Walt Starr's Research on Bush's fake ribbon hits the News

[Bernardo de La Paz]

The headline is slightly incorrect, I think. I don't think it is actually the "campaign" that attacked Bush on his fake ribbon.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/08/29/wbush129.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/08/29/ixworld.html

Kerry campaign attacks President over 'war honour he did not earn'
By Charles Laurence in New York
(Filed: 29/08/2004)

<snip>

After weeks of denigration of the Democratic challenger's Vietnam war record, Mr Kerry's backers have responded with allegations against the President - including the claim that he was once photographed in uniform wearing a medal ribbon he had not earned.

As polls showed that Mr Bush had edged ahead of Mr Kerry for the first time, a pro-Kerry organisation labelled the President an "impostor" over the photograph, taken in 1970 and discovered in his father's Presidential Library in Houston, Texas.

The ribbon is an Air Force Outstanding Unit Award - which was not awarded to the 111th Fighter Intercept Squadron in which Mr Bush served until 1975, five years after the photograph was taken, according to the group US War Report.

"Why is this fraud important? Because it betrays the Honour Code that every officer learns and carries throughout his or her career," said Walt Starr who investigated the medals for the group. Separately a new book, Deserter, by Ian Williams, a British-born author, challenges the President with details of how he used his father's influence to join the Texas Air National Guard as a trainee pilot, thereby avoiding service in Vietnam, and then allegedly disappeared from his base without fulfilling his duty.

<snip>

[wndycty]

1. Give it up for Walt Starr. . .

. . .as we used to say in college TAKE THAT MOTHEF&*KER, BOOM! BOOM!

EVERYBODY, I MEAN EVERYBODY NEEDS TO FORWARD THIS to [e-mail]. Walt did the hard work, NOW ITS UP TO US TO GIVE IT LEGS!

[Momgonepostal]

2. Way to go, Walt Starr!

[Kahuna]

3. Congrats to Walt!!!

:toast:

[aquart]

4. The headline is so misleading as to be libelous.

Except for the bit about not being about to libel a public figure.

To me, it seems to be trying to make Starr/Kerry equals to the Swifties/Bush.

[aquart]

6. OTOH, GO WALT!!!

[nyhuskyfan]

36. A lot of times...

The person writing the headlines is different than the person writing the story (since the author couldn't know how much space would be needed ahead of time). You run into many cases where the headline seems out of place, due to laziness or misinterpretation.

[DoYouEverWonder]

43. Yes, this was not from the Kerry Campaign

This was a private citizen, who happens to be a Kerry supporter. There's a big difference.

They are trying to make it look like Kerry is retaliating.

[0rganism]

48. I was wondering about that. It ISN'T the Kerry Campaign, it's Walt Starr.

I suspect DU is the shadowy "Pro-Kerry Organization" mentioned in the article

[Nlighten1]

5. The steely fingers of DU justice...

[speedoo]

7. Way to go Walt!!!

Glad your hard work paid off..

[DrFunkenstein]

8. The Best Passage

"Asked about the medal ribbon, a White House spokesman said he could not respond until the record had been checked."

Three friggin' cheers for Walt Starr!!!

[Scorpious_Maximus]

15. WOO HOO!

:headbang::yourock::headbang:


YEAH!!!!!!!!!!

[Malva Zebrina]

18. Hoorah,! hoorah!, hoorah!

And now the White House is going to check the record. What record? A different one than the ones Walt has posted? They have some records they have not released maybe. LOL

Also, that is the first time I have seen a revelation of the publisher of Capital Hill Blue."Alabama is where serious questions arise over whether or not Bush fulfilled his obligations to the Guard," said William McTavish, a Republican, and editor of the Washington on-line political magazine Capitol Hill Blue.

[Booster]

39. Hip, hip, hooray!!! Walt, you da man.

[merbex]

54. Clapping,Clapping,Clapping!!

A great cheer can be heard in here in Massuchuseets!!

[qanda]

I heard somebody mention Bush wearing a ribbon he didn't earn

On C-SPAN this morning. I was like, "Go Walt Starr!"

[UrbScotty]

9. Yeah for Walt Starr!

:thumbsup:

[demnan]

10. Do you think a U.S. paper will ever pick this up?

I did here a woman mention it on CSPAN this morning - but I assumed she was one of us.

