Why isn't anyone mention that domestic offshore drilling doesn't guarantee that oil stays in the US?

[zulchzulu]

McCain and others are assuming that people think that the United States has some kind of national oil company that would drill oil offshore and bring it into the United States. Are people assuming that the companies drilling are not multi-national oil companies that would grab the oil and put it on the market and probably sell it to China or elsewhere?

An excellent article lays out how EVEN TODAY that the U.S. has exported record amounts of finished petroleum products FROM THE US even as the gas prices continue to rise:. That's right! We are exporting record amounts of oil found on our own turf overseas NOW.

Critics of the offshore drilling plan noted that the Energy Department released data this week showing that U.S. exports of finished petroleum products, including gasoline, diesel fuel and jet fuel, soared to 1.592 million barrels per day in May.

The exports set a record for the month and were up 31 percent from a year ago. Jim Greeff, deputy legislative director for the League of Conservation Voters, said the export data shows it was "misleading" for the administration or the oil industry to suggest new offshore supplies would reduce U.S. pump prices. "The oil companies pushing for drilling is nothing more than a land grab," Greeff said.

The Bush administration says the United States needs to develop more of its oil resources to reduce its addiction to foreign crude. Exports were equal to about half the 3.204 million barrels a day in petroleum products that the United States imported during May. In May, U.S. oil companies shipped 183,000 barrels of gasoline a day out of the country, even as Americans saw prices at the pump steadily rise.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/7690196

Does John McCain want to nationalize the oil industry? Wouldn't that be "socialist"? How in the HELL would he suggest that we make multi-national oil companies use the oil found in new offshore drilling make it affordable and only for American energy needs?

Obama can simply ask what McCain thinks about oil companies exporting domestic oil in record amounts now and what would he do with the new oil. Does McCain want to make the oil industry a socialist enterprise?

[ellacott]

1. Yes, I want them to mention that also

Most people don't realize that this is going on the world market. Many also don't know about the leases that they already have.

I wish this would talk about this.

That's a good point about McCain and nationalizing the industry. Today ion Morning Joe he was calling Obama a socialist because he wanted to use the windfall profits tax to refund taxpayers. This would be good to throw back in Joe's face.

[zulchzulu]

3. There's nothing like throwing the "socialist" tag back at a Repig

I would frame it over and over that in order for McCain's offshore drilling plan to work, he would have to be A SOCIALIST in order to keep the oil in the US.

Slam that against the Repigs until they whine in the corner.

[ellacott]

4. Very true

I would continue to mention the leases that they already have.

[Puzzler]

22. Yes, you're 100% correct... it would require some "socialist" measures to keep the oil in the US.

We have the same problem in Canada. We export most of our oil... and yet we pay world prices for oil at the Canadian pumps. The way the market works here, is that extra oil drilling (and discoveries) would have to make a significant impact on INTERNATIONAL oil level supplies for any prices in Canada to come down.

So if Canada, a country that exports most of its oil pays world prices, then how does anyone expect a potential small increase in US production to have any effect on US domestic prices? The answer is that it won't, and can't, unless the government steps in and regulates domestic oil prices.

[CitizenPatriot]

30. i like! n/t

[Heather MC]

6. I don't know if the numbers are right but I read somewhere

that Canada is the 2 largest distributor of Gasoline to the US
and the Us ships most of it's Oil to Japan. Then we in turn purchase Oil for use from the Middle east and Canada.

How dumb is that system. but the fact is, Companies and Corporation are not in business to keep America Afloat, they are in Business to make money, so if they can make more money in Foreign Countries that's what they will do. Just because someone decides to start a business in the US that grows and becomes wildly successful does not mean or Guarantee that they have to keep their Jobs in the US

That's why I like Obama's plan to give Tax incentives to companies who stay in the US. Now what if Oil Companies decide to keep Oil in the US do they deserve a tax break as well?

[yellowdogintexas]

25. Windfall Profit Taxes were removed for one major reason: OIL WAS $10 a BARREL

in 1988. I know this because when we got married in 1983 it was $40 approx. That was a nice amount to make oil & gas exploration reasonably profitable in a strict income vs expenses kind of way. We got nice little checks every month on the wells my husband had developed for his clients as a geologist, and we had to fill out the little tax forms showing our shares of expenses on the wells and all to reduce the amount we actually claimed as income.

It started dropping gradually but at $20 it was still do-able and we still made money and he still had work.

At $12, he had to change careers and we no longer had side income from the residuals/overrides/working interests. The Wells were taken out of production, essentially

It actually bottomed out around $8 a barrel but for all those years of cheap fuel, the market was flooded with oil from everywhere and domestic oil production was a money pit.

So the Windfall Profit tax was removed to help domestic production, supposedly. It didn't.

The tax was not a tax on profit either. It was an excise tax, actually.
You can go out to read the long deal in Wiki which is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windfall_profits_tax

[Whisp]

2. good post. I hope Obama will give this air time soon

and we can watch that white Mcmaggot squirm.

[Muttocracy]

5. I think Kerry and Biden have both mentioned it - I wish Obama would emphasize it. nt

[zulchzulu]

9. The framing has to be very simple and volatile...

Instead of doing a wonkish explanation about how oil companies export record amounts of oil products now from the US, simply ask questions like:

Does John McCain have a secret plan to socialize the oil industry?

Has John McCain contacted the oil companies to tell them that he wants to socialize the industry?

John McCain has never mentioned how he would socialize the oil industry to stop them from exporting American oil in record amounts.

The point is to make McCain wince at the idea that he's a socialist and have him have to go on the defense on how he would control the oil companies. That would screw around with the financial wonks and would make the oil industry execs on TV attack him.

