd forgive us if only we'd ask. Let's all pitch in to make his last few months the happiest so he can leave office with good memories.

I think I am being ironic. Irony is so hard to distinguish these days.

[Ichingcarpenter]

27. A Man of his Word... How refreshing

Now about the Democratic Senators that voted against it?

They should be targets for change.

On edited I nominated this thread

[DevonRex]

30. Yep. Target the ones who voted against removing immunity. nt

[Eric J in MN]

28. The whole bill is rotten.

Section 503 stops state governments from enforcing their own privacy law.

The bill also allows the federal officials to tap into domestic servers without a warrant.

[aquart]

81. Yep. Rotten as the Patriot Act.

Do either of these anti-democratic monsters ever sunset?

[Bluerthanblue]

33. I'm glad- and I'm not surprised.

He's doing what he said he'd do.

peace~

[DevonRex]

34. Yep, he said he would work to strip immunity and he did. 17 dems

voted FOR immunity. They need to hear from us.

[wildflowergardener]

36. against?

How do we find out who voted against immunity being taken out?

Meg

[foo_bar]

37. here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6474529

[wildflowergardener]

38. Thanks

I see Claire McCaskill disappointed me again.

Meg in St. Louis

[DevonRex]

39. Ken Salazar disappointed me, too. As usual. He will hear from

me AGAIN on this issue. He totally pisses me off sometimes.

[foo_bar]

42. basically "the usual suspects" plus Inouye (minus Hillary or Schumer perhaps)

Red/purple state Dems voted Nay to a fault, and blue state Dems didn't (with the exception of Kohl, Inouye and Feinstein (who sort of represents southern California and/or the military-industrial apparatus)). I wish there were some repubs in the Yea column though, you'd think with their "libertarian" bloc they could find one guy who supports the idea of the Constitution.

[Straight Shooter]

63. McCaskill has always been very much in favor of telecom immunity.

Check the archives on www.talkingpointsmemo.com

[blogslut]

41. Correction

He voted YEA for all three of the amendments.

All three. ;)

[Ichingcarpenter]

43. Well, some around here owe an apology

or some crow.

[blogslut]

46. I wouldn't hold my breath

If you get that apology, let me know.

[Diamonique]

50. We'll see. The vote for the whole (fucked up) bill is coming up.

He said he will vote for it, unfortunately.

[PurityOfEssence]

49. Well, good; although it doesn't conclusively prove my point, it does make one think...

If we had all just sat back and said nothing, how would he have voted? The simple answer is that we don't know for sure, but know there's a chance it could have gone the other way.

Frankly, this is a good example of putting some leverage on a candidate to keep him steering a true course. The net result may be that he thinks twice before appeasing the reactionaries, and that's a good thing.

[DevonRex]

53. He ALWAYS said he would work to remove the immunity provision.

He did not need to be persuaded of anything in this instance.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

52. He did the right thing. He kept his word by fighting against immunity.

That's a start. The bill itself isn't really the problem. It restores the FISA court system. Now Dumbya MUST obtain a warrant. I don't see anything wrong with that. Could've been written better, though.

Please keep in mind, however, that:

1. The bill can be amended to make better sense.
2. The FISA court restores oversight mechanism. I'd rather have that than no oversight at all which is what Dumbya and his criminal outfit wants.
3. The bill may or may not withstand judicial scrutiny.
4. The Immunity deal will pass but it will not withstand judicial scrutiny because it violates the Separation of Powers and Checks and Balances.

[Demi_Babe]

54. EXCELLENT post and I concur

[AntiFascist]

58. Obama said beforehand that he supported Dodd, et al, and their efforts...

to remove telecom immunity from the bill, but the liberal media I happened to be watching conveniently left out this fact. It was their preconceived opinion that this was a lost cause. I guess they got their wish.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

61. That's why I was so baffled by the negative reactions from the Liberal bloggosphere

Jon Turley, John Dean, most of the liberal talk show hosts et al. I expected the spin and parsing from the Librul M$M but not from them.

Obama has stated repeatedly that he WOULD fight against immunity and made it clear that it wasn't really about the FISA bill in and of itself. FISA can be amended. Immunity, particularly as it pertains to criminal activity cannot. We should therefore be angry with the DemoCRAPS who caved in today.

[AntiFascist]

70. Exactly...

as I tried to point out in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3584093&mesg_id=3584093

Now, did you know that GE is named in one of the telecom lawsuits??


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3562794#3565561

"Under your direction,AT&T is presently participating in a continuing racketeering enterprise with Sprint, Inc.; former and current officials of the executive branch; Jeffrey Immelt; and General Electric."

Maybe Rachel Maddow, J. Turley, and Dan Abrams (who work for MSNBC whose parent company is GE) left out this information for a reason. I always appreciate their liberal stance, but their lack of information on this is very disturbing.

[Divine Discontent]

62. interesting...

can't wait to see the rest of what happens from this, though.

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable

[catgirl]

64. K & R

[Blu Dahlia]

71. oh noes! Need new source outrage! ZOMG

[happydreams]

73. Obama's just covering his political ass. He should have voted against the

whole bill. He should be calling for impeachment of both Cheney and Bush. He should be calling for a new independent investigation into 9/11. He should be railing against these bastards, slamming them, instead he is trying to win through one-upmanship on esoterica.

I don't know what his ultimate agenda is, but I don't like what I've seen so far.

[AntiFascist]

75. Um, he's trying to win an election...

as usual the mass media has way too much control of the information and Obama can only do so much with what he has to work with. He clearly announced that he was supporting the Dodd amendment to the FISA bill. MSNBC and others could have promoted this information, possibly changing the outcome, instead they chose a fatalistic approach making it appear to be a lost cause.

[file83]

88. And that is EXACTLY why he should be leading by example, my friend.

No great leader should play wishy-washy political games during the interview process. Anybody can compromise, but a great leader fights for the cause, and in this case it's the U.S. Constitution. No election race trumps that.

[RedShoes]

74. I'm glad he did the right thing.

[Canuckistanian]

77. Yes, but did he convince others to follow his example?

Because that's a mark of true leadership.

[grantcart]

79. Until victory on November 4th I am not going to 'feel' anything

[davidpdx]

80. Berni my friend, you were spot on

Head exploded....

[madura]

83. Obama is a right winger story should now be on hold - lets talk about his nuts and jessie jackson.

and folow whatever ridiculous bouncing ball the press throws at us like good little nonthinkers

i'm sure there's something Rovian about Obama's nuts.

[LVjinx]

86. And once that failed, he voted no on the final, flawed bill? What a relief!

[chill_wind]

89. Uh.......

You posted in this thread (did you read it?)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3591766

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/07/09/fisa/index.html


If you're being sarcastic by chance, a thousand apologies...

[donheld]

90. Like a Natural Woman

:D

[berni_mccoy]

91. LOL.