At any rate a big :toast: to Walt is in order!

[indyjones1938]

46. n/t

If you all want this story to spread, and hopefully make it into the mainstream US press, here's what you should do:

E-mail the link to the Telegraph story to every Democratic-leaning newscaster you can find. That includes Keith Olbermann, Bill Maher, Jon Stewart, Alan Colmes, Chris Matthews, Joe Trippi, Ron Reagan, James Carville...everyone that you possibly can.

Then, dig up lists of direct e-mail addresses to reporters at all the major newspapers - NYT, LATimes, Chicago Tribune, and so on. E-mail this story to them all. It only takes one reporter at a mainstream paper for the story to go big.

It is critically important that the story be picked up by the Associated Press. Only then will it receive national coverage and the White House forced to respond.

[lapfog_1]

11. I sure hope that

these two issues (wearing a medal not earned, using influence
to bypass normal entry into TANG) grow some legs. They should
both hurt * with the group that was affected most by the
not-so-swift attack... veterans - especially Vietnam vets.

But this needs to get into the talk shows, we need to have
some Vets step up and make the accusations on the talk shows,
not journalists. And it needs to stick!

[wurzel]

12. We have to go to a conservative English newspaper for our news?

I guess we do!

[PA Democrat]

13. Great news! Congratulations to Walt

Doesn't it figure though, that the foreign press, rather than our own domestic "liberal" media would be first to break this story?

[realFedUp]

14. Congratulations Walt

you deserve a medal.

[Frodo]

16. Thanks for the link Professor.

[City Lights]

17. Three cheers for Walt!

:toast:
:toast:
:toast:

And to the cowards in the US media: :thumbsdown:

[wndycty]

19. And to think Walt did this w/o $100,000 from Bob Perry

The truth its affordable. LOL

[Window]

20. Way to go Walt!

DU'ers are the bomb!

[madrchsod]

21. congrats to walt !!!

as we all know-we have to go overseas to get our news...sad isn`t it?

[wurzel]

22. Is Walt related to Ken?? A JOKE!! A JOKE!!!! only a JOKE!!!!

[Onlooker]

23. What great news!

Congrats to Walt Starr. (Any relationship to Brenda Starr?).

At the very very least, the White House will have to try to disprove the allegation and the Swift Boat Liars will have to justify their double standard, and the story about Bush falsely wearing a ribbon will be seen by thousands upon thousands of people.

[npincus]

Not so bad about the title screw-up

Maybe it's not a bad thing that the 'attack' is attributed to the Kerry Campaign... after all, doesn't that make it more likely that the Kerry campaign will be forced to acknowledge and respond publicly? And doesn't that make it more likely to be addressed in our media? Isn't this a good start?

I am crossing my fingers and saying a prayer.

Speaking of the Guardian, I came across a great article about the dirty dealings following Ben Barne's admitting Bush into the National Guard... BTW, this story was reported by the writer, Greg Palast, back in 1999, but he couldn't get the American media to publish it.
I hope we have better luck.

http://www.gregpalast.com/index.cfm

[Walt Starr]

24. Sweet Blessed Holy Mother!

wow

:D

[PA Democrat]

28. Walt , was this your media contact or is there hopefully more to come? n/t

[Walt Starr]

30. Nope, this isn't the guy

I did receive an email from this guy asking me who I was, what kind of group I was, if I was a 527, If I was a Democratic Group, etc.

I answered, "I'm a private citizen."

[PA Democrat]

31. And one great private citizen at that!

Here's to hoping that our own domestic media will follow the lead of their British brothers.

[annxburns]

32. ROTFLMAO

And the one thing they checked is what they got WRONG. The media in action.

Well, at least they printed it, although I think they are probably trying to get ahead of the story by trying to pin it to the Kerry campaign. Irregardless, it is going to sting.

You ROCK WALT

[AP]

40. Reporter's not technically lying, I guess. It's seems the term

the "group" refers back to "Kerry supporters." But the author is definitely trying to pretend that this isn't just regular citizens doing this, but organized peopel with financial backing from interested groups.

I guess that's where the Telegraph shows its conservative bias.