[Muttocracy]

11. Giving a lease to a private company doesn't mean oil in the hands of Americans. nt

[Canuckistanian]

24. Yes, that's the point to make

Say you do give leases for offshore drilling. Who's going to get those leases? Royal DTUCH Shell? BRITISH Petroleum?

Or even (shudder) CITGO, Chavez's Venezuelan oil company?

You couldn't guarantee that a DROP of oil would remain in America.

[yellowdogintexas]

7. If we are exporting it instead of using it domestically there are most likely two

reasons

1. The particular grade of oil is not useful domestically but IS useful somewhere else. It may be an oil that doesn't convert well to the type of oil needed here. Not explaining it well but I think my husband, who is in the oil field, told me Alaskan Crude is sold to China because they will use it, but our refineries won't/can't. So if you look at the air over there, you can probably see why we don't market it here.

2. More profitable to sell it than try to turn it into something we can use.

Now I don't know how the offshore stuff compares to Alaskan crude, there are so many categories of crude oil and some are just more useful than others.

Think of the differences in various grades of coal and how they can be used which is easier for me to wrap my mind around anyway and it makes sense.

[cottonseed]

8. I think it's weird that the Oil Major's pet political project has now become...

the only way to save America from foreign oil (which we know id does not)? These guys have been trying to drill offshore and in ANWAR for decades, it's been debated back and forth and has never made much headway. Now this pet project of the major oil companies is the centerpiece of McCain's campaign? It's the same sh*t, argue about nothing (ie. the surge), when discussing a much, much larger issue.

[polichick]

10. The gimmick should be exposed completely - little oil, big risks, long timeline, sold on world mkt.

[zulchzulu]

20. I would hope Obama surrogates have this understood...

I would suggest that they use the term "socialize" with McCain's "plan". The way to get the MSM pundits to get into the mix would be to have the surrogates wonder if McCain has socialist plans for the oil industry.

We have to be just as outrageous at framing as they are.

[Nick at Noon]

12. Congress should move to close that loophole

Any oil drilled from the USA or it's offshore waters should be sold only in the USA.

I had only recently read where much of Big Oil's profits come from sending "our" oil overseas. That should be looked upon as the criminal act which it is.

[whistle]

13. Just nationalize the domestic oil industry now!

[Nikki Stone1]

14. Thank you! This is what I have been thinking for the past week.

Our Congress is so weak I doubt they could write a restriction in the bill to keep all oil drilled here in the US. We are becoming a supply colony for China.

[Nikki Stone1]

15. Oh, and please vote this to greatest page if you can

It only needs two more votes.

[Nikki Stone1]

16. OK it needs one more

This is really important. One more recommend would help.

[Major Hogwash]

17. "Drill here, drill now, ship it overseas" - McCain's new slogan!!

If that old man falls off of the stage while he is reading from prepared statements, I'm going to fall out of my chair.

[Nikki Stone1]

18. Could you recommend the thread?

Thanks.

[Occam Bandage]

19. Oil is fungible. A barrel shipped to China is the same as a barrel shipped to Milwaukee.

[Evoman]

21. Lol...McCain doesn't give a shit where the oil goes.

The man is a corrupt, idiotic, piece of shit. If the vast amount of citizens weren't fucking morons, and the news stations weren't evil, corrupt assholes, then nobody would be fooled.

Unfortunately, the reality of the world, is that people are ignorant sheep who listen to and do whatever the pigs ask them too.


Man...there is something about profanity that makes me feel better.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

23. Oil independence is a somewhat odd concept--it is more expensive

The most pressing reason to desire energy independence is if you fear a global embargo, and that's not likely. We import about twice as much oil from Canada as from Saudi Arabia.

(Do we just want to be able to bomb Iran someday without fearing oil supply disruption?)

It's creepy how everyone, pug and Dem alike, talk about independence and price as if they were positively correlated.

Independence may be a good thing, but it can only increase domestic energy prices. (We do not import oil for the perverse fun of doing so. We import oil because that's the cheapest way for us to get oil.)

We rely on computer chips almost as much as we rely on oil, and import a higher percentage than we do oil. Computer chip Independence would probably quadruple the price of chips.

And I would hate to live in a car independent country! I have not driven a non-Japanese car for 30 years, and I'm quite satisfied with that.

Energy Independence doesn't *necessarily* save money or benefit the environment. We could be energy independent by having coal-burning cars, and the US would have a 1/4" layer of soot over it, like 19th century London.

The reasons to support energy independence *for its own sake* are balance of trade, domestic jobs and strength of the dollar. Independence might have side-benefits that more than compensate for more expensive energy, but it would definitely be more expensive.

[bullwinkle428]

26. I try to bring that fact up on every thread on this subject!

McCain has all the sheeple believing that if we stick enough drills into the ground in ANWR and just off of our beaches, there will be a literal geyser of barrels shooting up in the air, with each barrel painted red, white, & blue with Old Glory emblazoned upon it!

[zulchzulu]

27. An ad needs to be done that plays on that notion

Having McCain say "Drill!" and some people screaming "Drill!" followed by a record scratch effect or a boing sound that shows that oil companies have been exporting oil from US soil in record numbers. Then pose the question "do we control international oil companies?" or "How does John McCain expect to control international oil companies?"

[DianaForRussFeingold]

28. K&R"US oil companies are shipping record amounts of gasoline and diesel fuel to other countries. "

US oil EXPORTS up 33 percent over last year!!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3618662

US oil companies are shipping record amounts of gasoline and diesel fuel to other countries.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3612752


edited to add "Big oil companies replacing offshore workers with foreigners who make 1/2 minimum wage." :spank: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3734383

[zulchzulu]

29. Still the MSM remains silent. They are complicit in keeping this a secret n/t