[AP]

41. And what is up with this typo:

"Deserter also claims that Mr Bush failed to turn up for duty in Alabama, an omission which could have resulted in a charge of being absent without leave, or even desertion."

The guy making the claim is "Williams", not "deserter"!

[Tansy_Gold]

85. I think "Deserter" in that sentence

refers to the book, which is titled "Deserter," not the author.

(Sheesh, had to edit my OWN typo!)

[Fridays Child]

71. Walt?

:hug:

[DemBones DemBones]

25. Ah, we are a "pro-Kerry organisation" to The Telegraph.

I like it. :7

Walt Starr, :yourock:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

37. Sometimes it doesn't seem like it reading the threads here, does it?

LOL.

[0rganism]

45. They shoulda seen this place 6 months ago...

ah well, maybe its better they didn't.

[DoYouEverWonder]

47. Then call us by name

and give out our web address. They should give credit where credit is due. I'm proud to be a Kerry Supporter, but I am not a member of the Kerry Campaign. There is a big difference legally, and they are trying to lump use into the same boat as the SBV's and their connection to the Bu$h Campaign.

OH BTW: Congratulations Walt, you rock.

[gollygee]

26. Allllllright!

Let's hope this hits the US media BIG TIME!

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

27. Admiral Boorda (former Chief of Naval Operations) committed suicide

over something liket his being discovered about him. I guess there's no guilt/shame with Bushco here, seeing how it's no problem to have not even have shown up.

Didn't Hackworth break this story? (hackworth.com) Should we email it to him?

[imax2268]

Way to go Walt...!

"Why is this fraud important? Because it betrays the Honour Code that every officer learns and carries throughout his or her career," said Walt Starr who investigated the medals for the group. Separately a new book, Deserter, by Ian Williams, a British-born author, challenges the President with details of how he used his father's influence to join the Texas Air National Guard as a trainee pilot, thereby avoiding service in Vietnam, and then allegedly disappeared from his base without fulfilling his duty.

[NMDemDist2]

29. good idea, Hackworth should be emailed--WALT!

Walt? you should do the honors :)

[snyder]

35. I Agree, Send It To Hackworth

I've not been shy about saying that I don't think this is nearly as important as others here believe it to be, but if Hackworth thinks it's a big deal that would change my mind. He's got rock-solid credibility on things like this, because if he thinks it's trivial B.S. he'll say so.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

38. I'm going to send the telegraph link to Hack at his site's email link.

[Jack Rabbit]

33. Way to go, Walt!!

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

34. Gratuitous Ladies Auxiliary Applause:

[zulchzulu]

42. So will the story expand this week at the GOP Concoction?

I want CNN and MSNBC to run with it....fat chance, but hey, one can dream we have a fair media.

[Walt Starr]

44. I have a feeling it may hit MSNBC some time in the coming week

If we can get ahold of the regulations for the time period.

If it's a rock solid case, I'm sure it will get out in our national media.

Isn't it strange how any allegation regardless of how spurious against a Democrat gets weeks and weeks of play, but any allegation against any Republican must have rock solid evidence to prove beyond even a shadow of a doubt that it's true before it gets an hour of play on all media outlets combined?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

50. Give it time and keep the pressure on, folks.

Keep the letters to the editors going, posts in forums, calls to TV stations and networks, DU media blaster, talk it up in person, etc.

[grasswire]

51. it's the echo chamber we don't have, Walt

Scaife planted pundits all over the place who were willing to advance stories. And then they boomeranged from Drudge to newsmax to the Washington Times to Rush to talk radio yada yada. We just don't have anything like that yet. But we're going in that direction, with the blogosphere as the intermediary between activists and mainstream media.

[gatorboy]

49. How much time do you give the Bushies

before they take the damning photo down from the Bush library page?

[Bimini_Twisted]

52. Front Page Google News Right Now

[bloom]

60. that is very cool

[DoYouEverWonder]

53. We should let the Telegraph know

That they need to correct their headline, now! They are implicating the Kerry Campaign in this, and they know that's not true. They need to correct this before it starts spreading around the wires.



Press Office
Telegraph Group Limited
1 Canada Square
Canary Wharf
London E14 5DT

Tel [phone]
Fax [phone]

email: [e-mail] We can only respond to media queries on this email address and are unable to deal with general requests. If you are a reader, please call 020 7538 7676. We do not receive press releases at this address. Please send them through to the relevant section of the newspaper.

[gatorboy]

55. When this hits the Yahoo page remember to keep it bumped!

We gotta stay ahead of the Freepers on this!

[graywarrior]

58. Hey, we're all the Kerry campaign!

Good job, Walt.

[cynatnite]

56. You Rock, Walt!

:yourock: Way to go! :yourock:

Cyn:)

[American liberal]

57. WOW!

I am truly in awe! Congrats, Mr. Starr, on all your hard work! I may have to do a research paper on how the Web is changing the face of journalism!

Not to take anything away from your work, but the article is sloppy journalism--from the headline to mentioning "moveon.com" (s/b .org). And how democraticunderground is not mentioned by name. And the angle tying Walt's research to the Kerry campaign. As one who has read all the threads here at DU about this, it smacks of yellow journalism.

On the plus side, this is AWESOME retaliation to the swiftboat liars! I am so impressed by this whole process and humbled to be witness to it. From one progressive to another, thanks for all that you do to further our cause and get the scumbag admin. out of office!!!

God bless!

Peace,
AL

[mzmolly]

59. * We need to send this article to all the media * It's getting legs now.

;)

:toast: To Walt Starr!

[Walt Starr]

61. Just to let everybody know, he MADE UP the "quote" from me.

I've written precisely one sentence to the guy:

I am a private citizen who is doing this as an amateur investigative journalist.

In response to this from him:

Hi...as the New York correspondent of the Sunday Telegraph of London, I have been looking at stories on President Bush's service record. I was intrigued to see your peice onj his ribbons. Could you let me know who you are? what is your organisation? Are you a veterans' group, Democratic group, or both?


Thanks, Charles Laurence

I have saved every email correspondence in all of this to cover my butt when the fecal matter begins striking the rotational cooling device.

[Karmadillo]

65. The 7 Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth who were with you at your computer

beg to differ. Well, technically speaking, they weren't actually with you in the same room. In fact, they were in different states, but they were definitely close enough to observe what you were typing. So don't start trying to wiggle out of the quote.

[Spazito]

67. Walt, I was just thinking about that quote he attributed to you...

could he have taken it from your thread here at DU, could it have been an answer from you to a poster as to why wearing an unearned ribbon would be important?

And, Congratulations again!!!

[Rose Siding]

69. Geeze, took some liberties, didn't he

The press is almost as scary as the bushies! The stuff you've written here has seemed very fair, factual, and filled with qualifiers when warranted.

[Frodo]

72. Walt - Did you ever track down the EARLIEST date for the 147th award?

Last I heard there was some question at to whether there was an award in 1966(?).

I bring it up because I've tracked down three (retired) AF pilots who work over at Lockheed Martin (two who served in Vietnam - one who was just graduating as the war ended) who all confirm that Air Force Unit Awards at the time WERE worn (temporarily) by anyone joining the unit at ANY time after the award was granted.

Their recollections vary as to when this rule changed (two said "late 70's early 80's and one said sheepishly "that ribbon is still on my old uniform" but he retired from that unit so he wouldn't have been "out of uniform" though he admits it isn't reflected on his DD214).

[Walt Starr]

73. Yep. sure did. I didn't realize there were two versions of AFP 900-2

The first one covered from World War II to June 1970. The second one covered from June 1970 to June 1991.

The first award covered the time period from February 1, 1965 until March 31, 1966. The unit Bush was in while an enlisted man was also covered in this award, which means if "temporary wear" was in the regulations, we'd see it on his chest in this photograph:



Posted all about it in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=681285

I've got a request in for a copy of AR 35-10 from the time period.

[Frodo]

79. It appears temporary wear WAS a part of Air Force regs.

Your assumption from this photo relies on a couple things.

1) young Bush KNEW and follwed those regs at the time (a stretch - just look at his face).

2) (more importantly) it depends on the time this photo was taken. If that's his father enacting his commissioning then he wouldn't have been IN that unit at the time (I think). He was in some of those units for just a couple weeks - I rather doubt you can pick up medals and then take them back off again in those kinds of timeframes.

But this is just picking nits. I've been satisfied that the Air Force during Vietnam DID require the wearing of unit awards while serving with the unit and that this would not show up on your DD214 (or similar) because it was not YOUR award (unless you were with the unit at the time).

In this case Bush would be fine with the medals pictures.


However - while we're on the subject - didn't you also turn up a citation for another medal (Defense Service?) that Bush is NOT wearing in the photo? What became of THAT?

[Walt Starr]

82. The NDSM only shows up in his military biography

It's nowhere else in the record.

And I reserve judgement on the temporary wear issue until I see the regs.

[Walt Starr]

84. BTW, on the issue of temporary wear.

The AFPC maintains in all communications I've had with them that the AFOUA was never authorized as a temporary wear ribbon. I've tried rewording the question three different ways and it always comes back the same.

So, I've gone around them to some other agencies that maintain the old regulations. Hopefully I'll have an answer next week.

[Frodo]

88. I wouldn't put too much time in to it now.

Now that the story is "out there", the jr enlisted man you spoke to (who probably didn't know his hay foot from his straw foot) will be getting calls from people a little higher up.

[Walt Starr]

90. Actually, it was three different people

and i still want a copy of the regulation.

BTW, I have the ticket numbers on the requests, too.

[Walt Starr]

92. One last thing about Temporary Wear, if true, then he should have the PUC

If Unit Citations were worn temporarily, then he should have been wearing the PUC as well.

The 111th Fighter Intercept Squadron traces direct lineage to the 111th Tactical Recon Squadron. The 111th TRS was awarded the PUC for actions during the time period of February 22-23, 1945 (at that time it was called the Distinguished Unit Citation instead of the Presidential Unit Citation, but it is the same award as the name change occurred in 1966).

That's documented in the same AFP 900-2 AFPAM 36 2801V1 as the citation for the AFOUA awarded for February 1, 1965 through March 31, 1966.

This is further evidence to demonstrate that temporary wear was not in the regulations. If the regulations bear me out on this, then we must look to custom.

[grasswire]

94. hey Walt?

You might want to forward all that mail to a trusted person to keep as a safeguard from any challenges. And you might want to back it up on another disc.

[Walt Starr]

95. It's in several places.

:D

[Spazito]

62. Well Done, Mr. Starr!!!

I just knew it was percolating out there! The issue is now out there, the White House has been asked to respond and they had no ready answer.

It is now up to bush to prove he had the right to wear the ribbon!

[Bongo Prophet]

63. A better British headline would be....

Independent group unmasks "His Fraudulency"

Now let's spend all week talking about it on TV!
Conventions are boring. It's the Sideshows and gossip!

Attaboy Walt!:bounce:

[Christof]

64. Sweet.

I'm happy to hear this. :)

Congrats, Walt! :toast:

[WillyT]

66. Way Ta Go Walt !!! - Woo, Hoo !!!

Congrats, and thank you!!!

:toast::bounce::toast:

[underseasurveyor]

68. ***OUTSTANDING***Walt Star***

:bounce: To the "StarMan" :toast: and his patient, understanding wife, Mrs. Star also ;-)
:toast: This one's for her.
That is so great!:-)

[John_H]

70. Where are the freeps? But look on the bright side.

Imagine the sighs of relief their cousins breath every time the freeps get up to create another user name so they can post on a Bush Ribbon thread.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

99. The Freeps think this is totally debunked.

They think that they debunked this. You see ex-Army types ignorant of the differences between AirForce and Army regs, yet claiming Walt doesn't have a clue. I haven't seen a single issue posted there that hasn't been exhaustively researched by Walt.

They also think that the liberal media rushed into print with this and complain that they ignored the Swift boat story for months. Naturally the DU readers / writers have the opposite view. Interesting how both prisms distort.

The freepers think this is no big issue and will blow over or backfire. They also think it is a sign of how desperate Democrats are. Kind of like the posts we see here about how desperate Republicans are.

[Walt Starr]

100. I think this could do very little real damage

however, the story can do something good. It could open up the record to further scrutiny by the mainstream media. If a story like this could go unnoticed by them then there is a legitimate question as to how much they've missed from the reords released.

If nothing else, it could serve to get some veterans employed researching the records because they know how to read them better than anybody else.

[kentuck]

74. DU's ace reporter strikes again !

Congrats Walt ! :)

[DoYouEverWonder]

75. I love this part about the WH response

Asked about the medal ribbon, a White House spokesman said he could not respond until the record had been checked.

What records, I thought the released all of the records? Good luck suckers, trying to get out of this one. W is so busted.

[snyder]

76. Questions, Walt

Looks like Bush was discharged from the 111th on 1 October 1973. The unit citation covered activity from 1 October 1973 through 30 Sept 1975.

1. I'm told that, if Bush was in the unit for even one day, he's entitled to wear the ribbon thereafter

2. When was the photo taken? If we know it was taken prior to 1 October 1973 then maybe there's something to this.

[Walt Starr]

78. Even if the photo was taken ON October 1, 1973, it would not be legitimate

IF he had been a part of the award. The time period covered is from October 1, 1973 to September 31, 1975. Under the regs, the absolutely earliest date the award could have been signed by the Secretary of the Air Force is October 1, 1975.

I'm still looking for a copy of AFR 35-10 from the time period to confirm whether or not temporary wearing of the AFOUA was in the regs at thaat time.

[snyder]

80. Thanks, Walt

[Frodo]

81. Yes and no

He'd be entitled to wear the ribbon, but the photo was taken LONG before that one would have been awarded. Nobody could have known on 10/1/73 that they WERE GOING TO WIN the award a couple years later.


Interestingly, if the timing is correct, it could mean that Bush could go back and pick up that award today and have it added to his records. But that wouldn't legitimize anything we're discussing now.


And technically, if that one day was his date of seperation - I doubt it could be argued that he participated in the mission of the unit (for which the award is granted - not EVERY single individual gets the award - but it IS pretty broad).

[Walt Starr]

83. I believe that was put in the regs for a specific reason

so that slackers could be specifically excepted from the award to sow others that slacking meant they wouldn't be a part of a unit award.

I don't believe those exceptions ever happen very often, though.

[snyder]

86. One More Thing, Walt

Military cultural background. You've done lots of work here, but you haven't yet included context. The media (which never, ever does any work on its own) needs to know how the military actually treats ribbons on a day to day basis. There are regulations, and there is common practice. What's the common practice? The question will be asked.

[Walt Starr]

87. A step at a time

First things first, the regulations from the time period are the most important item right now. Everything in its time. From the sound of it, it was at least customary in some units to wear this award on a temporary basis. The documentation from the regulations is most important, then we can look to custom.

Now, If I were a Republican and Bush was a Democrat, this story would have broken last Saturday night and would have been all that was talked about all week.

[AmerDem]

91. No fooling on that!

They would have this all over the corporate media world!

[spooky3]

77. wow, Walt, take a bow!!!!

[seabeyond]

89. 111th Fighter Intercept Squadron in which Mr Bush served until 1975,

i thought it was oct 1 '73 that bush served until. and that the unit receive that award oct 1, '73 - '75

[Walt Starr]

93. This story is extremely sloppy

and has few facts correct.

[seabeyond]

97. ah, thank you walt

and congrats, but that isnt good either, their sloppiness.

[Walt Starr]

98. At least it's out there.

We'll see what happens.

[Willy Mugobeer]

101. Actually, bush requested discharge from his unit Sept. 5, 1973...

But there's a whole lot of other fishy stuff happening after Bush is suspended as a pilot, and before he gets his discharge papers. See Paul Lukasiak's GREAT work here:

http://www.glcq.com/bush_at_arpc1.htm

[ljm2002]

96. Way to go, Walt!!! Woo hoo!

It's a thrill to see this start to get coverage, even if it is in the UK press.

Just one thing: I notice a lot of people are assuming the article is referring to DU in this paragraph:

As polls showed that Mr Bush had edged ahead of Mr Kerry for the first time, a pro-Kerry organisation labelled the President an "impostor" over the photograph, taken in 1970 and discovered in his father's Presidential Library in Houston, Texas.

I think they are referring to Democrats.com, which had the picture of him on their front page with "Imposter" stamped over it...

Anyway, congrats!